What's Wrong With Being Christian?

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john ennis:
It’s all about a sincere attempt to follow the truth, right? God only knows each of our particular degree of “sincerity.”

Seems to me that if a non-Catholic Christian is doing this, he/she is following Christ faithfully. To the degree, though, that they are in fact rationalizing and choosing not to believe or investigate what they suspect to be true (because of pride, selfishness, etc.), then God knows this, and He will be the judge of their faith.

A Catholic, on the other hand, who truly believes that the Holy Spirit speaks through the Church, is bound to be judged on a whole bunch of things that a non-Catholic may not be responsible for.
Too true. God is our Ultimate Judge and knows what’s in our minds, hearts and souls. You hit the nail on the head! 🙂
 
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JSmitty2005:
It seems to me that if a non-Catholic Christian “sincerely attempts to follow the truth” then they will be lead to the Church. 👍
I hope so; I mean, I can’t say you’re wrong. The Holy Spirit surely offers all that is necessary.

I just don’t think we can point to someone and say that they aren’t “sincerely following the truth” just because they aren’t Catholic. Perhaps at the instant of death they are given the opportunity to accept or reject the fullness of truth. I don’t know.

peace.
 
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JSmitty2005:
Also, Mrs. Abbott, I’ve learned some things on these forums. If you haven’t already noticed, I’m usually online from about 7-8 o’clock in the morning until about 10-midnight every day, minus when I’m at class. However, you can’t take everything you here on here as being true. You oughta get yourself a CCC if you don’t already have one. A copy of Ludwig Ott’s Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma would help too. Frank Sheed’s Theology for Beginners is good as well. I’m glad to hear that you’re a former cafeteria Catholic trying to be more faithful and again apologize for my inital reaction. The thing is that if you really want to learn about the Faith you have to read. I used to hate reading, but now I read all the time. If you haven’t already, the Catholic Answers booklet Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth is a good place to start, but it’s certainly just the basics.
I try and talk to a Catholic priest, who’s a good friend of mine, at least once a month about questions and concerns I have, as well as scanning things, like these forums and other sources online, Catholic and non-Catholic.
I need to know the facts to make an honest judgement. Right now, obviously, I have alot of questions that I’m still searching for answers on.
If nothing else, I’m reading my Bible alot more now. 😃
 
With all that said, you should be at least tolerant of Protestants and what they believe if you were, once, a fundamentalist yourself.
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JSmitty2005:
People started to hear that I had gone off the deep end, but were intrigued by my deep interest in Catholicism. I had always been conservative in the political sense but not with much relation to religion. My peers always respected me as an intelligent individual. (WARNING: I’m about to toot my horn.) I was in the “gifted” program since 4th grade, was always in the highest “team” throughout middle school, took honors classes in highschool, and maintained a GPA of over 4.0 putting me in the top 10% of my class. I got a 1390 on my SATs and was my classes VP. I was also involved in groups like the National Honor Society, Peer Helping, Big Brothers Big Sisters, blah blah blah. So, taking all that into consideration, most people that knew me knew that I wouldn’t do something so rash as “get all religious” without doing lots of critical research, scrutiny. This intrigued them and I’ve been discussing religion with my friends lately, one of whom’s father is a pastor. All that I can say is that “all roads lead to Rome” and “the Truth will set you free.” I read my way into the Catholic Church. Because of this, it was hard to actually put my new found faith into practice. I believed intellectually in Catholicism but I still didn’t have the guts to live it. I was…let me just say…not involved with very good things. I had a rough time (and still do) with some addictions that I’ve had for at least the past 5 years. I was without a doubt a moral relativist. After 9/11 I had gotten interested in Christianity but not specifically Catholicism. I was more of a fundamentalist. I didn’t see the use of the Church. I saw it as an unneccessary “in-between” rather than the Body of Christ that is inseparable from Him that She really is. I didn’t see the necessity of going to Church every Sunday nor did I believe in the Real Presence. Sorry that this is all out of whack and not chronological, but I haven’t actually sat down and thought about my conversion this much until now. Anyways, the summer after my girlfriend was hounding me about Catholicism and made a fool out of me, I went to Ocean City, MD with her family. That was just like 2 years ago when there were a bunch of hurricanes. Anyways, there was something brewing out in the Atlantic and the surf was pretty strong. So, I went out with my friend (her brother, who is my lifelong friend…yeah, it’s weird) and tried to boogie board on some distant waves that were forming from a sandbar. We made it out the the sandbar and were able to stand up, but soon thereafter, I was washed off into a rough area with an undercurrent. I tried as hard as I could for what seemed like forever to get back into shore. I wasn’t getting anywhere and I could see that my girlfriend’s family on the beach was getting worried. I started to really get tired and seriously thought that I might drown. So, I prayed. It was the first time in a while. Needless to say, I eventually made it back soon after that. That near death experience, or at least what I perceived to be one, made me re-examine my life, but it still didn’t straighten me out. Like I said, I’m still not completely straightened out, but I’m workin’ on it. Then, this past summer (of '05), a close friend’s brother (he was a friend of mine himself) was killed in a freak dirtbike accident. He was only 14. It could not have happened to a worse family. They were already in rough shape. His parents were going through a divorce and he was even a twin! Once again, this was another wake-up call for me. Finally, last year I went to World Youth Day in Cologne. I have mixed feelings about it, but in the end, I think that it strengthened my faith, especially spending time in those ancient churches in Rome. (Our diocese group went to Rome first and stopped by in Assisi and Padua before making our way up to Cologne.) I guess that that’s about it. Just a lot of different experiences that prompted me to re-examine my beliefs and a lot of learning with a lot of mind-changing. Believe it or not, I used to think a lot like Mike. 😃 Now, I’m debating what I want to do with my life. The priesthood is a possibility.
 
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mrs_abbott:
With all that said, you should be at least tolerant of Protestants and what they believe if you were, once, a fundamentalist yourself.
Tolerant of Protestants? Yes. Tolerant of Protestantism? No. Don’t confuse the two. It’s like the whole “love the sinner, hate the sin” cliche. The Church has never tolerated heresy…ever! Protestantism is false, that’s all there is to it. Also, I was never really a fundamentalist. I just had that mindset to a certain degree.
 
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mtr01:
How about this from the Letter of Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans:
St. Ignatius of Antioch was a student of St. John (yes, the Apostle John) and tradition maintains that he was the same child that our Lord Jesus held in Mark 9:36. He was the Bishop of Antioch, and wrote this letter around 90 AD.
Hmm… where does Jesus teach this? Nothing about it in the Didache which is earlier than this.

And where does John say this?

All it says to me is that by 107, the “church” has already strayed far from the teachings of Jesus into seeking control and power,and into an inflexible hierarchy. .
 
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Talitha:
All it says to me is that by 107, the “church” has already strayed far from the teachings of Jesus into seeking control and power,and into an inflexible hierarchy. .
It is impossible for the divinely instituted pillar and foundation of truth to ever “stray far from the teachings of Jesus.” To say that it did is to call God a liar. And I don’t know about yours, but my Father is not the father of lies.

“To Him be glory in the Church and in Christ Jesus down through all the ages of time without end.” Ephesians 3:21
 
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JSmitty2005:
Tolerant of Protestants? Yes. Tolerant of Protestantism? No. Don’t confuse the two. It’s like the whole “love the sinner, hate the sin” cliche. The Church has never tolerated heresy…ever! Protestantism is false, that’s all there is to it. Also, I was never really a fundamentalist. I just had that mindset to a certain degree.
Just be careful not to start criticizing the person for what they believe. Instead, pray for all the world to convert to Catholicism, since that’s what I’m understanding that everyone “should” be.
 
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mrs_abbott:
Just be careful not to start criticizing the person for what they believe. Instead, pray for all the world to convert to Catholicism, since that’s what I’m understanding that everyone “should” be.
:yup: Agreed.
 
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JSmitty2005:
I got a 1390 on my SATs and was my classes VP.
:rotfl: You guys probably read that and thought: “What an idiot! he claims to have gotten a 1390 on the SATs and can’t even spell 'class**‘s**’ correctly.” At least that’s what I thought when I just noticed it. Haha!
 
JSmitty2005 said:
:rotfl: You guys probably read that and thought: “What an idiot! he claims to have gotten a 1390 on the SATs and can’t even spell 'class**‘s**’ correctly.” At least that’s what I thought when I just noticed it. Haha!

Don’t you hate it when you’re arguing, and you make a typo like that? 😃
 
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Talitha:
Hmm… where does Jesus teach this? Nothing about it in the Didache which is earlier than this.

And where does John say this?

All it says to me is that by 107, the “church” has already strayed far from the teachings of Jesus into seeking control and power,and into an inflexible hierarchy. .
The Church did not stray. I think you completely misunderstood the writtings of the Early Church Fathers.
 
mrs_abbott said:
170 posts later and I think we finally put this topic to rest. :amen:

Haha, I take it that all your questions have been answered. Is that correct?
 
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JSmitty2005:
Haha, I take it that all your questions have been answered. Is that correct?
For the most part. We never stop learning until we die so there will always be things for me to learn.
Since it’s Easter week, I’m making a sincere effort to re-visit the Catholic Church for Easter Mass.
I opened up some prayer books last night that literally had dust on them. They’re Catholic prayer books that I pushed aside a couple of years ago.
Plus, I talked to my priest friend this weekend and he helped me a little bit too.
We’ll just see where life takes me. 😉
 
I think Talitha is talking about the certain belief that immediately after Jesus left the Church strayed and the Apostles taught differently than what Jesus’s original message, which somehow has been discovered by some modern day group.

That is the theory of apostacy which some groups hold which demands an immediate following away so they can dismiss all early Christian writings and stick to their interpretation of the Bible.

This is convenient as it is impossible to disprove from history or early Christian writing as all of it can be considered corrupt. So now we have the Bible which is all they need.

The problem with this is the consideration that Jesus is divine and started a Church. God either did a good job or He didn’t. What they are claiming is that God wasn’t able to start a Church which would endure for more than a few years, even though He said He came to testify to the truth.
But somehow man could mysteriously create the Catholic Church and it would endure for 2000 years, somehow man can be superior to God in creating an organization.
Or did God succeed?

God Bless
Scylla
 
They failed to understand that This Church is the one that Jesus Christ said. “Upon this Rock I will built my Church.”
 
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Mannyfit75:
They failed to understand that This Church is the one that Jesus Christ said. “Upon this Rock I will built my Church.”
They think that the proof of that is vague enough to present arguments.
 
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mrs_abbott:
They think that the proof of that is vague enough to present arguments.
It’s pretty clear. Matthew 16:13-20. The name Peter means Rock. It derived from the Greek word “Petros.” The Aramaic name for Rock is Kephas.

Peter according to Catholic Tradition is the first Pope. Pope comes from the word “Papa” or father, or patriarch. Many Protestant say that the Rock is Christ. How can Christ be talking to himself?

I find that rather illogical. I encourage Protestants to research Christian history and they will find the truth. Many converts who came from Protestant Church change because they show how Sola Scriptura and Sola Fidelis is not Biblical.
 
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