When did people start holding hands in Catholic churches?

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Has anyone had any luck with closing their eyes, folding their hands, and thereby sidestepping the whole issue?
My home parish is fine, but when I visit other parishes, some people snatch my hand or give me disapproving looks when I just simply do not want to hold hands. The approach I’m asking about was suggested by someone. I’m interested in how it actually plays out.
 
katy said:
Has anyone had any luck with closing their eyes, folding their hands, and thereby sidestepping the whole issue?
My home parish is fine, but when I visit other parishes, some people snatch my hand or give me disapproving looks when I just simply do not want to hold hands. The approach I’m asking about was suggested by someone. I’m interested in how it actually plays out.
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I have. I just keep my hands together in front of me, chest level, and close my eyes for the Our Father. Only once I had someone force themselves on me to hold hands, and they ended up accidentally putting their hand on my chest as they tried to pry my hands out of the prayer position. :o So, all of you hand holders out there, don’t go for someone’s hands if they are holding them up against their chest! It’s actually a kind of physical assault, anyway, to force another person to hold your hand when they clearly don’t want to.
 
katy said:
Has anyone had any luck with closing their eyes, folding their hands, and thereby sidestepping the whole issue?

My children and I do exactly that during the Our Father. I don’t know if anyone gives us disaproving looks, (can’t tell with my eyes closed) but no one has tried to reach for our hands.
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I think I may give this a dry run, so to speak, at one of the “mandatory” handholding parishes. I would rather do this than be blindsided while visiting.
 
lak611 said:
"No gesture for the people during the Lord’s Prayer is mentioned in the official documents.
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Does that mean we are to disintegrate and not exist?
Or does it mean that we are free to have any gesture and posture.
 
HOLDING HANDS started in the NOVOS ORDO mass,
It is PROTESTANT related, just like communion in the hand.
These are some of the fruits of VATICAN II
You will never see any of these actions at a TRIDENTINE MASS.

Traditio
archangel63 said:
I will have to admit there were many years there that I did not go to Church at all. I think my parents stopped making me go after I was confirmed. As kids we didn’t like being dragged to Church. As a little boy I wanted to be home playing. Oh, I went to mass on Easter and Christmas (I was a Holiday Catholic). But a couple years there I missed. My life took me elsewhere and I was not attending.

I remember when I had come back they had changed the melodies of some of the singing prayers. I really missed the way they went when I was a boy. I think they’ve changed them a couple times since. I’m 43, so I remember the folk masses back in the late 1960’s. I liked that when I was a kid.

But the one thing I do not ever remember seeing at a Catholic mass when I was growing up was people holding their arms out extended like Jesus would stand in a painting? And I also don’t remember when groups of people started holding hands during the Our Father? I remember when I first started seeing this it reminded me of Protestant church services on TV. When did this pop up in the Catholic Church? Just curious?
:confused:
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Does anyone know what Protestant denominations put hand-holding into their services?
 
katy said:
Has anyone had any luck with closing their eyes, folding their hands, and thereby sidestepping the whole issue?
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My family always used to sit in the front row so the kids could see what was going on at the altar, trying to have them pay attention instead of fidgeting. We always prayed the Our Father with hands joined in prayer.

One day, during the Sign of Peace, the priest said to me “Is it so hard for your family to hold hands?”

Next Sunday found us at the back of the church. We also refused to join in the “Through him, with him and in him” doxology when the congregation was invited to do so by the priest.
 
Taditio said:
HOLDING HANDS started in the NOVOS ORDO mass,
It is PROTESTANT related, just like communion in the hand.
These are some of the fruits of VATICAN II
You will never see any of these actions at a TRIDENTINE MASS.

Traditio
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According to a letter in This Rock, Oct. 1994, by a reader who claimed to have researched the matter, the holding of hands was brought in by the feminist movement and has its origins from the Wiccan ritual where the group joins hands to form the base of a cone.

Apparently, holding hands is to engender power as they pray: to spiral upwards from the base of the cone.

:eek:

Waddaya know? I just picked up this old mag. today and leafed through it before throwing it out.
 
Walking_Home said:
The following is from the Code of Canon Law. I have not found were the GIRM specifies the orans for the laity during the Our Father. The orans is an action proper to the priest.

vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P38.HTM

Can. 907 In the eucharistic celebration deacons and lay persons are not permitted to offer prayers, especially the eucharistic prayer, or to perform actions which are proper to the celebrating priest.
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The Orans postion is a posture, not an action. Making the sign of the Cross as a blessing is an action.

I cannot locate the thread, but elswere in these fora it was noted that at least a certain part of Italy has specifically been given the permission (to the laity, that is,) explicitly to pray in the orans position.
 
otjm said:
The Orans postion is a posture, not an action. Making the sign of the Cross as a blessing is an action.

I cannot locate the thread, but elswere in these fora it was noted that at least a certain part of Italy has specifically been given the permission (to the laity, that is,) explicitly to pray in the orans position.
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One cannot assume the posture without performing the action. The end result is the orans. Since the orans is for the priest–the laity would be imitating the priest by performing the orans.

It has been brought up–that in certain places in Italy --permission has been given for the laity to use the orans—but no proof has been provided. Just saying that it has been given—is NO proof.
 
Taditio said:
HOLDING HANDS started in the NOVOS ORDO mass,
It is PROTESTANT related, just like communion in the hand.
These are some of the fruits of VATICAN II
You will never see any of these actions at a TRIDENTINE MASS.

Traditio
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Well since all the Protestants and ex-Protestants deny that they do that, please give proof.
 
Walking_Home said:
One cannot assume the posture without performing the action. The end result is the orans. Since the orans is for the priest–the laity would be imitating the priest by performing the orans.

It has been brought up–that in certain places in Italy --permission has been given for the laity to use the orans—but no proof has been provided. Just saying that it has been given—is NO proof.
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Now that is a stretch I haven’t seen in a long time - if you have a postion, you have to take an action to get there.

So by your logic, since the priest is moving his arms, the laity by Canon 907 cannot move their arms. Makes perfect sense to me.

Canon 907, unless you have evidence to the contrary, speaks of actions, not postures. It is not speaking about moving one’s arms to get into a posture. You may want to read the Canon as forbiding the orans posture, but that is not what the plain meaning of “actions” is.

But it was a nice try.

Oh, and I did not offer the comment about Italy as proof; simply as a comment.
 
otjm said:
Now that is a stretch I haven’t seen in a long time - if you have a postion, you have to take an action to get there.

So by your logic, since the priest is moving his arms, the laity by Canon 907 cannot move their arms. Makes perfect sense to me.

Canon 907, unless you have evidence to the contrary, speaks of actions, not postures. It is not speaking about moving one’s arms to get into a posture. You may want to read the Canon as forbiding the orans posture, but that is not what the plain meaning of “actions” is.

But it was a nice try.

Oh, and I did not offer the comment about Italy as proof; simply as a comment.
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Nice twist on my words. Apparently to YOU --the priests raised hands just appear in that position—without any action on his part.

You know darn well–that this is not about moving the arms–but about imitating the priest. The action cannot be separated from the posture. When both priest and laity perform the same action the result is imitation. The orans is defined for the priest --not the laity.

By the way—you saying the canon does not say–what it says–is no proof either----just like your comment.
 
archangel63 said:
I will have to admit there were many years there that I did not go to Church at all. I think my parents stopped making me go after I was confirmed. As kids we didn’t like being dragged to Church. As a little boy I wanted to be home playing. Oh, I went to mass on Easter and Christmas (I was a Holiday Catholic). But a couple years there I missed. My life took me elsewhere and I was not attending.

I remember when I had come back they had changed the melodies of some of the singing prayers. I really missed the way they went when I was a boy. I think they’ve changed them a couple times since. I’m 43, so I remember the folk masses back in the late 1960’s. I liked that when I was a kid.

But the one thing I do not ever remember seeing at a Catholic mass when I was growing up was people holding their arms out extended like Jesus would stand in a painting? And I also don’t remember when groups of people started holding hands during the Our Father? I remember when I first started seeing this it reminded me of Protestant church services on TV. When did this pop up in the Catholic Church? Just curious?
:confused:
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I believe this practice started about 25 years ago or more when the church went from Latin to English, guitar masses, etc. I did not like it when it first came out, but now I am used to it and I still feel reverent in prayer to Heavenly Father.

I always thought that this was something the church wanted us to do,but found out very recently that it is not. I do wish we were better informed and guided by our priests.😦

Blessings
 
just a question, if Im getting everyone here, I understand everyone wants tradition etc. The first time I was holding a strangers hand in church it felt odd, I dont even shake hands when I meet someone I like to nod my head.

So it was a stretch to hold hands and I wasnt sure I liked it. (protestant service I will add)

Then I thought about it, If the other person is a believer and we are potentially to spend eternity, eternity, forever together and I cant even hold a hand of them?

Just how was I learning in this life to prepare for my eternal life if I couldnt do something simple and give of myself in such a small way?? How can I say Im with the family when I cant touch them? Jesus touched the lepers, why cant we touch each other. Didnt they used to greet each other in a kiss?

And I stood corrected, if we cant get along in this life then how can we in the next? Especially if this life is to prepare us. 🤷
 
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