What's the meaning of life, even with God, any God, wouldn't it still be meaningless?

[PRmerger]

But, hey, if it makes you happy, great.

Thanks, but I am very happy with where I am. If being Christian makes you happy, that’s awesome.

I’m curious if you believe that you should embrace truth even if happiness doesn’t factor in.

That is, what if you come to a conclusion about a truth of the world and it doesn’t make you happy?

Do you reject this truth?

Or do you still embrace it since it’s…true…and you’ve declared that truth matters.

(And here the universe of discourse is: truth of an ideological nature. Not truth that’s minutiae, like, how many turnips there are in Donald Trump’s White House garden.)

 

[TheCuriousCat]

And when you follow the truth, you will be happy.

So…either Christianity is true, and Jesus Christ is indeed the 2nd person of the Trinity, or it’s false.

And that’s why you can’t post things like this:

while also saying,

You’re posting 2 contradictory memes.

Imagine if your daughter came home saying, “My teacher says that I should spell ATHEIST correctly.”

And then your daughter says, "My teacher also says that if I spell ATHEIST like this:

ATHIEST

that’s fine, as long as it makes me happy!"

You’d be on the phone with the teacher saying: pick one. Either tell my daughter she is responsible for correctly spelling words…OR tell her to think for herself and she can spell in any manner that makes her feel happy…BUT don’t tell her 2 contradictory things. That’s absurd.

Honestly, I would wonder how I suddenly got a daughter.

I don’t believe that Jesus is the second person of the trinity. I don’t believe that Shiva is a deity, and I don’t believe that Buddha is in Nirvana.

I could try and change everyone’s mind, or I could give up such silly endeavors and let them believe whatever floats their boat. For myself, I choose to follow the truth.

 

[TheCuriousCat]

I’m curious if you believe that you should embrace truth even if happiness doesn’t factor in.

That is, what if you come to a conclusion about a truth of the world and it doesn’t make you happy?

Do you reject this truth?

Or do you still embrace it since it’s…true…and you’ve declared that truth matters.

(And here the universe of discourse is: truth of an ideological nature. Not truth that’s minutiae, like, how many turnips there are in Donald Trump’s White House garden.)

I actually can’t imagine something being true and painful. I don’t think it’s possible.

 

[PRmerger]

Do you believe Elvis is still alive? No? Then I’ll tell you what I’ll do.

If you act as if Elvis is alive, meet with people who believe he is still alive, send letters to Gracelands addressed to him and listen to all his records each day, then if it turns out he is still alive, I will sell my house and give you the proceeds.

Let’s face it, if you are wrong, what have you lost? But if you are right, then happy days!

That’s Bradski’s Wager. Are you up for it?

I’ll take you up on the wager.

You give me all of the evidence for Elvis being alive, I’ll examine it, and then let you know.

(Please note that you’ve made a weird demand of “acting as if Elvis were alive”. That’s not part of Pascal’s Wager, so not sure why you’ve added it here. PW is simply either the impetus to begin looking at the question of God’s existence, or the final impetus to push you into believing in God’s existence, after you’ve studied everything and remain on the fence).

 

[PRmerger]

I actually can’t imagine something being true and painful. I don’t think it’s possible.

How about it being inconvenient or embarrassing?

 

[PRmerger]

Honestly, I would wonder how I suddenly got a daughter.

I don’t believe that Jesus is the second person of the trinity. I don’t believe that Shiva is a deity, and I don’t believe that Buddha is in Nirvana.

I could try and change everyone’s mind, or I could give up such silly endeavors and let them believe whatever floats their boat.

All of the above are nonsequiturs.

For myself, I choose to follow the truth.

And for those you love as well? Yes? You want them to follow the truth even if it’s “inconvenient” or “embarrassing” or…painful?

 

[steve_b]

So that’s a no as in ‘No, I’m not taking the wager’.

If there is nothing to lose and so much to gain, I’m not sure why you wouldn’t.

I’m already full in. As I’m sure you are already full in. We are expecting a far different outcome.

 

[TheCuriousCat]

How about it being inconvenient or embarrassing?

Oh, I believe lots of inconvenient or embarrassing things. I used to wish that everyone else in the world shared my same commitment to the truth, but they don’t. From what I’ve experienced, I’m not very convincing, so I have given up trying. If anyone wants to hear the results of my philosophical inquiry, I’m thrilled to tell them, but I don’t expect to win over any disciples.

 

[TheCuriousCat]

All of the above are nonsequiturs.

And for those you love as well? Yes? You want them to follow the truth even if it’s “inconvenient” or “embarrassing” or…painful?

Nope, don’t care.

 

[TheCuriousCat]

All of the above are nonsequiturs.

That phrase you keep using. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

[PRmerger]

Oh, I believe lots of inconvenient or embarrassing things.

So you need to retract the thing that you keep self-refuting.

You ***don’t ***believe that it’s fine to believe in something if it makes you happy.

You just believe, as Catholicism proclaims, that you should follow the truth, even if it is inconvenient or embarrassing.

 

[PRmerger]

Nope, don’t care.

Again, just so we can all read this and be clear:

If you had an adult daughter who believed in Santa, and that made her happy and good, you wouldn’t care.

That’s what you want all of us here to read and believe…all while you’re saying that you follow the truth and are very scrupulous about this.

Yes?

I have correctly summarized your position?

 

[PRmerger]

And for those you love as well? Yes? You want them to follow the truth even if it’s “inconvenient” or “embarrassing” or…painful?

Nope, don’t care.

Oh, I believe lots of inconvenient or embarrassing things. I used to wish that everyone else in the world shared my same commitment to the truth, but they don’t.

So…just to be perfectly clear: you have a profound, deep commitment to the truth, but wouldn’t care one iota if your spouse believed in Santa.

Right?

If that’s what made her happy, you’d be all “Nope, I don’t care that there’s no such thing as Santa. That’s what makes her happy”.

(Please be generous to the hypothetical, ok? There is no need to go off on your sexuality and whether you’d have a spouse or whatnot. Try to think in the abstract here.)

 

[TheCuriousCat]

Again, just so we can all read this and be clear:

If you had an adult daughter who believed in Santa, and that made her happy and good, you wouldn’t care.

That’s what you want all of us here to read and believe…all while you’re saying that you follow the truth and are very scrupulous about this.

Yes?

I have correctly summarized your position?

If there was somehow an adult woman in the 21th century that could make her way through our school system and believe there was a magical castle at the North Pole with a magical man who brought toys to all the children in the world without it being the product of a debilitating mental illness that caused her distress in some other way, then sure. I wouldn’t burst her bubble.

I would want to know the truth, but some people don’t. How can you not understand that there is a difference between what I want, and what I want for other people?

But you know what? I don’t actually care. If you want to believe that I’m lying about my position, go ahead. If you want to take a victory lap, and place laurels on your head, and tell yourself you converted me, I don’t mind. If you want to believe that you turned me into an ogre and vanquished me with a spear, go right ahead. Enjoy! Fill your boots.

 

[TheCuriousCat]

So…just to be perfectly clear: you have a profound, deep commitment to the truth, but wouldn’t care one iota if your spouse believed in Santa.

Right?

If that’s what made her happy, you’d be all “Nope, I don’t care that there’s no such thing as Santa. That’s what makes her happy”.

(Please be generous to the hypothetical, ok? There is no need to go off on your sexuality and whether you’d have a spouse or whatnot. Try to think in the abstract here.)

My ex-girlfriend believes that trees talk to her. I have long since stopped trying to persuade her otherwise. When she believed that she was being controlled by wizards, and she couldn’t function in society, I cared then. But the trees? Whatever.

I am a lot harder on myself than I am on other people. Is that really so hard to believe?

 

[Bradski]

I’ll take you up on the wager.You give me all of the evidence for Elvis being alive, I’ll examine it, and then let you know.

(Please note that you’ve made a weird demand of “acting as if Elvis were alive”. That’s not part of Pascal’s Wager, so not sure why you’ve added it here. PW is simply either the impetus to begin looking at the question of God’s existence, or the final impetus to push you into believing in God’s existence, after you’ve studied everything and remain on the fence).

Ah, sorry. It doesn’t work like that. There’s no option to investigate. Pascal’s wager (and Bradski’s) are examples of probability theory, of which Pascal’s was a forerunner. So, as Blaise says, reason plays no part in this wager. You don’t make the bet if you have examined the evidence and then decided that Elvis lives. There would be no point in making the bet. Reason cannot make the decision, so you have to decide based on the potential outcomes. From pensee part III (revised version):

Elvis is alive, or Elvis is not. Reason cannot decide between the two alternatives.

A Game is being played… where heads or tails will turn up.

You must wager (it is not optional).

And as he notes, acting as if you believe will help. So if you find some difficulty in accepting that Elvis lives (and granted, that could be difficult for some people), then you need to listen to those who do believe and : ‘…follow the way by which they began; by acting as if they believed…’

So again, as Pascal himself says, you don’t make the wager on evidence, you make it on the probability of outcomes.

Any takers?

 

[PRmerger]

If there was somehow an adult woman in the 21th century that could make her way through our school system and believe there was a magical castle at the North Pole with a magical man who brought toys to all the children in the world without it being the product of a debilitating mental illness that caused her distress in some other way, then sure. I wouldn’t burst her bubble.

And just to be clear: this is not some adult woman. This is your daughter. Or your sister. Or your wife.

But, regardless, I’m 100% certain that this is false. Esp given your putative profound commitment to the truth.

 

[PRmerger]

If there was somehow an adult woman in the 21th century that could make her way through our school system and believe there was a magical castle at the North Pole with a magical man who brought toys to all the children in the world without it being the product of a debilitating mental illness that caused her distress in some other way, then sure. I wouldn’t burst her bubble.

Look at this story:

online-literature.com/hans_christian_andersen/967/

Given this dedication to the truth you keep professing, I’m quite sure that if you were very close to the Emperor, who’s parading around buck nekkid, thinking he’s dressed in ermine and jewels, that you would take him aside and tell him, “Knock it off, Uncle. You’re actually naked.”



Even if he thought he was the cat’s meow, dressed in finery.

Even if he were the happiest Emperor on the planet.

You’d take your loved one aside and speak the truth to him.

Either that. or you’re not really committed to truth.

You just want happiness at whatever cost.

So, again…pick one, CC. You can’t talk out of both sides of your mouth.

 

[TheCuriousCat]

Look at this story:

online-literature.com/hans_christian_andersen/967/

Given this dedication to the truth you keep professing, I’m quite sure that if you were very close to the Emperor, who’s parading around buck nekkid, thinking he’s dressed in ermine and jewels, that you would take him aside and tell him, “Knock it off, Uncle. You’re actually naked.”

http://supplychainbeyond.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/picEmperors-New-Clothes1.jpg

Even if he thought he was the cat’s meow, dressed in finery.

Even if he were the happiest Emperor on the planet.

You’d take your loved one aside and speak the truth to him.

Either that. or you’re not really committed to truth.

You just want happiness at whatever cost.

So, again…pick one, CC. You can’t talk out of both sides of your mouth.

I guess you missed this post :

My ex-girlfriend believes that trees talk to her. I have long since stopped trying to persuade her otherwise. When she believed that she was being controlled by wizards, and she couldn’t function in society, I cared then. But the trees? Whatever.

I am a lot harder on myself than I am on other people. Is that really so hard to believe?

I do, in reality, let people live believing whatever they want at the same time as always seeking the truth. And before you leap onto the “ex” part of that sentence, she’s also my best friend whom I care about profoundly.

The Emporer wouldn’t be the happiest man on the planet walking around naked. He got mocked and laughed at, remember?

You have had people tell you that the notion of Jesus being God isn’t true, right? They’ve pointed out the inconsistencies, tried to explain that word of mouth isn’t reliable testimony, etc. I myself told you that the concept of God was meaningless, fat lot of good that did. I don’t care anymore. You can believe whatever you want. I would try to stop you from harming yourself. I would stop you from walking down the street naked despite any short term thrill, but if you believe in a god or gods or fairies or angels, you go right ahead. I’m not going to unless I am convinced that somehow I am wrong, but you aren’t me.

But like I said, believe whatever sails your boat. Think I’m a liar? You go right ahead kiddo.

 

[PRmerger]

My ex-girlfriend believes that trees talk to her. I have long since stopped trying to persuade her otherwise. When she believed that she was being controlled by wizards, and she couldn’t function in society, I cared then. But the trees? Whatever.

I am a lot harder on myself than I am on other people. Is that really so hard to believe?

Annnd, here it is folks.

Example # 780708025870 of “Why Theists Read Atheist Posts and Respond Like This”

http://wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws....s/2014/05/doesnt_make_any_sense_anchorman.gif

CuriousCat: * “I don’t care one bit if someone believes something that’s not true, as long as it makes her happy”.*

CuriousCat, not even 24 hours later: *“I tried to convince someone that what she believed isn’t true”.
*
Bye, CuriousCat.

I don’t dialogue with people who can’t get their ideologies straight.

Pick one, and then go with it.