When did the raising your hands during the our father start?

[dfp42]

I don’t remember ever seeing this or being taught in Catholic school in the early 90’s. Is this an American thing that got added into the mass recently or do they teach this in Catholic schools now?

 

[puzzleannie]

when some priest or liturgist wannabee came to your parish and instructed everyone to do this. Laity don’t dream this stuff up and just do it, like the wave, you have to be carefully taught.

 

[dfp42]

when some priest or liturgist wannabee came to your parish and instructed everyone to do this. Laity don’t dream this stuff up and just do it, like the wave, you have to be carefully taught.

Are you serious? I thought perhaps this was a protestant thing that the converts were doing because no one ever told them how. So basically someone started doing this in the United States and it spread as a normal all around the world? So it’s neither right to do or wrong to do? If it’s wrong then I wonder what the American mass will come out with next communion on our nose…

 

[archangel04]

You are pretty much both right! Also some priest encouraged this. It’s become the norm for many Catholics. Sadly they add this to the category of “what makes a praish great”.

 

[TheMc]

Are you serious?

Yeah, that’s about it.

I thought perhaps this was a protestant thing that the converts were doing because no one ever told them how. So basically someone started doing this in the United States and it spread as a normal all around the world? So it’s neither right to do or wrong to do? If it’s wrong then I wonder what the American mass will come out with next communion on our nose…

hmm… I would argue for not doing it, because it isn’t in the rubrics.

 

[Equites_Christi]

If by raised hands you mean as if to hold the hands of the people next to someone, or actually holding their hands if you know them, yeah I don’t like it.

It’s like, of all the prayers in the Mass, why the Our Father? And are we all particularly ‘communal’ for that one prayer but when the hands drop to our sides that’s it? For me it really disrupts the tone of the Mass.

I’d rather have my hands clasped in prayer or piously gripping the back of the pew in front of me

 

[miketrum]

The simple answere to the question is, I don’t know. All stand for the Our Father (“This posture {standing}, from the earliest days of the Church has been understood as the stance of those who are ‘risen with Christ and seek the things that are above’ we assume our full stature before God, not in pride, but in humble gratitude for the marvelous things God has done,”) and we remmain standing until the conclusiion of the Agnus Dei. In my small church in MA we stand and hold raised hands. In St John’s in Boca Raton they also stand and hold raised hands. In St. Edwards in Plam Beach where the parisioners are mostly seasonal, those able, all stand, some with raised hands, some holding hands, and some holding raised hands. As far as I know raised hands is not yet part of the Liturgy.
Peace
Michael

 

[Hesychios]

It’s actually a very ancient way of praying, and very Catholic.

Once it was the common posture for Catholics to pray in, but some time in the intervening centuries (the Dark Ages?) people started to change to kneeling and clasping their hands together, and the more ancient form was largely forgotten in most places, but not everywhere.

I think it’s better than hand holding, I have to wonder how that got started.

 

[Katrina5]

I thought it started sometime after V2 when we were all hippie-fied and the mass was a “meal” and Kumbaya was part of the New Liturgy.
Right now I am so frustrated with this kind of thing that I’m looking for a new (old) Catholic church to attend.
My current parish is more like a social club and breaking so many traditions and there is no reverence.
Last year I was shoved aside during the sign of peace so someone could hug a friend or relative. And it goes on forever, like they haven’t seen one another for years.

The new (67 y/o) priest is removing things a little at a time. Things like Eucharistic Adoration,which I love, opening the doors between the church and the narthex for more socializing, i.e. loud talking and party-like atmosphere, no baptisms during mass (no welcoming new members, because then the congregation is a “captive audience” who have better things to do than welcome new babies) he took away the lighters so people can’t light the vigil lights (too old-fashioned) no more Rosary-- EVER! And that’s just part of his plan. Maybe going from three masses to one, and no weekday masses, which we only had one anyway.

I am really upset by this, and writing about it on this thread may not be appropriate, but I need prayer, to be led in the right direction.

 

[Katrina5]

It’s actually a very ancient way of praying, and very Catholic.

Once it was the common posture for Catholics to pray in, but some time in the intervening centuries (the Dark Ages?) people started to change to kneeling and clasping their hands together, and the more ancient form was largely forgotten in most places, but not everywhere.

I think it’s better than hand holding, I have to wonder how that got started.

http://www.castlesandmanorhouses.com/castles/pics/orans.jpg

Interesting picture. I do think there have been variations on “postures” over 2,000 years.
I don’t like the hand holding at all!
I was hoping with the new mass coming in Advent 2011, some things might go away.
As I described in my rant, I miss a lot of the old ways. I like English, but we need to keep some Latin or it will disappear forever. We need some sung masses, chant, etc.
I’m reading a book called Seven Lies about Catholic History, and I’m in the chapter where she describes “Medieval” being made to look like everyone was a bunch of idiots, and then the Renaissance came along.
It’s one of those books where I say “Yes!” after every paragraph. (Probably should save this for the apologist page.)

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

When I attended World Youth Day in Australia, hundreds of thousands of young people at an outdoor Mass had morphed into large national groups. Spanish groups naturally sought other Spanish groups, as did Germans, Americans, Chinese, and everyone else. During the Mass, most of the American groups held hands at the Our Father. Many of the non-American youth looked over at them and I overheard (in Spanish) a couple of whispers of “What are they doing?”

It only takes a couple of Sundays to introduce errant behaviors or teachings, but it takes many years to correct them.

 

[Califman831]

It’s actually a very ancient way of praying, and very Catholic.

Once it was the common posture for Catholics to pray in, but some time in the intervening centuries (the Dark Ages?) people started to change to kneeling and clasping their hands together, and the more ancient form was largely forgotten in most places, but not everywhere.

I think it’s better than hand holding, I have to wonder how that got started.

http://www.castlesandmanorhouses.com/castles/pics/orans.jpg

do you mean they were not kneeling and praying in both the new and the old testament and that kneeling came much later in history?

 

[catharina]

when some priest or liturgist wannabee came to your parish and instructed everyone to do this. Laity don’t dream this stuff up and just do it, like the wave, you have to be carefully taught.

Agree. Timing? Maybe ten or fifteen yrs ago. Maybe longer?
I still don’t see it many places and I never “join in” when I do see it.

 

[Reuben_J]

Perhaps the OP means the oran position. It is not in the rubric but neither it says it cannot be done. GIRM would not encourage it since it is not in the rubric but does not specifically prohibit it.

Since when it crept into our mass? Vatican II no doubt plays a part in its introduction as Catholics sense freedom being encouraged with the changes that are allowed in the mass. So probably the practice arises from this new found changes and so it could not be any earlier than the mid-sixties.

 

[pippin]

I am a revert. When I left the Church in the early 70s we didn’t hold hands or pray in the orans position. When I returned in 2001 I noticed that everyone held hands during the Our Father. About 3 or 4 years ago our Bishop sent out a letter saying no more holding hands during the Our Father. He said this is an American thing that crept in from Protestism. He instructed us to use the Orans position instead.

 

[laszlo]

Perhaps the OP means the oran position. It is not in the rubric but neither it says it cannot be done. GIRM would not encourage it since it is not in the rubric but does not specifically prohibit it.

There are many things which are not prohibited by the GIRM. The liturgy belongs to the category where everything is prohibited what is not allowed.

The proper position for a layman to pray is to pu together the hands, either with stretched fingers (except the thumbs) or with folded fingers.

Sometimes in the eighties came the holding hands with the neighbors, the in this millennium the oral position. Holding hand was allowed a while ago, the oral position is still unapproved custom.

I feel that this is attempt to bring in the idea of the democratic people’s Church, we pray like the priest, there is no difference between us and the priest. Naturally is the Church will decide otherwise I will accept the decision with obedience. This is the tradition.

 

[dfp42]

There are many things which are not prohibited by the GIRM. The liturgy belongs to the category where everything is prohibited what is not allowed.

The proper position for a layman to pray is to pu together the hands, either with stretched fingers (except the thumbs) or with folded fingers.

Sometimes in the eighties came the holding hands with the neighbors, the in this millennium the oral position. Holding hand was allowed a while ago, the oral position is still unapproved custom.

I feel that this is attempt to bring in the idea of the democratic people’s Church, we pray like the priest, there is no difference between us and the priest. Naturally is the Church will decide otherwise I will accept the decision with obedience. This is the tradition.

How much longer until the Church is more forceful on straightening out these matters and others. The longer stuff like this goes on the more people have the power to run a muck and do whatever they feel like doing. Can’t the bishops just write a document to us so we know how to act in Church? Like basic conduct. For example when you enter the church you are to remain silent. When I was in first grade I had to do certain things in school that the teacher said and if I didn’t like it so what. It was the norm.

 

[Lormar]

The hand holding during the Our Father came first. I believe that started in the 90s. It was taken from Alcoholics Anonymous I would guess. Then came the imitating the priest and his gestures. I don’t know how it will be gotten rid of since a lot of modern Catholics don’t like to be told what they can and can’t do.

Last year I was shoved aside during the sign of peace so someone could hug a friend or relative.

Katrina, I can relate to this as it happened to me. A woman (who was no light weight) rudely stepped directly in front of me pushing me back into the pew while she shook hands with people.

 

[archangel04]

I have no problem with the orans form in fact you can find it in the old testament in Exodus? It is especially good for private prayer. I do have a problem when lay people do it during mass. It seems like we are trying to mimic the priest or somehow adding to the Eucharistic prayer even though we are not needed.

Has for hand holding, that just came about after Vatican II. We has Catholics must remember our place and even the trypes of gestures we do at Mass. If hand holding occurs, kindly declined to hold hands, this is why we have the “sigh of peace”. This will encourage others to perhaps think about their actions.

Avoid the orans form during the mass, let father do the work he has been ordained to do, if you wan’t to use this form use it outisde of mass. Be humble and just be united to everyone through Christ.

 

[karennascargo3]

As a fairly new Catholic, these types of things are very confusing to me. Do I follow what our congregation does and hold hands; or do I not (because it is not the right thing to do) and then appear to be uncharitable or too good to do so?

There are so very many things like this that keep coming up. Things like should women wear a headcovering, should the church be silent before mass, should there be applause, etc., etc., etc. There’s literally hundreds of these types of things in question.

I can’t help but keep wondering why these types of things are not resolved by the Catholic leadership or even the Pope himself?

Don’t these unanswered questions, or non-enforcement of established rules, only divide us as Catholics, create hard feelings and unneeded controversy, disrespectful to God, and make us appear uncreditble to the non-believing world? Shouldn’t the biggest drawing point and strength for Catholicism be unity and respect among and between our brothers and sisters in Christ?

I’m so totally confused and find myself wondering why in the world someone doesn’t do something to resolve these issues and let God’s work move forward. Perhaps I’m growing disillusioned with what I thought were people who cared about God’s agenda rather than our own. It just seems like all these issues could be resolved within literally minutes if someone would stand up and say – “this is how it is to be universally done. If you don’t like it, either live with it or find another denomination”.

I’m kind of getting so I don’t care one way or another, just someone make a decision and let’s move forward. I don’t mean to sound negative, I’m just so frustated and it all seems so unnecessary.