What's with all the anti women threads recently??

[Nimzovik]

I do believe it was because of a woman the Trojan war was started.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I can have fun with all of these.

However I will start with one for now.-

“(You DO realize, don’t you, that the original feminists who claimed the label were Christian and pro-life? If you need to resort to intellectual dishonesty to win the argument, you haven’t won the argument at all.)”

So. Margaret Sanger as indicated by my High Schoolers text book as a Feminsit Icon, was Pro - life eh?


I say! You accuse me of intellectual dishonesty? Ahmmmmmmmm?

Actually, Sanger was very anti abortion, and that’s one of the big reasons that she pushed birth control so hard. She believed that it was absolutely wrong to prevent birth after a life had been conceived.

In fact, it was several decades after Sanger that abortion was integrated in to the feminist causes.

 

[ManOnFire]

…Apparently this is a new thing now.

What’s the deal??

It’s the progressive movement. They’re anti-romanticism and Love of Self. The anti-men or anti-women sentiment is trumped up to reduce romanticism. It’s the pro-Self movement. It’s easier to blame the other side. Turn on the light rock station and you’ll hear Pat Benatar’s “Hit me with your best shot” or “Love is a battlefield” 3 times per day, but you won’t hear Crosby, Stills and Nash’s Southern Cross “looking for that woman-girl,” the type of woman that drives most men wild. Strong, romantic men have kids, which forces men to that moment of Truth when they must decide to please themSelves, or please Others. The strong man offers himSelf up to the Others. The weak, Selfish man runs.

 

[Nimzovik]

Actually, Sanger was very anti abortion, and that’s one of the big reasons that she pushed birth control so hard. She believed that it was absolutely wrong to prevent birth after a life had been conceived.

In fact, it was several decades after Sanger that abortion was integrated in to the feminist causes.

Hello! **Catholic **Forum here! Birth Control is abortion!
Would you like some coffee?

She was a eugenicist of the worst kind.

See here:

the-american-catholic.com/2009/07/20/margaret-sanger-was-against-abortion/

I just do not **get **some people!

From the above link she appears to be quite the **Racist **as well!!

Hey! She is your hero!

Signed Nimzovik, Angry Christian

 

[Nimzovik]

Disagreeing with radical feminism is anti-woman!? How idiotic!

I thought that men’s right would counter radical feminism, but I was wrong since it would only lead to further alienation between women and men.

Well… thats the point isn’t it? Radical Feminism has induced the Men’s Rights movement to coalesce.

It is becoming a matter of self defense. They abort our children which we** -hello! -** helped make. They transform us from fathers to ‘bio daddies’ or worse, to mere ‘donors’. Many of the Feminists view Christian matrimony as *enslavement *despite the role model of St. Joseph. Believe me. We have been changed from 'Father Knows Best" to 'Homer Simpson." I could go on and on… Such is not the core of this thread tho-- or is it?

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Hello! **Catholic **Forum here! Birth Control is abortion!
Would you like some coffee?

She was a eugenicist of the worst kind.

See here:

the-american-catholic.com/2009/07/20/margaret-sanger-was-against-abortion/

I just do not **get **some people!

From the above link she appears to be quite the **Racist **as well!!

Hey! She is your hero!

Signed Nimzovik, Angry Christian

My hero huh? I didn’t know that.

She was in favor of eugenics, it’s true. But she did not believe in killing anyone to achieve her goals.

And she was racist in that she believed white people to be superior. But who wasn’t at the time? Heck, my own grandmother who I loved dearly had some very deep issues with race

But she did not tolerate racism in her clinics or amongst her staff. And she strongly believed that everyone deserved the same treatment and care.

Like any human there was good and bad. She was right on some things and wrong on others. There is lots I respect about her legacy and things that I am thankful for, and other things that I am glad she was never able to get to catch on. But at the very least attack her on honest grounds.

 

[Walking_Home]

AngryAtheist8:

For a bit of context.

In Spiration and I got into a long debate over whether or not women are intellectually inferior (to men) in an earlier thread. With In Spiration arguing the* women are stupid *

position in the thread.

There’s a link to the old thread if anyone is curious:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=530819&highlight=In+Spiration&page=6

Oh I see.** Why is this In Spiration guy still on CAF**?

---

Yea – wondering the same thing myself.

 

[Walking_Home]

TrueLight:

Husbands and wives are indeed to submit to one another.

But can you show me where it says it is not Catholic doctrine for a wife to submit to her husband?

By the way in response to what someone posted before, a husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the Church. To me, that is an obvious huge responsibility.

It is not Catholic doctrine that the wife should submit to her husband. It does not say so in the CCC as explained by its Compendium. JPII spoke of mutual submission.

Yes Paul said that but in what context. We do not have to follow what Paul said literally or always. How could any human being be like Christ at all. We should all, men and women try to be Christ like and if we do, there should be submission to God, mutual respect and the love of Christ in a marriage. That would not mean the submission of one and the domination by the other.

---

 

[Nimzovik]

My hero huh? I didn’t know that.

She was in favor of eugenics, it’s true. But she did not believe in killing anyone to achieve her goals.

And she was racist in that she believed white people to be superior. But who wasn’t at the time? Heck, my own grandmother who I loved dearly had some very deep issues with race

But she did not tolerate racism in her clinics or amongst her staff. And she strongly believed that everyone deserved the same treatment and care.

Like any human there was good and bad. She was right on some things and wrong on others. There is lots I respect about her legacy and things that I am thankful for, and other things that I am glad she was never able to get to catch on. But at the very least attack her on honest grounds.

She was in favor of Eugenics but did not believe in killing anyone? Did you just say that? Isn’t that just a wee bit of an oxymoron eh? I reiterate! You are aware you are on a Catholic Forum - right? You are aware of our principles - right?

Please! Do tell me exactly just what she was *right *on?

She did not tolerate racism in her clinics or her staff? What in the world is this? Have your even read her statement about the aboriginies? Good Grief! Do your research will ya?

I **am **sorry. I feel you have just left the -]planet/-] realms of rationality. At this juncture I feel I must refrain from continuing this discussion with you as it is just not profitable for either of us. We shall just have to disagree agreeably.

Simply put- your statements, IMHO, **clearly **highlight the *nescessity *for a Men’s Rights Organization and a need to politically militate via the democratic process against such dreadful thinking.

Sorry.

 

[Nimzovik]

For those Feminists that claim to be 'problem solvers I would be curious to hear what they say about this site.

mensrights.com.au/Family_Violence_Statistics-Child_Abuse_Australia/The_Feminist_View_of_Domestic_Violence_Vs_Scientific_Studies_1997-Backlash_USA.aspx

If I am violating any rules please feel free to remove this post.

 

[TrueLight]

It is not Catholic doctrine that the wife should submit to her husband. It does not say so in the CCC as explained by its Compendium. JPII spoke of mutual submission.

Yes Paul said that but in what context. We do not have to follow what Paul said literally or always. How could any human being be like Christ at all. We should all, men and women try to be Christ like and if we do, there should be submission to God, mutual respect and the love of Christ in a marriage. That would not mean the submission of one and the domination by the other.

Sorry, I need more than that.

JP spoke of mutual submission and so does the Bible. The Bible also talks of the man loving the woman as Christ loved the Church and the woman submitting to her husband as to the Lord.

Other Popes also spoke of the same, but I guess one can say they were products of their culture.

The sad part is that the the relationship between husband and wife with the husband as the loving leader and the wife as his loving helpmate, is a beautiful thing and does not involve demeaning of women. I would never stand for that.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who don’t understand what it means on both sides, and often those of us who get it, end up on the same side with the crazies.

 

[AthenaC]

For those Feminists that claim to be 'problem solvers I would be curious to hear what they say about this site.

mensrights.com.au/Family_Violence_Statistics-Child_Abuse_Australia/The_Feminist_View_of_Domestic_Violence_Vs_Scientific_Studies_1997-Backlash_USA.aspx

If I am violating any rules please feel free to remove this post.

Data is always good, but it’s important to understand it.

I know from experience how easy it can be to end up with bad data in this area. For example, in my first marriage, my husband would do things that wouldn’t leave a mark, so when the police would show up (because the neighbors called), I could tell them where the bruise was going to be, and I could tell them that he stuck something somewhere that no one should be forcibly penetrated, while he could show them the scratches I had given him trying to get him to stop. So according to the police reports (and if our data were included in the study you link), I was the abusive one.

There are plenty of similar men that are smart in abusing their wives - they know the system and so they make it appear as if their wives are the abusive ones. And then they hold it over the women if the wives try to leave - “I can prove you are abusive; I have the police reports (which he did, and I read them, so he was right). If you leave, I will get social services to take your baby away from you.” So the cycle continued … until he deployed to Iraq and I was finally safe from him.

 

[AthenaC]

So. Margaret Sanger as indicated by my High Schoolers text book as a Feminsit Icon, was Pro - life eh?


I say! You accuse me of intellectual dishonesty? Ahmmmmmmmm?

My mistake - I meant to specifically name Susan B. Anthony by name as an original feminist. She was a Quaker (i.e. a Christian) and pro-life.

And yes, I do accuse you of intellectual dishonesty. I demonstrated the absurdity of your opinions with well-crafted satire , and I countered them with facts (where applicable). But I put money on you continuing to say the same stuff.

 

[AthenaC]

Are you seriously saying men should hesitate to call themselves men? Being a man is something to be ashamed of these days?

Not at all. I <3 men. If you see the pattern of quotes and my responses, most of my post is meant to be read as well-crafted satire in order to illuminate an absurdity.

 

[TrueLight]

For those Feminists that claim to be 'problem solvers I would be curious to hear what they say about this site.

mensrights.com.au/Family_Violence_Statistics-Child_Abuse_Australia/The_Feminist_View_of_Domestic_Violence_Vs_Scientific_Studies_1997-Backlash_USA.aspx

If I am violating any rules please feel free to remove this post.

That site is offensive.

Quite frankly, it is people like you who cause women to instinctively flinch, whenever they hear the word submission. If you need manipulated data to tell you how many women are seriously killed or die because of domestic violence, I feel sorry for you and any daughters you might have or will have.

You can be proud to be a man because God created you to be a man. You do not need to tout men’s rights or demean women to be a man.

I think I’ll save my opinions for the next submission thread.

No way am I going to be arguing on the same side as a crazie.

 

[AthenaC]

Regardless of its roots, the unqualified term “feminist” has become virtually synonymous with being “pro-choice” in mainstream society. I do understand how authentic Catholic women would like to “reclaim” the word, but unless the statement is qualifed by a statement denoting otherwise, generally people won’t understand that one means a feminist in the JPII sense of being pro-woman, pro-life. Indeed, any mainstream feminist will tell you that the very fact that you believe in a fetus’ right-to-life “trumping” a woman’s right-to-choose means that you are certainly not a feminist, and are, in fact, most likely an internalized misogynist!

And they are wrong to claim such, and I will not stand for it. Nor will I sit back and allow the honorable term “feminist” to be co-opted by such.

And JPII would agree with me; he is the one who famously said “I am the feminist pope.”

 

[AthenaC]

Men should hesitate, it is after all a New World. Women are smarter than men, If women ruled the world there would be no wars. Being a man is shameful.

Not at all. Men are fantastic. I am married to one. However, being a man who insists that women should stay in a vulnerable state where men are free to abuse them with impunity is shameful. Unfortunately, there are many traditional-values-type men who really are willfully ignorant of this. I knew that a little shock-value sarcasm wouldn’t really convince anyone who remains so willfully ignorant, but it at least amused me.

 

[Calliso]

Data is always good, but it’s important to understand it.

I know from experience how easy it can be to end up with bad data in this area. For example, in my first marriage, my husband would do things that wouldn’t leave a mark, so when the police would show up (because the neighbors called), I could tell them where the bruise was going to be, and I could tell them that he stuck something somewhere that no one should be forcibly penetrated, while he could show them the scratches I had given him trying to get him to stop. So according to the police reports (and if our data were included in the study you link), I was the abusive one.

There are plenty of similar men that are smart in abusing their wives - they know the system and so they make it appear as if their wives are the abusive ones. And then they hold it over the women if the wives try to leave - “I can prove you are abusive; I have the police reports (which he did, and I read them, so he was right). If you leave, I will get social services to take your baby away from you.” So the cycle continued … until he deployed to Iraq and I was finally safe from him.

Yep so you have to wonder how accurate that site really is? I mean I do not doubt some women are abusive, but like you pointed out some men do know how to manipulate the situation to make it look like the woman was the bad one. So I am guessing that data on that site isn;t really accurate.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

By the way in response to what someone posted before, a husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the Church. To me, that is an obvious huge responsibility.

So a wife is not to love her husband in such a fashion?

Let’s read that entire section of Ephesians again.

 

[Calliso]

My mistake - I meant to specifically name Susan B. Anthony by name as an original feminist. She was a Quaker (i.e. a Christian) and pro-life.

And yes, I do accuse you of intellectual dishonesty. I demonstrated the absurdity of your opinions with well-crafted satire , and I countered them with facts (where applicable). But I put money on you continuing to say the same stuff.

Yep the original feminists were prolife! But people like to focus on the later more radicial feminists and forget all about that.