When Does Traditionalism Cross the Line?

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What I mean by “Rome, Eternal and Modern”, is that the Rome of Vatican II is much different than the Rome of pre-Vatican II.

Out of Curiosity-Why have so many people lept up to seperate the Sedes from the SSPX? It looks like you’re defending a group that is not in communion with the Church. If I were you, I would simply let it sit and be left. All I meant by grouping them together was that they both take Traditionalism too far.

Can’t someone mention Ireland and Germany in the same sentence? They’re both in Europe, but they’re both different!
 
carl36 said:
Do you think I’ll have a longer stay in purgatory for kneeling during the Agnus Dei?
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I cannot read hearts nor arbitrate the justice and mercy of God. But an open question to you or anyone else:

Why do you want to kneel during the Agnus Dei? Is it just a spontaneous development, or what?

:confused:
tee
 
I don’t think that it matters either way. If the praish you attend kneels during the Agnus Dei, then so be it.

As for me, I try to follow the documents of the Church rather than follow my own personal sentiment. 🙂
 
The thread is going off topic. Please return to the topic or start another thread to discuss other issues. Thank you for your cooperation.
 
To rephrase my question more in line with the OP
tee_eff_em said:
Why do you want to kneel during the Agnus Dei? Is it just a spontaneous development, or what?
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**What is it that makes kneeling during the Agnus Dei a traditional practice?
That is: Is it a traditional practice? I confess, it has been long enough since I have been to a TLM that I know not the rubrics, but I find this crib sheet from *Una Voce *America, which indicates kneeling from the *Sanctus *until Communion. Why would someone of traditional mind kneel during the *Agnus Dei *but not, say, during the Pater Noster?

In my experience, I have never noticed anyone attending a Mass according to the current Missal to kneel during the *Agnus Dei *nor do I know of any parishes/dioceses where this is the practice?

:confused:
tee
 
carl36 said:
Do you think I’ll have a longer stay in purgatory for kneeling during the Agnus Dei?
Click to expand...
According to many NO’s, you won’t need to go to purgatory at all if you obey the bishop, regardless of whether the Vatican approves what he does, tolerates it, or just plain closes its eyes.
 
tee_eff_em said:
To rephrase my question more in line with the OP

**What is it that makes kneeling during the *Agnus Dei ***a traditional practice?
That is: Is it a traditional practice? I confess, it has been long enough since I have been to a TLM that I know not the rubrics, but I find this crib sheet from *Una Voce *America, which indicates kneeling from the *Sanctus *until Communion. Why would someone of traditional mind kneel during the *Agnus Dei *but not, say, during the Pater Noster?

:confused:
tee
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In the Low Mass, you kneel pretty much throughout the entire Mass, except for the Creed and the Offertory. In the High Mass you stand when the priest sings, including the Pater Noster. No big deal.
 
BobP123 said:
According to many NO’s, you won’t need to go to purgatory at all if you obey the bishop, regardless of whether the Vatican approves what he does, tolerates it, or just plain closes its eyes.
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Hmmm…I’m thinking the original OP’s question might be answered here.
 
BobP123 said:
In the Low Mass, you kneel pretty much throughout the entire Mass, except for the Creed and the Offertory. In the High Mass you stand when the priest sings, including the Pater Noster. No big deal.
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Thanks. Though the crib sheet disagrees, I will take your personal experience as more normative.

And, I suppose I should hie me to the TLM more often – It is just made difficult by obligations to my family and local parish.

tee
 
tee_eff_em said:
To rephrase my question more in line with the OP

**What is it that makes kneeling during the *Agnus Dei ***a traditional practice?
That is: Is it a traditional practice? I confess, it has been long enough since I have been to a TLM that I know not the rubrics, but I find this crib sheet from *Una Voce *America, which indicates kneeling from the *Sanctus *until Communion. Why would someone of traditional mind kneel during the *Agnus Dei *but not, say, during the Pater Noster?

In my experience, I have never noticed anyone attending a Mass according to the current Missal to kneel during the *Agnus Dei *nor do I know of any parishes/dioceses where this is the practice?

:confused:
tee
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Holy Church does not in detail regulate the positions of laymen during the Eucharistic Sacrifice.

We are free to pray as we want if we are reverent and participate in offering the victim.
This can be see in the responses from the Roman Curia to questions about for example kneeling during communion.

I can’t see why you Americans are so conformist.
 
The kneeling topic has taken the thread off topic, please return to the original topic. Thank you.
 
carl36 said:
Holy Church does not in detail regulate the positions of laymen during the Eucharistic Sacrifice.

We are free to pray as we want if we are reverent and participate in offering the victim.
This can be see in the responses from the Roman Curia to questions about for example kneeling during communion.

I can’t see why you Americans are so conformist.
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I have placed my answer in a new thread, [thread=141929]Traditional Practice and Conformity (Kneeling During the Agnus Dei?)[/thread]

tee
 
So back to the original question-When does Traditionalism go too far?

Some ideas I’ve had are that this happens when people feel threatened by the changes of Vatican II. Others may cross teh line out of fear of change.

I suppose that the major hinge on which this thread swings is the people’s ability to embrace the Church no matter what. For some, that may be impossible, and for others, it may be a part fo everyday life.

Do you adhere to Rome, or do you allow others to lead you to turn? If you consider yourself loyal, how do you justify reverting back? So far, none of you have been radical. You’ve all been Catholic. Not liberal, not SSPX, not anything in between. For these things are “political” forms of the faith. They exist to make a statement, not to worhsip.

However, could they use their worship to make a statement?

Could this be where the line is crossed? :hmmm:
 
BobP123 said:
Well, according to Cardinal Mahony, they’re not too many of them anyway. So not to worry.
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Sorry, I don’t understand what you’re referring to… Might you please explain? 🙂 If you were referring to “attending benedictions” or whatever it was, I simply don’t understand what that means in the context. Benediction with the monstrance? Quite frequent here after mass on special days, also throughout all May and June after the evening mass. Special benedictions on special feasts? I’m at a loss.
 
tee_eff_em said:
I cannot read hearts nor arbitrate the justice and mercy of God. But an open question to you or anyone else:

Why do you want to kneel during the Agnus Dei? Is it just a spontaneous development, or what?

:confused:
tee
Click to expand...
I’ve never seen a mass in Poland without kneeling before the priest started saying, “This is the lamb of God.” I’m talking about pauline, not tridentine masses. I’m shocked that in some countries, that’s a sitting part, not even standing.
 
Do you prefer Gregorian Chant over other music?
I would get VERY bored with just Gregorian Chant. I like the polyphonic “classical” sacred choral music that was written from the middle ages through the 20th century. I like traditional hymns like “O Salutaris Hostia” and others. I generally prefer things written before the 60’s, but there certainly have been composers since then who are CAPABLE of writing good music (they just choose not to- or their music doesn’t get used by the Most Catholic parishes).

Do you receive Communion on your tongue?
ALWAYS

Do you read and embrace all Church documents?
No. I get bored trying to read them all. I’m more interested in spirituality. I read enough to make sure that I don’t fall into heresy, but to me they are only a means to an end- like doing math (only not quite as boring).

Do you try to find a Church with Tridentine Mass?
No- I love my parish, even though they celebrate the Novus Ordo there.

Do you like to atend Benedictions?
Yes

Do you like to sit in Eucharistic Adoration?
sometimes. I cannot kneel the whole time- I’m kinda big around and kneeling

Do you kneel during the Agnus Dei? (read GIRM)
After it- that’s what we’ve always done, everywhere I have gone- liberal parish or not.

Do you refuse to attend a Liberal parish?
If it is my only option for Mass, and I am obligated to go to Mass- but I try very hard to get to a parish that does things right and teaches the authentic Catholic faith.
 
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