When does "checking out" women become lust?

[Dtmccameron]

I don’t see how this could be. Could you explain?​

But, I’m not. What I am - and, what I want to be - is for her. Not for me. But, clearly, if your female counterpart knows, or senses, that you are not aroused (a species of “lust”, in my opinion) by her, then, she has every right to feel less than a woman who can command your attentions (and, intentions).

jd

I was referencing your lack of sexual desire, if that’s what it was at all. If that’s what it was, I meant to say that, since the act is a giving of yourself to her, the act would be more of a gift since you wouldn’t be like most pathetic husbands, tearing away at their long sought after goal.

---

You’ll have to forgive my seeing of lust as having nothing whatsoever to do with sexual arousal, and everything to do with sin. I see it as a perversion of Love, but then again, all vices are.

Don’t you think it in any way disturbing that the wife would feel disapointed that she couldn’t *control *you? *Manipulate *your feelings? After all, we’re called to modesty and chastity even within marriage!\

Why is sex such a big deal? Shouldn’t she be content that you love her, serve her, that she is faithful to you, and you to her?

Just a bit…eerie to me.

Adopt a baby. You’ll both be too drained to have any enegery for anything…else.

Have you talked to her about the subject? After all, if it’s going to be such a deal breaker for her, perhaps she’s not the “right one”.

 

[chevalier]

JDaniel, a woman has the right to feel desired by the man she loves and she has the right to attention. However, when she wants to *command *the attention and she wants that man to desire her animalistically, independently of his will and so on and so forth, it’s a domination issue on her part. Some women pull off the “show me that you love me” trick too, not only men. God needs to be more important than she is and if she is not ready to accept a second place after God, then she’s not ready for marriage and she’s not good marriage material for you. Don’t marry anyone who will make it harder on you to get into heaven instead of easier. You deserve a woman who will make it easier for you, in a faithful community with you within the Church. Not someone who will try to manipulate or dominate you.

 

[wcknight]

As a teenager I struggle with this as well. This topic and related sins make up 99.9% of my weekly confessions. Everyone’s advice here is very good, but many times its unavoidable not to have sexual thoughts about a woman. I’ve tried just looking at the ground in front of me to avoid it as much as possible when walking somewhere, but then there are the dreaded stairs. I always try to pray a Hail Mary when I start to have thoughts about a woman. That seems to help. Just something you have to struggle with and hope it will die down in about 50 years or so.

Pax Vobiscum

You and just about 90+% of young guys out there. Yes it does diminish with time, and when it does, your wife will be the first to let you know about it. Time probably varies from 30 to 40 years. I guess that’s why there is so many sex arousal aids on the market these days. On the bright side, it makes for far fewer confessions.

I’ve said my fair share of Hail Marys, now it’s said for the reverse effect.

 

[Non_sum_dignus]

I’d say that the essence of lust is objectification. We’re hard-wired for sexual attraction. Mating instinct is part of the animal. We are also gifted, however, with reason.

We are all unique human souls that carry a spark of the divine. We must always strive to view each other in that way. Lust occurs when we forget that and start thinking of each other in purely carnal terms. People exist to know, love, and serve the Lord, not as objects of predatory games.

So, my strategy has been to focus on women I see as children of God after the first visual reaction has passed. This is, of course, more difficult in a culture so permeated by immodesty. When I see a woman dressed immodestly now, I try to focus more on the sadness that she is presenting herself as a slab of meat instead of a beloved child of God.

 

[Dtmccameron]

So, my strategy has been to focus on women I see as children of God after the first visual reaction has passed. This is, of course, more difficult in a culture so permeated by immodesty. When I see a woman dressed immodestly now, I try to focus more on the sadness that she is presenting herself as a slab of meat instead of a beloved child of God.

Aha! Yes! There it is!

My only problem…I tend to talk to the posters and billboards as I walk by…

“Ooooh, sister!!! :tsktsk: Where is your mother?!?!? What lies must they have told you? What pain must their words have soothed that you might do this?”

sigh It really is a tragedy.

 

[Non_sum_dignus]

Aha! Yes! There it is!

My only problem…I tend to talk to the posters and billboards as I walk by…

“Ooooh, sister!!! :tsktsk: Where is your mother?!?!? What lies must they have told you? What pain must their words have soothed that you might do this?”

sigh It really is a tragedy.

I’m usually too personally offended by gratuitious sex in advertising to be sympathetic to the models. I’m so tired of advertisers jerking me around by my endocrine system, and I’m furious that my children have to navigate such poisonous images.

 

[JDaniel]

JDaniel, a woman has the right to feel desired by the man she loves and she has the right to attention. However, when she wants to *command *the attention and she wants that man to desire her animalistically, independently of his will and so on and so forth, it’s a domination issue on her part. Some women pull off the “show me that you love me” trick too, not only men. God needs to be more important than she is and if she is not ready to accept a second place after God, then she’s not ready for marriage and she’s not good marriage material for you. Don’t marry anyone who will make it harder on you to get into heaven instead of easier. You deserve a woman who will make it easier for you, in a faithful community with you within the Church. Not someone who will try to manipulate or dominate you.

Good reply. Makes a lot of sense. Thanks. I am finding myself heading in that direction, interestingly.

jd

 

[JDaniel]

I was referencing your lack of sexual desire, if that’s what it was at all. If that’s what it was, I meant to say that, since the act is a giving of yourself to her, the act would be more of a gift since you wouldn’t be like most pathetic husbands, tearing away at their long sought after goal.

Well, of course, there is the fear that my mind will carry current, appropriate rejection too far, and she’ll lose her attractiveness (to me) and perhaps never again be attractive to me.

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You’ll have to forgive my seeing of lust as having nothing whatsoever to do with sexual arousal, and everything to do with sin. I see it as a perversion of Love, but then again, all vices are.

Is there only one species of Lust? Can Lust, or Lustfulness, be a genus and have species under it that aren’t sin? Such as a loving, playfull lustyness that does not defile?

Don’t you think it in any way disturbing that the wife would feel disapointed that she couldn’t *control *you? *Manipulate *your feelings? After all, we’re called to modesty and chastity even within marriage!

Actually, she’s just a girlfriend right now. But, this is also a concern. Good point.

Why is sex such a big deal? Shouldn’t she be content that you love her, serve her, that she is faithful to you, and you to her?

Do you think it abnormal that a woman wants to “know” how sex WILL be? In other words, all things being equal, and me being everything she wants in every other way, do you think it normal, albeit immoral, to want to find out whether that last bit of information will solidify the union?

Adopt a baby. You’ll both be too drained to have any enegery for anything…else.

That won’t work: she has two children and I have three. They’re mostly grown up but regularly insert themselves in each of our lives.

Have you talked to her about the subject?

Almost daily.

After all, if it’s going to be such a deal breaker for her, perhaps she’s not the “right one”.

Something to be thought through.

Thanks,
jd

 

[JDaniel]

JDaniel, a woman has the right to feel desired by the man she loves and she has the right to attention. However, when she wants to *command *the attention and she wants that man to desire her animalistically, independently of his will and so on and so forth, it’s a domination issue on her part. Some women pull off the “show me that you love me” trick too, not only men. God needs to be more important than she is and if she is not ready to accept a second place after God, then she’s not ready for marriage and she’s not good marriage material for you. Don’t marry anyone who will make it harder on you to get into heaven instead of easier. You deserve a woman who will make it easier for you, in a faithful community with you within the Church. Not someone who will try to manipulate or dominate you.

I know you’re right. She has been “dumped” by two other men, her ex-husband and her ex-boyfriend, so, she’s reeling a bit. I, on the other hand, hope she will change in this regard.

Thanks,
jd

 

[chevalier]

I know you’re right. She has been “dumped” by two other men, her ex-husband and her ex-boyfriend, so, she’s reeling a bit. I, on the other hand, hope she will change in this regard.

I think she has rejection issues. She wants to be accepted. Perhaps telling her that only right way of accepting her is by accepting her entirely and totally and for as long as you both live, as a whole person and not just her sexual expression, is in the sacramental marriage, could work. Stranger things have happened. You never know until you try. If veteran seducers capitulate, so can women with a hurt personality approach the light.

 

[fbl9]

I think she has rejection issues. She wants to be accepted. Perhaps telling her that only right way of accepting her is by accepting her entirely and totally and for as long as you both live, as a whole person and not just her sexual expression, is in the sacramental marriage, could work. Stranger things have happened. You never know until you try. If veteran seducers capitulate, so can women with a hurt personality approach the light.

wise words indeed:thumbsup:

 

[chevalier]

One more thing. Wanting to get a taste before marriage is focusing too much on the technical side of it. But where it comes from is the lack of faith that it will work out if you don’t try before. However, no amount of your trying can do a fraction of what the smallest bit of God’s grace can do. You have enough grace from God in the sacrament of marriage. In the sin of fornication, you have the opposite - you have something that turns you away from God and closes you to grace. It takes a leap of faith, but if you tell her what it is about, she might make it.

 

[JDaniel]

One more thing. Wanting to get a taste before marriage is focusing too much on the technical side of it. But where it comes from is the lack of faith that it will work out if you don’t try before. However, no amount of your trying can do a fraction of what the smallest bit of God’s grace can do. You have enough grace from God in the sacrament of marriage. In the sin of fornication, you have the opposite - you have something that turns you away from God and closes you to grace. It takes a leap of faith, but if you tell her what it is about, she might make it.

chevalier:

I was going to say something flippant like, “With a handle like ‘chevalier’, that’s easy for you to say.”

Anyway, thanks immensely for the profound words.

jd

 

[MetalMark]

Admiring beauty usually is followed by wanting to engage in sexual acts. Same is true if you smell food. First thought: That smells good! Second thought: I’d like to eat some of that.

LOL

 

[Chris_LaRock]

LOL

Well, it’s true. Why admire the body of a member of the opposite sex if carnal desire isn’t behind it?

 

[chevalier]

Not always. A mother might well admire the masculine features of her son, which are similar to his father’s or her own father’s. A brother may very well know that his sister is a beautiful woman or that his mother has beautiful hands or that a friend has very pretty hair. None of these will be sexual, even if a notion of attractiveness is present.

 

[Chris_LaRock]

Not always. A mother might well admire the masculine features of her son, which are similar to his father’s or her own father’s. A brother may very well know that his sister is a beautiful woman or that his mother has beautiful hands or that a friend has very pretty hair. None of these will be sexual, even if a notion of attractiveness is present.

I can see that. But I was thinking more along the lines of looking at someone of the oppisite sex who isn’t related to you.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Maybe it’s like the five seconds rule when you drop something on the ground. Looking at chicks for five seconds is sanctioned…after the five you enter lustville

 

[spunjalebi]

I honestly feel bad for guys in this respect. I know I’m a lady invading this very male-focused topic but there is something I personally wonder. What if a guy can’t “help” getting aroused? For instance…er…when my husband and I first started dating, he told me that just being in my presence got him, how do I say it? Something about the color of the sky And I doubt he had his thoughts entirely about getting me into bed, because during these times we’d actually have conversations. My husband isn’t that much of a multi-tasker!

What happens to guys if, after just looking at a woman for a few seconds, get physical arousal? Even if their thoughts have nothing to do with lusting? That’s like saying men who have wet dreams which are erotic are sinning. You can’t help what you dream!

 

[mcteague]

I find most of the comments here about lust to be incredibly stupid. Let be suggest a way of thinking about this that makes more sense.
As a human, you are going to notice certain people and have a sexual response to them. That is normal. However a person is more than their physical attributes. When we persist in seeing someone only as the object of our sexual desire we deny the totality of their being. We dehumanize them.
This is true for things other than physical attributes. If we see only some ones wealth or intellect we also deny the totality of that person
Lust is not sexual attraction. Lust is the viewing of another person exclusively as a sexual object. But our first reaction to another is often sexual, so that creates a dilemma.

I would say that if you find yourself drawn to someone sexually and after some reasonable period of time can not extend your thoughts beyond the purely sexual, then you are committing lust.

Reasonable is normally a few moments, but it might sometimes be longer. So if you have a passing curiosity about what someone looks like naked, or even wonder what sex with them would be like, you are simply being human. But if you find yourself never wondering what they are really like or desiring to have a non sexual interaction, you are being lustful.

That kind of dehumanizing thinking should be avoided because it is wrong whether you are a Catholic or not.