When did the raising your hands during the our father start?

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Raising hands during prayer was a common posture in the early CHurch, so no, it did not “start” in the 1970’s
I have seen many pictures of St Francis holding his hands that way. He had the stigmata.
I also think it is a humble posture.

When the hand is held up like a satellite searching for a signal, a sort of Queen’s wave, it bothers me because it seems like they are connecting to God via Broadband. Very Joel Osteen-ish.

However, I feel connected to God via Broadband when I get on CAF and connect with other Catholics. 😃

I have learned a lot here.
 
I am not a “Holy Hand Waver” myself, but i have come to understand for the Church to be truly “Catholic” there must be room for varying expressions of spirituality, provided the theology is orthodox.
 
Thank you! Yes it does answer my question. I love the old churches, not just the beauty of stained glass, etc., but the sacred feeling they have.
I have just read two books by Michael S. Rose, one is called Ugly as Sin about modern, i.e. stuck in 1969, architecture. There were reasons for statues and stained glass-- beauty helps lead us to God.
We have been duped into thinking V2 had something to do with being more like Protestants.
A topic for another time.
Thank you again, I read #24.
I too love my “old” church buildings (current parish).
Yet I love my “new” childhood parish in Chicago too.

It was begun in 1959, long before VII had an impact on anything.
The church and school were finally completed in 1969.

It’s a simple structure, accessible all around (handicapped in mind).
It was built because the older structure, combining church and school,
had to come down, obvious to all of Chicago after the fire at Our Lady
of the Angels school, DEC 1958, killed 93 people (students and nuns).

A few years earlier, there might have been great
objections to the simplicity of the new structure.
After the fire-deaths, objections ceased.

The new church-building is now about 50+yrs old. Time flies!

PS - “Eighty-seven children and three nuns died on
December 1, 1958 as a result of the Our Lady of the Angels fire.”

Absolutely no doubt about it -
my view of more modern structures as newer
church and school buildings is very influenced
by the facts of the tragedy in Chicago.
Even as a child I understood that the safety of
parishoners had to be apparent in new buildings.
Not to mention the costs of labor and goods had to be
appropriate in building new structures.

IOW, I have no resistance to newer Church structures.
None at all! Deo gratias!
 
…and I have been asking it for forty something years.
Instead of looking around and saying “what happened?” we should be looking at ourselves and ask “how can I make it better?”
 
I agree with Pippin…I left the church in the 80’s and I don’t remember holding hands for any prayers, when I came back in 2005…I was shocked to see almost everyone holding hands and or in the raised posistion.
I say also…lets stick to the rubic. 👍 hands in the prayer posistion.
 
do you mean they were not kneeling and praying in both the new and the old testament and that kneeling came much later in history?
I believe that is correct. If i am not mistaken (and someone correct me if i am wrong), the Latin Rite is the only rite that kneels on a regular basis. In the Byzantine Rite the normal liturgical posture is standing. The only time we do kneel are during penetential services like Good Friday evening Liturgy.
 
I too love my “old” church buildings (current parish).
Yet I love my “new” childhood parish in Chicago too.

It was begun in 1959, long before VII had an impact on anything.
The church and school were finally completed in 1969.

It’s a simple structure, accessible all around (handicapped in mind).
It was built because the older structure, combining church and school,
had to come down, obvious to all of Chicago after the fire at Our Lady
of the Angels school, DEC 1958, killed 93 people (students and nuns).

A few years earlier, there might have been great
objections to the simplicity of the new structure.
After the fire-deaths, objections ceased.

The new church-building is now about 50+yrs old. Time flies!

PS - “Eighty-seven children and three nuns died on
December 1, 1958 as a result of the Our Lady of the Angels fire.”

Absolutely no doubt about it -
my view of more modern structures as newer
church and school buildings is very influenced
by the facts of the tragedy in Chicago.
Even as a child I understood that the safety of
parishoners had to be apparent in new buildings.
Not to mention the costs of labor and goods had to be
appropriate in building new structures.

IOW, I have no resistance to newer Church structures.
None at all! Deo gratias!
Oh, my goodness, you have no idea how much that fire affected our lives. We lived in Indy, I was 11, but everyone was so upset. My sister and I couldn’t sleep at night. Our pastor went from room to room explaining, consoling, and so forth, to all the kids.
I have read three books about it over the years, visited the monument, and then found the website (haven’t looked at it lately) where the survivors get together for reunions.

We visited an exhibit called Catholic Chicago a couple years ago and got to write about the fire in a memory book. There was also an old map of Chicago with all the Catholic churches and schools, and it seemed like there was one on every corner. Very different from mostly Protestant Indianapolis.

As for modern, ugly, etc., let’s face it, some folks have different taste. There are some “ugly” old statues that we used to have, very plaster-y and not painted too well, eyes rolled heavenward, and sometimes gory looking blood, depending on how they were martyred.

I know two converts, one being my mother, who walked into a quiet, stained glass window, vigil light church (St John’s-- the oldest church in Indy) she “felt God’s presence”, possibly due to the Real Presence, but also because of the sacred space.
Another Jewish friend visited St David’s in Wales and converted because it just felt “right”.
I can’t imagine anyone walking into our Origami mish-mash of styles and weeds in vases, burlap banner using church and feeling anything other than “I want out of here”.
And the priest feels it, because he says things like, “I’ll have this (mass) over with in thirty minutes.”

Don’t get me wrong, I made my share of burlap banners in the late 1960’s, but that was over 40 years ago. It would make our fingers sore.

I do like “modern” and abstract art, but there is a lot of “bad” art that we just put up with.My favorite is a blending of old and new, not getting stuck in either old (medieval?) or used to be new but now dated 1960/70’s styles.
And always with an attitude toward reverence and contemplation, which never go out of style.
 
Oh, my goodness, you have no idea how much that fire affected our lives. We lived in Indy, I was 11, but everyone was so upset. My sister and I couldn’t sleep at night. Our pastor went from room to room explaining, consoling, and so forth, to all the kids.

**You’re correct. I had no idea. My POV was in Chicago. **

I have read three books about it over the years, visited the monument, and then found the website (haven’t looked at it lately) where the survivors get together for reunions.

We visited an exhibit called Catholic Chicago a couple years ago and got to write about the fire in a memory book. There was also an old map of Chicago with all the Catholic churches and schools, and it seemed like there was one on every corner. Very different from mostly Protestant Indianapolis.

As for modern, ugly, etc., let’s face it, some folks have different taste. There are some “ugly” old statues that we used to have, very plaster-y and not painted too well, eyes rolled heavenward, and sometimes gory looking blood, depending on how they were martyred.

I know two converts, one being my mother, who walked into a quiet, stained glass window, vigil light church (St John’s-- the oldest church in Indy) she “felt God’s presence”, possibly due to the Real Presence, but also because of the sacred space.
Another Jewish friend visited St David’s in Wales and converted because it just felt “right”.


**Simply beautiful! **

I can’t imagine anyone walking into our Origami mish-mash of styles and weeds in vases, burlap banner using church and feeling anything other than “I want out of here”.
And the priest feels it, because he says things like, “I’ll have this (mass) over with in thirty minutes.”

Don’t get me wrong, I made my share of burlap banners in the late 1960’s, but that was over 40 years ago. It would make our fingers sore.

I do like “modern” and abstract art, but there is a lot of “bad” art that we just put up with.My favorite is a blending of old and new, not getting stuck in either old (medieval?) or used to be new but now dated 1960/70’s styles.
And always with an attitude toward reverence and contemplation, which never go out of style.
**Remembering being shell-shocked in the 70s when I was visiting Chicago and found my parish (and all area churches) locked up tight, I’m simply glad to be in a Catholic church, really any Catholic church!

No complaints from me.
Also helps me to remind myself of the underground
Church, for example, in China.**
 
Joining hands as a visible sign of a faith community that prays not “my” Father but “our Father” has become a custom in countless parishes in all regions of the US. It started and spread because Catholics came to regard it as a practice that aided them in liturgical prayer. It is neither right nor wrong. While there are rubrics which refer to the postures of the people, they are not intended to be exhaustive nor definitive. How about the one indicating that we should reverence the Presence of Christ when entering our pews. Have you never noticed the kinds of gestures that pass for genuflecting? I’m unable to genuflect so I bow reverently instead. Is that disallowed by the rubrics?

Worshipping God in spirit & truth transcends the mere observance of rubrical directions. We should have respect for legitimate customs that arise within faithful catholic parishes, even if we don’t understand them or question them.
 
I had someone take my hand one time (i mean grab my hand while i had my hands in the “prayer position”).I gave no indication that i wanted to hold hands. Some people just can’t take a hint.
 
We don’t have to hold anyone hand if we don’t want to. If we stand, clasp our hands together and maybe close our eyes, probably we will be left alone. Should our hand is being grasped against our will, I think we should be charitable for that one, and let it be, for refusing it or pulling our hand away roughly would be even worse - we are in the church and in the mass.

I don’t hold hand or do I use the orans position but I would not go hysterical if someone else do. Most of the times, this do not bother me. During the sign of peace I would gladly shake someone hand if they offer it to me but I don’t initiate it myself. When I attend the mass, I try to make myself happy and really wish that small things that other people in the congregation do will not irritate me.

The order of the mass is clear enough and if we feel strongly about it, we should be involved in the parish to bring it to the attention of the priest or liturgical committee or whoever responsible for it so that it will not happen. However, that should never be done in a forceful manner or without love. Some things take time to stop or start. In the meantime, maybe focus on the positive. It may not be as bad as it seems.
 
Hello,
I’ve noticed that some people do it, some do not, in my parish. I choose not to, because I’m not comfortable with it. (I’m kind of old school, and it doesn’t flow naturally for me, so I just don’t.). I think it’s a matter of choice. I don’t know where it started.

As far as hand-holding goes, the parish I grew up in did it at one of the Masses. I could see why, but I’m not comfortable with it. I’m not a touchy-feeley kind of person. For the same reason, I don’t like having to “show a sign” at the Sign of Peace by shaking hands, either, and prefer when they omit that, but that’s just me.

Blessings of Christ!
 
I have only experienced hand holding when I was in the states. I personally do not like it I find it distracts.

In the UK there are few people who stands palms up but not in a big way (hope that makes sense) just sort of opening their clasped hands. Most stand with their hands clasped.
 
I thought it started sometime after V2 when we were all hippie-fied and the mass was a “meal” and Kumbaya was part of the New Liturgy.
Right now I am so frustrated with this kind of thing that I’m looking for a new (old) Catholic church to attend.
My current parish is more like a social club and breaking so many traditions and there is no reverence.
Last year I was shoved aside during the sign of peace so someone could hug a friend or relative. And it goes on forever, like they haven’t seen one another for years.

The new (67 y/o) priest is removing things a little at a time. Things like Eucharistic Adoration,which I love, opening the doors between the church and the narthex for more socializing, i.e. loud talking and party-like atmosphere, no baptisms during mass (no welcoming new members, because then the congregation is a “captive audience” who have better things to do than welcome new babies) he took away the lighters so people can’t light the vigil lights (too old-fashioned) no more Rosary-- EVER! And that’s just part of his plan. Maybe going from three masses to one, and no weekday masses, which we only had one anyway.

I am really upset by this, and writing about it on this thread may not be appropriate, but I need prayer, to be led in the right direction.
I felt much the same as you only a year ago. This is what I did: I started with a novena to St. John Vianney, patron saint of priests, for my parish priest. Afterwards I then prayed faithfully each morning for my priest, begging St. John Vianney’s intercession for help for our parish. I had only God’s will in mind and the best for my priest and parish. At one point I did the novena again and I used to pray during Mass, also. At the end of the year, amazing, miraculous changes had taken place that I could never have thought of. Things are much more the way one would expect a Catholic Church to be now. I never said a word to anyone, except through prayer… Intercession with our saints is truly amazing. They love us.
 
We don’t have to hold anyone hand if we don’t want to. If we stand, clasp our hands together and maybe close our eyes, probably we will be left alone. …
Wrong!!! That is what I assumed two Sundays ago when I went to the Mass celebrated with contemporary music. However, the person to my right decided that she had to hold my hand. People just do not want to get it.
…Should our hand is being grasped against our will, I think we should be charitable for that one, and let it be, for refusing it or pulling our hand away roughly would be even worse - we are in the church and in the mass…
You are correct, that is what we should do! I just held the hand but that completely distracted me from the prayer and part of the Liturgy of the Eucharist.
 
It’s actually a very ancient way of praying, and very Catholic.

Once it was the common posture for Catholics to pray in…

http://www.castlesandmanorhouses.com/castles/pics/orans.jpg
👍👍

We Christians have prayed for centuries like this…

HOWEVER …there is no provision for lay persons to do this currently in the Liturgy (in fact the Priest is to do so…but the Deacon is instructed in the rubrics to pray with hands together…not in the Orans…during the Our Father…)

However at home etc…it would be great to pray in this ancient manner. I do so at times. I pray with hands folded as a lay person…though during Liturgy (including LOTH)

I have a great love for the early Church…and have this very picture that was posted above…in my house from the Catacombs …
 
At the Maronite Mass and the Byzantine Liturgy I use the Orans position and at the Latin Mass I pray with my hands together.
 
I find holding hands highly distracting. Not to say that I’ve ever Pentecostal service, but that’s what it reminds me of.

Hint for those who really don’t want to hold hands: try “coughing” violently into your hands right before the Our Father and see if anyone tries to grab one. (Just kidding)
 
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