When do identical twins receive their spiritual soul?

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Buntspecht

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We all know that identical twins occur when a single egg is fertilized to form one zygote which then divides into two separate bodies.

But how and when do identical twins receive their spiritual soul?

The following alternatives seem possible:

A1. The zygote receives no spiritual soul at the time of conception (i.e. fertilization). Both identical twins receive their spiritual soul after the zygote has divided into two separate bodies.

A2. The zygote receives one spiritual soul at the time of conception (i.e. fertilization). When the zygote divides into two separate bodies, an additional spiritual soul is given to one of the two bodies. The other one keeps the spiritual soul that has been received at the time of conception.

A3. The zygote receives one spiritual soul at the time of conception (i.e. fertilization). When the zygote divides into two separate bodies, the spiritual soul also divides.

A4. The zygote receives two spiritual souls at the time of conception (i.e. fertilization)… When the zygote divides, one spiritual soul is distributed to each body.

Now, let’s discuss these alternatives:

A1 is not possible, because according to catholic teaching, the spiritual soul of each human being is created by God himself immediately at the time of conception (i.e. fertilization).

A2 is not possible, because according to catholic teaching, the spiritual soul of each human being is created by God himself immediately at the time of conception (i.e. fertilization). In this alternative however, one identical twin receives its spiritual soul at a later point of time.

A3 is not possible, because according to catholic teaching, the spiritual soul of each human being is created by God himself immediately at the time of conception (i.e. fertilization). In this alternative however, the spiritual either divides or is divided by God at a later point in time. In the first case, an additional spiritual soul occurs without God’s involvement, and in the second case, God creates an additional spiritual soul after the time of conception.

A4 implies that there is one body (zygote) with two spiritual souls. According to catholic teaching, a human being is a union of one body and one spiritual soul. Strictly speaking, the zygote would not be a human being in this case.

So the question is: How does catholic teaching explain the existence of identical twins?

Best regards,
Buntspecht
 
The human soul is what animates a human body. It doesn’t “enter” a body, it is intrinsic to it. The instant a human being begins to exist s/he is a body and soul. S/he isn’t a body that “acquires” a soul.
 
I can’t offer any official catholic position only my theory:

I suspect it’s this one:
A4. The zygote receives two spiritual souls at the time of conception (i.e. fertilization)… When the zygote divides, one spiritual soul is distributed to each body.
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Basically, there are two people occupying one body, as it were. Not unlike conjoined twins. They share a body, but not a soul. Then, as soon as they split apart, they are two separate people in two separate bodies. If the split isn’t done completely, they are conjoined twins.

Just my guess.
 
God knew us, and called each of us by name, before the foundations of the earth were formed. Do you not think he has this one figured out…with all due respect. Why must be always try to micro manage the Lord into our way of thinking…He is God and I am His child. My daughter had identical twins in June and they are both baptized and in the family of God. Do you think that I lose one moment of sleep wondering whether or not my grandchildren have a soul? With all due respect, you should look what binds us as Christians rather than what appears to divide.
 
Della said:
The human soul is what animates a human body. It doesn’t “enter” a body, it is intrinsic to it.
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The spiritual soul of each man is immediately created by God.

In contrast, not every human body is immediately created by God.

Thus, there must be a point of time when body and spiritual soul unite. Nevertheless, it is possible, that the unification happens at the same time when the body is created (the time of conception).
 
JulieAA said:
My daughter had identical twins in June and they are both baptized and in the family of God. Do you think that I lose one moment of sleep wondering whether or not my grandchildren have a soul?
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The question is not whether or not your grandchildren have a soul. The question is if catholic teaching can explain the fact the each of them has an individual spiritual soul.

Best regards,
Buntspecht
 
Buntspecht said:
The spiritual soul of each man is immediately created by God.

In contrast, not every human body is immediately created by God.

Thus, there must be a point of time when body and spiritual soul unite. Nevertheless, it is possible, that the unification happens at the same time when the body is created (the time of conception).
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You’re still arguing for a pre-existent soul. That’s not how it works. How the soul animates the body is a mystery that no one can discern, but there are no souls without bodies.

The separation of the soul and body through death was never intended. It may be that you are thinking that bodies and souls are separate entities. They aren’t. This is why death is so tragic–it divides what God never intended be divided. Souls aren’t eternal, they’re immortal–two very different things. 🙂
 
Whitacre_Girl said:
I can’t offer any official catholic position only my theory:

I suspect it’s this one:

Basically, there are two people occupying one body, as it were. Not unlike conjoined twins. They share a body, but not a soul. Then, as soon as they split apart, they are two separate people in two separate bodies. If the split isn’t done completely, they are conjoined twins.

Just my guess.
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This very issue came up in my Aquinas study group yesterday!!!

And, basically, what the group leader (who had completed a course in formational studies for ordination) said, was that the Church “does not know” at what point an embryo receives a human soul. If that can be found in Church teaching, we’d have to accept it as definite.

Otherwise, we can drop the OP’s A1, A2, and A3 because the soul is the life, and zygotes are unquestionably alive. Also, accordingly to Church philosophy, human souls cannot divide, even if the organism that will become the body should divide to form two bodies.

So, absent any official teaching, I would go with A4. The zygote is not yet a “body,” so it isn’t an inhuman melange of 2 souls in one body. It is 2 souls, mysteriously residing in a clump of cells that will divide to form the 2 bodies, although initially associated; just as otherwise a similar clump of cells would form the 1 body around 1 soul.

ICXC NIKA.
 
Della said:
You’re still arguing for a pre-existent soul. That’s not how it works. How the soul animates the body is a mystery that no one can discern, but there are no souls without bodies.

The separation of the soul and body through death was never intended. It may be that you are thinking that bodies and souls are separate entities. They aren’t. This is why death is so tragic–it divides what God never intended be divided. Souls aren’t eternal, they’re immortal–two very different things. 🙂
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Della,

This intrigues me. What is the difference? Can you expand in this point?
 
Nancy Pelosi attempted to use “ensoulment” as a reason why in her mind it was permissable for a woman to have an abortion.

Her thought processes are so inept at 70 years of age - she can’t even grasp the sanctity of human life.
 
Whitacre_Girl said:
Della,

This intrigues me. What is the difference? Can you expand in this point?
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Although I am not her, maybe I can help:

“Immortal” means not subject to death (Latin prefix i-, not; mortal - subject or related to death). Souls are immortal because there is nothing organic in them to die.

“Eternal” means outside of time (Greek e - out of; tern - time); something that is eternal is not subject to time, having no beginning or end.

GOD is eternal. GOD has no time, no beginning and no end. HE just is.

Human Souls are NOT eternal. They have not always existed. The Souls’ being has a beginning, in the formation of their human bodies. They also have time, in the operation of their bodies, and the formation of the memory and mental propensities.

Now, while our Soul is not eternal, we will become so (or nearly so) in the next life. This is because only matter has time. Divested of our human bodies, we will be outside of time and in eternity. We will receive an “eternal body” so as to live with our LORD in Heaven.

But eternity, as such, is not an innate propensity of a being created in time.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA.
 
GEddie said:
Although I am not her, maybe I can help:

“Immortal” means not subject to death (Latin prefix i-, not; mortal - subject or related to death). Souls are immortal because there is nothing organic in them to die.

“Eternal” means outside of time (Greek e - out of; tern - time); something that is eternal is not subject to time, having no beginning or end.

GOD is eternal. GOD has no time, no beginning and no end. HE just is.

Human Souls are NOT eternal. They have not always existed. The Souls’ being has a beginning, in the formation of their human bodies. They also have time, in the operation of their bodies, and the formation of the memory and mental propensities.

Now, while our Soul is not eternal, we will become so (or nearly so) in the next life. This is because only matter has time. Divested of our human bodies, we will be outside of time and in eternity. We will receive an “eternal body” so as to live with our LORD in Heaven.

But eternity, as such, is not an innate propensity of a being created in time.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA.
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Gotcha!!

I was getting hung up on the “end” rather than the beginning or, “creation” part of it. This makes total sense!!
 
Barbkw said:
Nancy Pelosi attempted to use “ensoulment” as a reason why in her mind it was permissable for a woman to have an abortion.

Her thought processes are so inept at 70 years of age - she can’t even grasp the sanctity of human life.
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God bless her. As our heads fossilize with age, it becomes harder to change our ways of thinking. It doth behoove us to pray that that never prevents someone from a necessary repentance.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA.
 
A human body without a soul cannot exist.

The soul for these creatures created by God happened at conception. Irregardless of all your different zygote scenarios.
 
A2 is not possible, because according to catholic teaching, the spiritual soul of each human being is created by God himself immediately at the time of conception (i.e. fertilization). In this alternative however, one identical twin receives its spiritual soul at a later point of time.
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The Church does not definitively teach that the soul is immediately infused at the moment of conception. I do, however, think that is a correct theory. According to the A2 argument, only one person is conceived, while the other’s body comes from cell division. In such a case, the twin i.e. the second person would not exist until a moment after the first person.

A2 appears tenable.

A1 also appears tenable since the Church does not define that a spiritual soul is immediately infused. While I think he is incorrect on this matter, St. Thomas Aquinas theorized that a non-spiritual soul might animate the body before a spiritual soul is infused (which he thought occured 40-60 days after conception).

A3 and A4 do indeed violate the very hylomorphic model and are impossible.
 
Buntspecht said:
A2 is not possible, because according to catholic teaching, the spiritual soul of each human being is created by God himself immediately at the time of conception (i.e. fertilization). In this alternative however, one identical twin receives its spiritual soul at a later point of time.
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I suspect you are working from an unnecessarily narrow definition of “conception.” Fertilization is certainly the usual time of conception. In the case of twinning, the division is essentially a clone splitting off of what was originally one mass. There is certainly room to consider the twin to have been conceived at the moment of twinning as opposed to the moment of fertilization. Thus, A2 is a possible understanding.
 
Della said:
The human soul is what animates a human body. It doesn’t “enter” a body, it is intrinsic to it. The instant a human being begins to exist s/he is a body and soul. S/he isn’t a body that “acquires” a soul.
Click to expand...
This is a concise and beautiful explaination.
 
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