When does honesty become gossip?

[AbideWithMe]

Advice I need to tattoo on my wrist. “Mind your own business, Pelagia.”

 

[PelagiathePenit]

The ideal is to have a balance between kindness, mercy, and honesty. I don’t think the truth should be compromised to spare someone’s feelings. Clarity is important. There is merit in my line of thinking. People should be able to freely express their feelings. There is a continuum of sensitivity. I wonder why some people are more or less sensitive or bothered by certain things. Perhaps in an ideal world people wouldn’t be so easily bothered by people’s disapproving opinions and would be far more responsible, grateful, humble, forgiving and thickskinned.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

The ideal is to have a balance between kindness, mercy, and honesty.

Yes.

I don’t think the truth should be compromised to spare someone’s feelings.

Whoops. Where did the kindness and mercy go?

Clarity is important.

Clarity of intent? Yes, to you and to the receiver.

There is merit in my line of thinking.

There can be.

People should be able to freely express their feelings.

Um…why? If someone freely expressing their feelings brings negativity into my life they will not be in my live for long. You see, I’m quite aware of my short comings, and other’s short comings, and the human condition. Do you know what I don’t hear about? When someone does good. Why? There are people who cannot share anything positive about someone else. They can’t give a compliment directly or indirectly. I had a coworker who seemed to only make digs or negative comments and when she tried to compliment someone she almost seemed to choke on it. Her’s was a severe case but I know many others probably because of the culture I live in. I really don’t want to hear it. If someone starts gossiping negatively I will shut it down by either stating something positive about that person or, even better, something positive that the person being gossiped about said about the gossiper.

There is a continuum of sensitivity. I wonder why some people are more or less sensitive or bothered by certain things.

Temperament is one reason.There are many books on the 4 temperaments including a few by Catholics; I think it’s worth reading up on as there are both strengths and weaknesses with each.

Perhaps in an ideal world people wouldn’t be so easily bothered by people’s disapproving opinions and would be far more responsible, grateful, humble, forgiving and thickskinned.

I think this is an interesting idea but it doesn’t sound like an ideal. Rather it sounds like a characteristic of a cult or some dystopian society. Have you read The Circle? Not the movie, I don’t think 2 hours was enough to portray all the nuances that unfold in the book. The story isn’t about freely expressing feelings but transparency. The difference is that transparency is something not just about others but about oneself. That is supposed to develop people who are responsible, grateful, humble, etc. As far as thick-skinned, I find that many people who are thick-skinned are insensitive toward others and not inclined to change or practice things that others bring to their attention. In other words, it’s a one-way thing.

I have to ask, how do you receive criticism? Do you accept it humbly? Do you try to change? Do you receive criticism the same if it has merit versus no having merit? Do you say that you appreciate when someone is honest with you but then get defensive? I ask the last one because I know three women who very specifically said that they appreciated that kind of honesty but after getting some criticism (not from me) grumbled or lashed out. Also, how freely to you give compliments, or words of encouragement? I

BTW, I don’t intend for you to be compelled to answer any of the questions above on a public post. I’m interested, but they are things I would ask myself and you should ask yourself.

 

[PelagiathePenit]

Finding the balance to acknowledge the good and the bad in someone. Actually, looking for the beauty in nature or life, in general, is important.
"There is so much to smile about about " - Marilyn Monroe

 

[PelagiathePenit]

A good friend tells you when you are right and when you are wrong. A good friend will correct you if you’re wrong and will call you out if you are lying to yourself & others. Doesn’t mean we can no longer comment on other people’s lives? I think there has to be a balance of transparency and boundaries. People can easily take advantage of transparent people. Some people’s boundaries are so high, it feels like you cannot say anything to them.
Ideally, we should all be at the maturity that disagreements do not end friendships. Your friends should feel comfortable enough to share their opinions on your life, your choices, etc.
I was recently in a disagreement with a person about how they spent their money. As a family member, I think I can comment. She is not working, why is she going clothing-shopping? Some say I should mind my business, after all, she is not begging me for money. I was reminding her to be more responsible.
What happened to us being our brother’s keeper?

 

[PelagiathePenit]

Shouldn’t we be humble and learn to not take offense when someone gives correction or criticism whether warranted or unwarranted? It means this person cares enough for you to pay attention to you. A good friend acknowledges and accepts both the good and bad in you.
I don’t know why people do not like hearing the truth, correction or criticism. Perhaps this is a cultural thing. My immediate family feels they can say whatever they want to you. They see this is a looking out for your best interests when they point out what you need to work on. Perhaps, we need to learn to compliment others as well. We are relatively good family, but we can always be better. That is a notion we live by, I guess that is why my family can be so critical, we don’t believe in resting because we can always be better.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

A good friend tells you when you are right and when you are wrong.

That’s never happened to me. I’ve been accused of doing things I haven’t and been encouraged to confess something I didn’t do. Just saying.

A good friend will correct you if you’re wrong and will call you out if you are lying to yourself & others.

I literally don’t need this. I’m much harder on myself than anyone else and much more than I need to be. It’s not healthy or holy. I strongly suspect I’m not the only one.

Doesn’t mean we can no longer comment on other people’s lives?

I really don’t feel the need to comment on others lives, directly to them, or about them to others. I try to tamp down the urge when I get it. I find that very few people are that astute in their assessment of others and unless that person has authority or has been asked the world is better off not knowing their every opinion of others.

I think there has to be a balance of transparency and boundaries. People can easily take advantage of transparent people. Some people’s boundaries are so high, it feels like you cannot say anything to them.

That’s not a boundary; that’s a wall. I try to have good boundaries but if someone disrespects my boundaries repeatedly, they get a wall.

Ideally, we should all be at the maturity that disagreements do not end friendships. Your friends should feel comfortable enough to share their opinions on your life, your choices, etc.

I guess most disagreements shouldn’t end friendships but I find that I don’t trust someone who is pro-abortion or racist like I can trust those who aren’t. Trust is the basis of any healthy relationship. Those friendships might not end but they may not be what they once were. And how do you get that “we all” should be at the same place? Why do you expect others to be at a place you aren’t at yet? You could visit a monastery or convent where there is rule of life and fine a lot of diversity in maturity so imagine what it’s like outside of a community.

I was recently in a disagreement with a person about how they spent their money. As a family member, I think I can comment. She is not working, why is she going clothing-shopping? Some say I should mind my business, after all, she is not begging me for money. I was reminding her to be more responsible.

Is she ignorant of the right thing to do? You don’t need to placate her. At the most I would ask if she wanted some guidance from me.

What happened to us being our brother’s keeper?

You. Are. Using. That. Verse. Out. Of. Context.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Shouldn’t we be humble and learn to not take offense when someone gives correction or criticism whether warranted or unwarranted?

Nope. Too many people do this just because they want to hurt people. They don’t care that they are thoughtless. If they do not have authority over me or I haven’t asked them for their (name removed by moderator)ut, I reserve the right to tell them to talk to the hand.

It means this person cares enough for you to pay attention to you.

I don’t need that kind of attention LOL

A good friend acknowledges and accepts both the good and bad in you.

True, but if they hammer me with the bad and then flatter me when they want something, I don’t need them at all.

I don’t know why people do not like hearing the truth, correction or criticism.

Probably because it’s often not the truth, or constructive. Just someone’s differing opinion. And is delivered in such a way that is ham-handed.

Perhaps this is a cultural thing. My immediate family feels they can say whatever they want to you. They see this is a looking out for your best interests when they point out what you need to work on.

Maybe. But if the person already know what they are doing is wrong, why do you need to tell them?

Perhaps, we need to learn to compliment others as well.

Yes. A good constructive compliment will get more of desired result. I also will give sincere compliments on superficial things.The former is more difficult for me to make sound natural. I look forward to when I say, “You handled that difficult situation very professionally,” sounds as natural as,“I love your outfit!”

We are relatively good family, but we can always be better. That is a notion we live by, I guess that is why my family can be so critical, we don’t believe in resting because we can always be better.

Interesting. Does the criticism get results?

 

[PelagiathePenit]

Nope. Too many people do this just because they want to hurt people. They don’t care that they are thoughtless. If they do not have authority over me or I haven’t asked them for their (name removed by moderator)ut, I reserve the right to tell them to talk to the hand.

I don’t need that kind of attention LOL True, but if they hammer me with the bad and then flatter me when they want something, I don’t need them at all.

Probably because it’s often not the truth, or constructive. Just someone’s differing opinion. And is delivered in such a way that is ham-handed.

Maybe. But if the person already know what they are doing is wrong, why do you need to tell them?

Yes. A good constructive compliment will get more of desired result. I also will give sincere compliments on superficial things.The former is more difficult for me to make sound natural. I look forward to when I say, “You handled that difficult situation very professionally,” sounds as natural as,“I love your outfit!”

Interesting. Does the criticism get results?

I’m not certain. My family values honesty, realism, humility and reason. If they think you’re overreacting, lazy or in the wrong, they’ll correct you and tell you. See the bigger picture. Do you really not want someone living up to their highest potential? The flaws I see in my family everyone is anxious, slightly cynical, skeptical and critical. My youngest sister can be unsympathetic towards people who makes mistakes that she sees as 100% preventable. As much as she is a realist, I feel like she shamed people by calling them out as judgmental, mean, etc. It can come off nosy, controlling or a know-it-all. She’s lucky she has an opaque personality and well manages her life enough no one can say anything. Sometimes I feel like she thinks Superior to others by how she tries to correct everyone even if it is for their own good

 

[PelagiathePenit]

Before you say something, make sure you’re correct and open to different opinions. I don’t know why people aren’t mature to understand that we all feel differently about certain things.
Overall big picture is honesty. Criticism should be encouraged it is a way to improve. Perhaps there is a valid reason someone sees you a certain way.
Our family is high achieving.
At a certain point, people should know better and learn from their mistakes.

 

[LilyM]

Before you say something, make sure you’re correct and open to different opinions. I don’t know why people aren’t mature to understand that we all feel differently about certain things.
Overall big picture is honesty. Criticism should be encouraged it is a way to improve. Perhaps there is a valid reason someone sees you a certain way.
Our family is high achieving.
At a certain point, people should know better and learn from their mistakes.

Take some of your own advice.here. Accept the “different opinions” about what you have done, the criticism of what you have done, and the fact that at least the vast majority of opinion does not agree with you and never will.

‘Criticism’ in its truest sense does not mean insults. A real critic (say of art, music or theatre) will give praise where it is due and be moderate in their negative comments.

And in fact insulting people is an extremely poor method of getting them to improve.

I am sure you would have got much further with your friend if you had told her she was more than beautiful enough before the surgery and didn’t need it, and (without calling her vain or selfish or any other put down) talked about other worthwhile things she could have spent the money on.

Try making a conscious effort to avoid the insults next time you feel like you have to correct someone, and see if it doesn’t get you a lot further.

 

[PelagiathePenit]

Take some of your own advice.here. Accept the “different opinions” about what you have done, the criticism of what you have done, and the fact that at least the vast majority of opinion does not agree with you and never will.

‘Criticism’ in its truest sense does not mean insults. A real critic (say of art, music or theatre) will give praise where it is due and be moderate in their negative comments.

And in fact, insulting people is an extremely poor method of getting them to improve.

I am sure you would have got much further with your friend if you had told her she was more than beautiful enough before the surgery and didn’t need it, and (without calling her vain or selfish or any other put down) talked about other worthwhile things she could have spent the money on.

Try making a conscious effort to avoid the insults next time you feel like you have to correct someone and see if it doesn’t get you a lot further.

Fair enough

 

[PelagiathePenit]

This explains my position.
youtube.com/watch?v=Vigy85wepVg

 

[theBelgianDuke]

I don’t think what OP did was wrong.

A key element of detraction is that the information damage a person’s reputation. At least, that’s what the citations on this thread seem to indicate.

The comment was about someone else, and there wasn’t a valid reason to share it. However, mentioning someone procured breast implants doesn’t appear to be in any way harmful to that person’s reputation.

Since there are no damages, which appear to be a key component of detraction, it doesn’t look like there is a sin here.

Perhaps if OP had shared that so-and-so sleeps around with multiple dudes, there’d be a case for detraction.

But I am 100% open to correction on this matter.

 

[PelagiathePenit]

I don’t think what OP did was wrong.

A key element of detraction is that the information damage a person’s reputation. At least, that’s what the citations on this thread seem to indicate.

The comment was about someone else, and there wasn’t a valid reason to share it. However, mentioning someone procured breast implants doesn’t appear to be in any way harmful to that person’s reputation.

Since there are no damages, which appear to be a key component of detraction, it doesn’t look like there is a sin here.

Perhaps if OP had shared that so-and-so sleeps around with multiple dudes, there’d be a case for detraction.

But I am 100% open to correction on this matter.

Sin is in the eye of the beholder, I suppose.

 

[theBelgianDuke]

Sin is in the eye of the beholder, I suppose.

I mean, not really, though. Every citation they provided listed the ruining of someone’s reputation as a necessary condition for detraction. It just follows from the rules of logic (modus tollens) that what you said would, therefore, not be detraction and thus not sinful.

The only key assumption to question, I guess, would be whether it really didn’t ruin her reputation. I don’t think it did.

 

[PelagiathePenit]

I mean, not really, though. Every citation they provided listed the ruining of someone’s reputation as a necessary condition for detraction. It just follows from the rules of logic (modus tollens) that what you said would, therefore, not be detraction and thus not sinful.

The only key assumption to question, I guess, would be whether it really didn’t ruin her reputation. I don’t think it did.

Well I guess it is. You are literally the only person who disagrees. Most insist I did something wrong. So what does that tell you? Sin is not easy to define. What is or what isn’t our business to say? What about motivation? Sure someone could be honest. People can disguise their cruelty with honesty. The truth can be humiliated. The truth can be used to degrade or humiliate. Just because you’re telling the truth that doesn’t make you sinless. It is always our place to point out of other people’s faults. We may be perfectly correct in our assessment but that doesn’t mean it is right for us to do. Whose business is it that she got breast implants? Maybe she didn’t want others to know. Plastic surgery is personal matter to most. Sure others will eventually notice.
Just because something is true doesn’t make it right. I found out in the past a person contracted syphilis from a very reliable source. I’m not his girlfriend or doctor why did I need to know? I’m certain this person released this information out of spite or revenge. I consider that character assassination.