What's Wrong With Being Christian?

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Mrs_Abbott, cafeteria Catholics are all around us, and it does take time as there is sooo much to learn. The Church is 2000 years old so you are not going to have all your questions answered in a day or two.

But I can assure you even when questions lead to questions there are solid answers, you just need to have the patience to look into it. A faith not investigated is just a faith to believe in because you believe. If you have questions keep reading and looking into it.

That is what I did, I kept asking questions and eventually came back to the Church. But it takes time and you will encounter difficulties.

Did I mention there is sooo much to learn? So a quick synopsis, keep reading, ask us questions. Feel free to PM others with questions if they invite you and read all you can that has been recommended. There is plenty of good stuff to learn.

God Bless
Scylla
 
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JSmitty2005:
I read…a lot.
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I meant books but I also read a lot of other things. I spend a lot of time on the net exploring the Faith. Check out the link below for some good stuff. I also subscribe to a lot of magazines like: This Rock, Envoy, Crisis, The Catholic Answer, First Things, Crusade (TFP), and Columbia (K of C). I listen to a lot of tapes too. I’ve done all of this w/in the past year and a half or so. I’ve probably bought close to 100 books in that time, reading most of them in their entirety. I’m sure that you won’t have the time or money to do that since you’re a young mom, but I’d suggest Karl Keating’s Catholicism and Fundamentalism as a good place to start. Also, you may want to read Peter Kreeft’s Refutation of Moral Relativism.

The Catholic Treasure Chest

Catholic Tradition

Fisheaters

Dave Armstrong’s site

Ecclesia Militans

StayCatholic.com

StillCatholic.com

Patrick Madrid’s magazine Envoy

Steve Ray’s writings
 
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JSmitty2005:
I meant books but I also read a lot of other things. I spend a lot of time on the net exploring the Faith. I also subscribe to a lot of magazines like: This Rock, Envoy, Crisis, The Catholic Answer, First Things, Crusade (TFP), and Columbia (K of C). I listen to a lot of tapes too. I’ve done all of this w/in the past year and a half or so. I’ve probably bought close to 100 books in that time, reading most of them in their entirety. I’m sure that you won’t have the time or money to do that since you’re a young mom, but I’d suggest Karl Keating’s Catholicism and Fundamentalism as a good place to start. Also, you may want to read Peter Kreeft’s Refutation of Moral Relativism.
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What made you take the extra time to do all that? I’m just asking because you don’t see people giving that much effort into something like this.
 
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Tietjen:
Oh please Mike, don’t make this an age thing. You’re only 10 years older than I am and we are complete opposites. Our Holy Father is many years older than both of us and do you believe that he would agree with your liberal views concerning the Church. I think not. Age doesn’t equal wisdom in this case. I mean no disrespect and I do respect your postition in this conversation. However, I do not agree with it. Of course I am not an authority in Church dogma, however neither am I ignorant. God bless.
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While I mean no disrepect to Smitty, he is only 18 yrs old. He has seen so little of life, and while he seems fairly educated on Catholic dogma, probably better than I, his posts relating to issues than have history alot older than his 18 yrs, betray his age and lack of life experiences.

Because I’m 50 yrs old means that I’m right on all things, and that I’m smarter than somebody much younger? No, not neccessarily. However, life teaches alot of lessons and the young haven’t seen alot of lessons yet. When somebody disagrees with me that is closer to my age, at least they have been around long enough to have more credibilty.

Again, I don’t mean to put down Smitty and or anybody else who is young. However, I’ve been there and i thought I knew it all too at 18. Boy, did I discover I was wrong as I got older. When Smitty is older and debates somebody half his age, he’ll see what I mean.

I raised 2 daughters who are now 30 and 22. Could be I’m just tired of debating young adults. 😃
 
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JSmitty2005:
He has a habit of resorting to that when we get into little debates. It just tells me that he has nothing else to turn to, no more arguments or valid points. Actually, whenever he appeals to his age it comes off as very prideful. “I’m older than you…you wouldn’t know any better, youngin’” :rolleyes: In all reality, though, if I may be a little prideful myself 😛 , I am more knowledgeable than and can outwit/outdebate the majority of older adults that I know - at least when it comes to Catholicism.
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I’ve usually made my valid point and blown yours away. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge it, or the tone of your response usually betrays your young age.
 
Ok, to sum up the majority of the opinions on this thread, it’s not ok to be Christian if you were once Catholic and supposedly know the Truth. But it IS ok to be a non-Catholic Christian if you don’t supposedly know the Truth yet. Or, it’s just not ok to be a non-Catholic Christian because it’s a heresy not to be Catholic.
Is that all correct?
 
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mrs_abbott:
What made you take the extra time to do all that? I’m just asking because you don’t see people giving that much effort into something like this.
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Well, it was a lot of things. In 7th grade, in my English class, I was assigned to write a persuasive essay on abortion. I had been through CCD and all that jazz but did not know where I stood on this issue. In fact, I didn’t even know what abortion was. All I had to do was see the pictures to know that it was wrong. Also, 9/11 had a big effect on me. I was a freshman in highschool and my world was turned upside down as I’m sure everyone else’s was. I was already at the age where I was searching for what I believed in and that was a catalyst. The Passion of the Christ also had a deep effect on me. However, what really did it for me was my girlfriend. My girlfriend is a fundamentalist and her family is entirely ex-Catholic. (Also, my best friend’s mom, my grandmother, 2 of my uncles, 2 of my great uncles, my second-cousin, and MANY friends are all ex-Catholics.) One day she put me on the spot and made a fool out of me. I’d always been a CINO like you and didn’t have a clue what to say. I most definitely had some anti-Catholic biases (mostly with regard to historical things like the Crusades and Inquisition) and thought like a Protestant when it came to religion (ie. - I had the impression that Christianity was a “religion of the book”), but I had a premonition that this Church hasn’t been around for 2000 years without having some truth to it. I figured that if the Church were really as wrong as people make it out to be that the Reformation would have happened long before the 1500’s. I started searching the net for information and ended up finding Catholic Answers. I didn’t use it that much at first. I also went in to my local Catholic shop and told the owner my dilemma. She suggested Alan Schreck’s (sp?) Catholic and Christian. Being that I basically had the mindset of a Protestant - partially due to poor catechesis and the hyper-ecumenical USCCB as well as the simple fact that we live in America - this book really helped me, but I knew that I needed to go much deeper. The lady at the shop also gave me a copy of Steve Ray’s conversion story. He is a former Baptist. He basically went through a history of the Bible in his conversion story and demonstrated how it was the Catholic Church that organized, preserved, and spread the Scriptures. Of course, that’s not exactly what we’re used to hearing…the Catholic Church gave us the Bible. Anyways, the other tape that she gave me was Scott Hahn’s conversion story. After listening to both of these, I wanted more. I started spending all of my money on Catholic apologetics materials, which really ticked my parents off. They were glad to see how interested I was in Catholicism, but were not totally supportive and they still aren’t to this day. I hope you haven’t gotten the impression that I was raised in a way to foster the views that I currently hold. My parents are without a doubt cafeteria Catholics. They don’t believe in the Real Presence and yet continue to receive the Eucharist. They refuse to go to Confession because they are too proud. They “go straight to God.” And my dad has a vasectomy and my sister is on the pill. Not the ideal Catholic family. I fear for their salvation because they are not even open to anything. Anyways, back to what I was doing with my money. I started buying all sorts of books. I could give you a list of what I’ve read, but many of my books are at home and I’m currently at college. I read Fundamentalism and Catholicism and wanted to be an apologist. I also found some good resources on the net like this refutation of sola scriptura.

(Cont. below)
 
People started to hear that I had gone off the deep end, but were intrigued by my deep interest in Catholicism. I had always been conservative in the political sense but not with much relation to religion. My peers always respected me as an intelligent individual. (WARNING: I’m about to toot my horn.) I was in the “gifted” program since 4th grade, was always in the highest “team” throughout middle school, took honors classes in highschool, and maintained a GPA of over 4.0 putting me in the top 10% of my class. I got a 1390 on my SATs and was my classes VP. I was also involved in groups like the National Honor Society, Peer Helping, Big Brothers Big Sisters, blah blah blah. So, taking all that into consideration, most people that knew me knew that I wouldn’t do something so rash as “get all religious” without doing lots of critical research, scrutiny. This intrigued them and I’ve been discussing religion with my friends lately, one of whom’s father is a pastor. All that I can say is that “all roads lead to Rome” and “the Truth will set you free.” I read my way into the Catholic Church. Because of this, it was hard to actually put my new found faith into practice. I believed intellectually in Catholicism but I still didn’t have the guts to live it. I was…let me just say…not involved with very good things. I had a rough time (and still do) with some addictions that I’ve had for at least the past 5 years. I was without a doubt a moral relativist. After 9/11 I had gotten interested in Christianity but not specifically Catholicism. I was more of a fundamentalist. I didn’t see the use of the Church. I saw it as an unneccessary “in-between” rather than the Body of Christ that is inseparable from Him that She really is. I didn’t see the necessity of going to Church every Sunday nor did I believe in the Real Presence. Sorry that this is all out of whack and not chronological, but I haven’t actually sat down and thought about my conversion this much until now. Anyways, the summer after my girlfriend was hounding me about Catholicism and made a fool out of me, I went to Ocean City, MD with her family. That was just like 2 years ago when there were a bunch of hurricanes. Anyways, there was something brewing out in the Atlantic and the surf was pretty strong. So, I went out with my friend (her brother, who is my lifelong friend…yeah, it’s weird) and tried to boogie board on some distant waves that were forming from a sandbar. We made it out the the sandbar and were able to stand up, but soon thereafter, I was washed off into a rough area with an undercurrent. I tried as hard as I could for what seemed like forever to get back into shore. I wasn’t getting anywhere and I could see that my girlfriend’s family on the beach was getting worried. I started to really get tired and seriously thought that I might drown. So, I prayed. It was the first time in a while. Needless to say, I eventually made it back soon after that. That near death experience, or at least what I perceived to be one, made me re-examine my life, but it still didn’t straighten me out. Like I said, I’m still not completely straightened out, but I’m workin’ on it. Then, this past summer (of '05), a close friend’s brother (he was a friend of mine himself) was killed in a freak dirtbike accident. He was only 14. It could not have happened to a worse family. They were already in rough shape. His parents were going through a divorce and he was even a twin! Once again, this was another wake-up call for me. Finally, last year I went to World Youth Day in Cologne. I have mixed feelings about it, but in the end, I think that it strengthened my faith, especially spending time in those ancient churches in Rome. (Our diocese group went to Rome first and stopped by in Assisi and Padua before making our way up to Cologne.) I guess that that’s about it. Just a lot of different experiences that prompted me to re-examine my beliefs and a lot of learning with a lot of mind-changing. Believe it or not, I used to think a lot like Mike. 😃 Now, I’m debating what I want to do with my life. The priesthood is a possibility.
 
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mikew262:
I’ve usually made my valid point and blown yours away. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge it, or the tone of your response usually betrays your young age.
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To be honest with you Mike, I don’t think I’ve ever heard you address anything I’ve written head-on and point-by-point nor present a strong case in support of some stance that you are espousing. You seem to be more fond of being a judgmental self-appointed judgment-monitor that resorts to pointing out my age when you have nothing better to say, but we’ll let others be the judge of that. 😉 Sorry, Mrs. Abbott, but this isn’t the first time that Mike and I have butted heads. We’ve been around these forums for a while now. Oooohhh, there’s something I have on you, Mike. I’ve posted about twice as many times as you!!! Does that make me any more credible? NO. Neither does your age make you more credible when it comes to faith or morals. After all, that IS what we are here to discuss, is it not?
 
Also, Mrs. Abbott, I’ve learned some things on these forums. If you haven’t already noticed, I’m usually online from about 7-8 o’clock in the morning until about 10-midnight every day, minus when I’m at class. However, you can’t take everything you here on here as being true. You oughta get yourself a CCC if you don’t already have one. A copy of Ludwig Ott’s Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma would help too. Frank Sheed’s Theology for Beginners is good as well. I’m glad to hear that you’re a former cafeteria Catholic trying to be more faithful and again apologize for my inital reaction. The thing is that if you really want to learn about the Faith you have to read. I used to hate reading, but now I read all the time. If you haven’t already, the Catholic Answers booklet Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth is a good place to start, but it’s certainly just the basics.
 
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mrs_abbott:
But I don’t believe the Catholic Church is the true Church. I don’t believe that there IS one true Church. Now what?
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Amen. God has shown you some truth.
 
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M_Oliver:
Amen. God has shown you some truth.
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Okay, we’ve come full circle. Why, Mrs. Abbott, do you not believe that “the Catholic Church is the true Church. I don’t believe that there IS one true Church?”
 
Would a True Christian force themselves on someone who doesn’t want to speak to them “smitty”?

Don’t use me…
 
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mrs_abbott:
Ok, to sum up the majority of the opinions on this thread, it’s not ok to be Christian if you were once Catholic and supposedly know the Truth. But it IS ok to be a non-Catholic Christian if you don’t supposedly know the Truth yet. Or, it’s just not ok to be a non-Catholic Christian because it’s a heresy not to be Catholic.
Is that all correct?
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Those who “used to be CAtholic” and leave put their souls in immortal danger. I personally pray that those who leave will be protected under “invincible ignorance”. In other words, that they really don’t understand what they are leaving, and God will not hold them accountable.

Yet you will find that many here are “reverts”. People who left the Church, did not really understand what they were leaving, getting “really saved” or :“born again” in a Protestant Church, and eventually, start to actually look at what the Catholic Church actually teaches and end up right back in the Catholic Church.

Oops. Gotta go.

God Bless,
Maria
 
It’s all about a sincere attempt to follow the truth, right? God only knows each of our particular degree of “sincerity.”

Seems to me that if a non-Catholic Christian is doing this, he/she is following Christ faithfully. To the degree, though, that they are in fact rationalizing and choosing not to believe or investigate what they suspect to be true (because of pride, selfishness, etc.), then God knows this, and He will be the judge of their faith.

A Catholic, on the other hand, who truly believes that the Holy Spirit speaks through the Church, is bound to be judged on a whole bunch of things that a non-Catholic may not be responsible for.
 
john ennis:
It’s all about a sincere attempt to follow the truth, right? God only knows each of our particular degree of “sincerity.”

Seems to me that if a non-Catholic Christian is doing this, he/she is following Christ faithfully.
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It seems to me that if a non-Catholic Christian “sincerely attempts to follow the truth” then they will be lead to the Church. 👍
 
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JSmitty2005:
Okay, we’ve come full circle. Why, Mrs. Abbott, do you not believe that “the Catholic Church is the true Church. I don’t believe that there IS one true Church?”
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I’m not saying it is and I’m not saying it isn’t. I’m just saying that other than following your faith and the teachings of your faith, there’s no real way to tell. I’m speaking mainly from a Protestant point-of-view where they look at Catholics and think that they’re trying to shove Catholicism down their throats.
This is not necessarily MY opinion but it’s the opinion of MOST, not all, of the Protestants I’ve met in my lifetime.
There’s nothing wrong with Catholicism because the Catholics believe in the power and meaning of the Eucharist, which no other religions have.
I’m just advocating for the Protestants who feel persecuted for not being Catholic because Catholicism is supposedly the only “true” religion.
That’s all it comes down to.
 
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