What's Wrong With Being Christian?

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Mannyfit75:
It’s pretty clear. Matthew 16:13-20. The name Peter means Rock. It derived from the Greek word “Petros.” The Aramaic name for Rock is Kephas.
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The argument COULD be that Peter was meant to spread the teachings of Jesus after He was gone. So the verse “you are Peter and upon this Rock, I will build My Church”, is argued to mean that Peter is where the preaching and teaching by man started from (the rock, the foundation) and the “church” means the congregation (the Christians that follow Christ’s teachings), not religion and beliefs.
That’s just something I’ve heard mentioned several times when the Catholic faith is being disputed as the “one, true religion”.
 
Carefully read the following passages that support Papal Authority:

Matt. 16:18 - Jesus builds the Church only on Peter, the rock, with the other apostles as the foundation and Jesus as the Head.

Matt. 16:19 - only Peter receives the keys, which represent authority over the Church and facilitate dynastic succession to his authority.

Matt. 17:24-25 - the tax collector approaches Peter for Jesus’ tax. Peter is the spokesman for Jesus. He is the Vicar of Christ.

Matt. 17:26-27 - Jesus pays the half-shekel tax with one shekel, for both Jesus and Peter. Peter is Christ’s representative on earth.

Matt. 18:21 - in the presence of the disciples, Peter asks Jesus about the rule of forgiveness. One of many examples where Peter takes a leadership role among the apostles in understanding Jesus’ teachings.
 
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mrs_abbott:
The argument COULD be that Peter was meant to spread the teachings of Jesus after He was gone. So the verse “you are Peter and upon this Rock, I will build My Church”, is argued to mean that Peter is where the preaching and teaching by man started from (the rock, the foundation) and the “church” means the congregation (the Christians that follow Christ’s teachings), not religion and beliefs.
That’s just something I’ve heard mentioned several times when the Catholic faith is being disputed as the “one, true religion”.
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How can you mis-intepret this passage as spreading the Gospel? Jesus said this to Peter:

When Jesus went into the region of Caesarea Philippi he asked his disciples, ‘Who do people say that the Son of Man is?’ They replied, ‘Some say John the Baptist, others Elijah, still others Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.’ He said to them, ‘But who do you say that I am?’ Simon Peter said in reply, ‘You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.’ Jesus said to him in reply, ‘Blessed are you, Simon Peter son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you but my Heavenly Father. And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.’" — Matthew Chapter 16 verse 13-20.

Jesus is not telling Peter to spread the Gospel on this passage. He said he is building the Church, which Peter will lead. Jesus after his resurrection also told Peter to feed my sheep. During Acts, Peter is the first to speak during Penecost. He is also the one who made lead the Council of Jerusalem regarding Judaic Law and the Gentiles who have been baptized. After Peter spoke the Apostles were silence.
 
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mrs_abbott:
The argument COULD be that Peter was meant to spread the teachings of Jesus after He was gone. So the verse “you are Peter and upon this Rock, I will build My Church”, is argued to mean that Peter is where the preaching and teaching by man started from (the rock, the foundation) and the “church” means the congregation (the Christians that follow Christ’s teachings), not religion and beliefs.
That’s just something I’ve heard mentioned several times when the Catholic faith is being disputed as the “one, true religion”.
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First, I am glad to hear that you dusted off some Catholic prayer books. If you have it, I always like St. Francis de Sales Introduction to a Devout Life. Not exactly a prayer book, but great advice on how to pray.

As for the above argument that some make (yes I understand it is not neccessarily yours:) )…

… we have to take the Bible as a whole.

It tells us to be one. And in fact there was only ONE Church, or religion and beliefs for over 1000 years.

It also tells us that the Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth.

Christ only has ONE truth. Yet with the followers of Christ now, there are many truths. It is whitewashed as “non-essentials” yet either one must be baptized to be born again, or not. One truth.

The Holy Spirit will lead the Church in all Truth. Baptism is not a non-essential. It is a basic. So what exactly is the truth of Baptism?

Those who argue the above argument try to sweep ONE truth under the rug. Along with ONE church.

It is not logical, nor is it Biblical. It tries to redefine who a follower of Christ is. It tries to minimize the fact that Denomination DOES matter. Otherwise why would the Bible tell us repeatedly to be ONE Body? Why was there only One Christian body for so long, what, people didn’t argue as much for the first 1000 years of Christianity? It used to be if one was Christian, that meant Catholic.

The argument that basically “religion” is an invention of man, that one just needs Jesus not a particular church, denies the reality of the first 1000 years of Christianity.

God bless,
Maria
 
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Mannyfit75:
How can you mis-intepret this passage as spreading the Gospel? Jesus said this to Peter:

When Jesus went into the region of Caesarea Philippi he asked his disciples, ‘Who do people say that the Son of Man is?’ They replied, ‘Some say John the Baptist, others Elijah, still others Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.’ He said to them, ‘But who do you say that I am?’ Simon Peter said in reply, ‘You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.’ Jesus said to him in reply, ‘Blessed are you, Simon Peter son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you but my Heavenly Father. And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.’" — Matthew Chapter 16 verse 13-20.

Jesus is not telling Peter to spread the Gospel on this passage. He said he is building the Church, which Peter will lead. Jesus after his resurrection also told Peter to feed my sheep. During Acts, Peter is the first to speak during Penecost. He is also the one who made lead the Council of Jerusalem regarding Judaic Law and the Gentiles who have been baptized. After Peter spoke the Apostles were silence.
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Note how I said the argument COULD be and that it’s just stuff that I heard and not necessarily hold true, personally.
 
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mrs_abbott:
Note how I said the argument COULD be and that it’s just stuff that I heard and not necessarily hold true, personally.
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No, I don’t think that anyone that’s actually serious can interpret that in such a fasion especially considering the witness of the Church Fathers.
 
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JSmitty2005:
No, I don’t think that anyone that’s actually serious can interpret that in such a fasion especially considering the witness of the Church Fathers.
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Sorry, my mind is not thinking clearly so can you clarify what you just said here. It’s been a “duh” kinda day. 😛
 
For those of you posting here, check out another thread I started on the Apologetics forum entiled “A Buffet of Misc. Topics”. My friend sent me an email with some interesting questions that I wanted to see if they could get answered and/or explained. 🙂
 
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mrs_abbott:
For those of you posting here, check out another thread I started on the Apologetics forum entiled “A Buffet of Misc. Topics”. My friend sent me an email with some interesting questions that I wanted to see if they could get answered and/or explained. 🙂
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A Buffet of Misc. Topics

Ahh! I am just too slow at typing! Four minutes slower? That is awful!!!
 
Apparently my “A Buffet of Misc. Topics” was too long so I started a new one that says “Know Your Bible” in the Apologetics forum. 😉 I’ll get it right one of these times.
 
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mrs_abbott:
I am currently NOT a practicing Catholic.
The implication is NOT that Catholic’s cannot have a “strong belief” in God. I know some very true, devout Catholics that I admire for their dedication and perseverance in their faith.
I am insulted by the ones who think that they have the right to tell you that if you’re not Catholic, you’re not believing in the right religion.
Like I said, I’m not insulting Catholics because I know a handful that are true Catholics.
I, personally, don’t think that there is one true religion so why do Catholics chastize those who aren’t Catholic for not believing what they believe?
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Errr…Couple “o” thoughts…
  1. Don’t ALL Chrisian Affiliations tell you that if you do not belive their brand you are not beliving the “right” religion?
  2. Truth is Truth no matter what you believe. If someone says they do not believe in HELL…Doesn’t matter. It exists whether you believe it or not.
  3. Christ said “upon this Rock I will build my church” not “upon this Rock I will build a loose affilation of multi-denominational like minded believers”
 
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Nebuchadnezzar:
Christ said “upon this Rock I will build my church” not “upon this Rock I will build a loose affilation of multi-denominational like minded believers”
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LOL!

Good one! 👍
 
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Nebuchadnezzar:
Errr…Couple “o” thoughts…
  1. Don’t ALL Chrisian Affiliations tell you that if you do not belive their brand you are not beliving the “right” religion?
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Correct. Every denomination, for the most part, thinks that their religion is the best. Why do you think that for right now I’m just classifying myself as “Christian”? I’m not really affiliated with anything right now.
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Nebuchadnezzar:
  1. Truth is Truth no matter what you believe. If someone says they do not believe in HELL…Doesn’t matter. It exists whether you believe it or not.
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God gave us free will to chose our paths in this life. He laid out little things, like churches and Bibles to give us some direction. I know those are just the basics and each religion has more specific guidelines to follow to try and get to Heaven.
Nebuchadnezza:
  1. Christ said “upon this Rock I will build my church” not “upon this Rock I will build a loose affilation of multi-denominational like minded believers”
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What does the word “church” mean?
The company of all Christians regarded as a spiritual body, a congregation.
 
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mrs_abbott:
What does the word “church” mean?
The company of all Christians regarded as a spiritual body, a congregation.
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I’d prefer the biblical and historical definition over that of the dictionary. See here:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1456672&postcount=71

The Church is one, holy, catholic, and apostolic. She has St. Peter as her head. She has never changed her teachings and has taught the Truth of Jesus Christ in its entirety from the time of the Apostles. She will continue to do this for all of eternity. As Christians, we must submit to the Church’s authority. We cannot claim to listen to Jesus and not the Church because the Church is the Body of Christ. If we were to try to separate Christ (the Head) from the Church (His Body), we would be like headhunters who have decapitated our Lord that walk around proudly holding up His Head for all to see. I don’t know about you, but this sounds an awful lot like some non-denominational evangelicals that I know. The whole “I don’t need the Church” along with the “me and Jesus” theology is prevelant in Protestantism, but to put it in the words of Pope Benedict XVI, “the individualist Jesus is a fantasy.” And also Pope John XXIII: “It is impossible to be joined to God except through Jesus Christ; it is impossible to be united to Christ except in and through the Church, His Mystical Body.”
 
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JSmitty2005:
I’d prefer the biblical and historical definition over that of the dictionary.
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There’s nothing wrong with the definition you stated. It’s more detailed and explanatory.
The one from the dictionary is where arguments arise due to vagueness and I guess that’s the reason this whole thread started. Some people won’t take arguments or points made from a specific religion’s point of view and rely on basic knowledge for basic faith.
I was just curious how to get around the whole “What does church mean?”, without diving into what some particular religion teaches? I guess it’s not possible, is it?
 
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mrs_abbott:
I was just curious how to get around the whole “What does church mean?”, without diving into what some particular religion teaches? I guess it’s not possible, is it?
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Not really.

I mean even your word use of “some particular religion” urges me to dive into a discussion of how people of our time have tried to sidestep what the Biblical and historical definition of what Church was and tried to pin the word “religion” on it. 😃

God bless and keep you safe,
Maria:)
 
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