When will the insanity end?

[Cathdefender]

The Japanese empire is older than the Papacy - IIRC it began about 40 BC or so. There were Pharaohs from about 2900 to 342 BC - which is over 2500 years.​

The CC has been around, at most, for no longer than 1970+ years. Which is a long time, but not as long as some polities.

Corruption in the Church can’t be shrugged off - for a very simple reason: the God of Judaism & Christianity is an ethical God, a God who demands righteousness from those who claim to belong to Him. That the God of Judaism is consistently an ethical deity, is one of the things that sets Israelite religion apart from any other in antiquity. That He is ethical is not a luxury which can be dispensed with - it is central to Who He is. And unless He has changed, or unless the God of Catholicism is not the God of the Prophets & the NT, He is as ethical as ever.

The Church is Christ’s, not ours or any creature’s. It must therefore have His values, His Gospel, the purpose that He gave it, & the Mind that was in Him. It cannot be used to evade His Will - that is to turn it against the only reason for its existence, that is, against Him. To make of it “a kingdom of this world”, with the values of this world rather than His, is to pervert & degrade it. So it cannot presume upon its foundation by Christ, or act as though it were not entirely subject to Him: the Jews did that, & God raised up Nebuchadnezzar to punish them for rebelling against their God. Men may be overawed by numbers - is God ?

Your profile states you as Catholic? The CC has been around since Jesus founded it. Do you believe this? Simple yes or no.

 

[Cathdefender]

Cathdefender evidently has a Eurocentric point of view when it comes to religious history.

Say what you like about me, at least I don’t have to come here under another name as yourself Hashem. You have contradicted yourself in so many posts it isn’t funny. (or it is funny).

 

[Sepharad]

Say what you like about me, at least I don’t have to come here under another name as yourself Hashem. You have contradicted yourself in so many posts it isn’t funny. (or it is funny).

Do you even grasp that I was not insulting you, but stating that you have a Eurocentric view of history? Do you know what “Eurocentric” means? It means you see history as being centered in Europe (which is perhaps natural for people whose ancestry came from there.)

As for my handle: I made NO secret of the change. I was getting tired of people replying to me and calling me, “Hashem” (which is God’s Name in Hebrew), when my handle was a sentence which means, “God is One”. It felt weird being referred to by God’s Name, so I changed my handle. Big deal.

I even posted the change publicly in the Back Fence forum of this site, so everyone would know that Sepharad is me.

Why do you imply deception in this? I went public about the change minutes after making the change. Surely you don’t expect me to explain all of this, about the change, in every post I make in every thread?

 

[Sepharad]

Your profile states you as Catholic? The CC has been around since Jesus founded it. Do you believe this? Simple yes or no.

What he is saying is historically correct: the Catholic church had a BEGINNING. And it did not begin at the dawn of time. Other religions are much older, such as Hinduism.

 

[Cathdefender]

What he is saying is historically correct: the Catholic church had a BEGINNING. And it did not begin at the dawn of time. Other religions are much older, such as Hinduism.

I don’t care how long anything has been around. I am only concerned about Jesus Christ. period. I am only concerned about my Catholic church. I have studied substantially other religions to get to know what they were and such, but my one true faith and loyalty is to the Catholic church and to Jesus Christ…period.

 

[traillius]

Martin Luther must be spinning in his grave. Did he intend this nonsense?

 

[Sepharad]

You’re right.

If the antiquity of a religion meant authenticity (as some like to claim), we should all be Hindus then, I suppose!

 

[Sepharad]

Do you even grasp that I was not insulting you, but stating that you have a Eurocentric view of history? Do you know what “Eurocentric” means? It means you see history as being centered in Europe (which is perhaps natural for people whose ancestry came from there.)

As for my handle: I made NO secret of the change…see this thread: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=246258

I was getting tired of people replying to me and calling me, “Hashem” (which is God’s Name in Hebrew), when my handle was a sentence which means, “God is One”. It felt weird being referred to by God’s Name, so I changed my handle. Big deal.

I even posted the change publicly in the Back Fence forum of this site, so everyone would know that Sepharad is me.

Why do you imply deception in this? I went public about the change minutes after making the change. Surely you don’t expect me to explain all of this, about the change, in every post I make in every thread?

 

[Sepharad]

Say what you like about me, at least I don’t have to come here under another name as yourself Hashem. You have contradicted yourself in so many posts it isn’t funny. (or it is funny).

You seem to imply I changed my handle to deceive people.

Maybe you need to see this thread, which I started only minutes after changing my handle a few days ago, and which was in fact, the very FIRST post I made under my new handle:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=246258

 

[ralphinal]

First, the church of nph was funny. Very funny, and I am 36.

Second, I did not know that HE had become Shepharad. Now it all makes sense.

Third, the “selling” of indulgences was a limited practice in both geography and scope. It was never a church-wide issue, but it became one. We can discuss this but it is not important.

Forth, there are not 30,000+ denominations. If you use a more logical approach, say by basic teachings, there are on the order of 30. If you apply more refinement in what is taught, the number increases. Now, if you go crazy, you can get even more, say nearly one billion, as each Protestant can have personal interpretation trump and church authority.

Fifth, at one time, all of Christianity was Catholic. No way around that. Catholics have made mistakes, but the Church has never taught them as being from God. And we soldier on.

Sixth, I wish I had a pre-made outline for posts like this.

Seventh, the “insanity” will never end for several reasons. First, the Catholic Church continues to allow sinners to join. As long as we do this, there will be fingers pointed at us as being wrong. After all, there are no sinners in any other faith system, right? Also, it should be pointed out that some ingrained theological differences are hard to overcome. I am not even touching non-theological issues here. It is just something that each person has to ddeal with themselves.

Eighth, there are some people who feel that the best way to discuss these things are from a position of superiority or one of coersion. I know that this is how Jesus did it, right?

Finally, and I have said it before, if Catholics were the Christians that we were called to be, there would be no other faith on the earth. We can blaim ourselves for all of the religious troubles.

Peace. Have a nice day. BE sure to tip your servers. I’ll be here all week. Cd’s and videos are on sale in the lobby.

 

[Cathdefender]

First, the church of nph was funny. Very funny, and I am 36.

Second, I did not know that HE had become Shepharad. Now it all makes sense.

Third, the “selling” of indulgences was a limited practice in both geography and scope. It was never a church-wide issue, but it became one. We can discuss this but it is not important.

Forth, there are not 30,000+ denominations. If you use a more logical approach, say by basic teachings, there are on the order of 30. If you apply more refinement in what is taught, the number increases. Now, if you go crazy, you can get even more, say nearly one billion, as each Protestant can have personal interpretation trump and church authority.

Fifth, at one time, all of Christianity was Catholic. No way around that. Catholics have made mistakes, but the Church has never taught them as being from God. And we soldier on.

Sixth, I wish I had a pre-made outline for posts like this.

Seventh, the “insanity” will never end for several reasons. First, the Catholic Church continues to allow sinners to join. As long as we do this, there will be fingers pointed at us as being wrong. After all, there are no sinners in any other faith system, right? Also, it should be pointed out that some ingrained theological differences are hard to overcome. I am not even touching non-theological issues here. It is just something that each person has to ddeal with themselves.

Eighth, there are some people who feel that the best way to discuss these things are from a position of superiority or one of coersion. I know that this is how Jesus did it, right?

Finally, and I have said it before, if Catholics were the Christians that we were called to be, there would be no other faith on the earth. We can blaim ourselves for all of the religious troubles.

Peace. Have a nice day. BE sure to tip your servers. I’ll be here all week. Cd’s and videos are on sale in the lobby.

9th, we are all being tested. If you know about the Catholic church, yet refuse to belong, you are in sin.

 

[SIA]

When will the insanity end? When will all the infighting stop? When will there be true Christian unity…unity in beliefs?

Because of the flawed doctrine of “personal interpretation”, today, there are approximately 40,000 different, Protestant, non-Catholic Christian denominations, divisions and subdivisions, each and everyone one of them, with a little different “spin” on Christianity.

I would like to hear a Protestant explain the logic or biblical bases for these divisions and sub-divisions of Christianity.

Personal interpretation has led to “mob rule” and chaos and it has weakened Christianity. It is the old, “divide and conquer” principle and we are dividing and conquering ourselves.

Imagine how much greater Christianity would be and all the great things that we could accomplish, working together as one faith, which was truly united…

The insanity needs to stop….Where living in a world today, where anyone who has a Bible can become a “minister” and start his or her own (Protestant) Christian denomination. People now can pay a small free and become “ordained ministers”, over the internet. Many people today are having non-denominational ministers perform their marriage ceremonies. What is a “non-denominational ministers” anyways…this does not even make any sense.

Some ministers make a living, just marring people. They have drive-through marriage chapels and Elvis impersonators who perform marriages in Las Vegas. There are ministers on TV who claim to heal people and ask for your money. Some ministers and preachers today wear Rolex watches, drive expensive cars and live in multi-million dollar mansions, all paid for with the monies that were given to them, with the intention that it would go to help the needy.

There is even a “drunken minister” on the Jerry Springer show.

All these so-called “Ministers of God” belong to some Protestant denomination. People today have made a mockery of Christianity and a mockery of Holy Sacraments, like marriage. The main cause of all this nonsense can be blamed on “personal interpretation” of the Bible.

I know that there are some good and decent ministers and decent denominations out there but with personal interpretation, even a “normal ministers” could error and join the ranks of all the other crazy’s.

Why don’t the “squared away” denominations, reign in the nut cases? They don’t, because they can’t…They can’t, because they too believe in the flawed doctrine of “personal interpretation” or, “to each his own”…right?.

I am sure that there exist some Protestants out their who are just as offended as I am with the breakdown of Christianity…What are your thoughts and how is anybody going to correct these problems, without central leadership, oversight and a chain of command?

I pray for true Christian Unity….

Peace

Jimmy B.

What is flawed is your statistics, your attitude that only your church is correct, and your messiah complex. First of all, there are only a handful of real Protestant faiths. Small roadside churches split and split over behavioral issues not because they each interpret the Bible differently. Your logic is what is flawed there and I think you know that. If you want others to stop kicking on you, then stop kicking on everone who isn’t RC. Stop the insanity Jimmy.

 

[Eden]

First of all, there are only a handful of real Protestant faiths.

Wow. You must have big hands. I can’t fit the thousands and thousands of Protestant denominations in my hands, they’re spilling out all over.

 

[ralphinal]

9th, we are all being tested. If you know about the Catholic church, yet refuse to belong, you are in sin.

Can you show me that in a Church document?

If you have been shown beyond all doubt that the Catholic CHurch is correct and dispite your own conclusion that it is you stay out or leave it, you are in a state of sin.

Just because you do not accept it does not inherently mean you are damned.

 

[Sepharad]

Can you show me that in a Church document?

If you have been shown beyond all doubt that the Catholic CHurch is correct and dispite your own conclusion that it is you stay out or leave it, you are in a state of sin.

Just because you do not accept it does not inherently mean you are damned.

I have a question: what if a person joined the Catholic church at one time (for whatever reason, I forget her reason), and later on, decided upon careful examination that it was not the true faith after all, and they leave it.

What is the Catholic definition of that person’s destiny? (I’m asking this because of a woman who recently contacted the exit agency I volunteer with.) I asked it over on the Ask an Apologist but they didn’t answer it.

 

[Nickkname]

Jimmy B,

The only one who can fix Christianity is he who founded Christianity, he who called the Apostles, he who died, rose again, and is now at the right-hand of the Father in heaven. I speak of Jesus Christ. No man or men have the power to fix Christianity. We can co-operate in God’s work, yes, by dialogue, good example, and, most especially, prayer, but, ultimately, it is God’s work - he alone is the Salvation of believers. He alone can restore Christianity to oneness, just as he is one. So let us co-operate with God, through God, and in God for the unity of all Christians.

 

[ralphinal]

I have a question: what if a person joined the Catholic church at one time (for whatever reason, I forget her reason), and later on, decided upon careful examination that it was not the true faith after all, and they leave it.

What is the Catholic definition of that person’s destiny? (I’m asking this because of a woman who recently contacted the exit agency I volunteer with.) I asked it over on the Ask an Apologist but they didn’t answer it.

It is too hard to answer.

Why did she join? What changed her mind? etc.

If she joined beleiving that my church was right and left thinking it, she is in trouble. If she was not sure or had pressure to join, it is different.

Only God knows the state of her soul

 

[Sepharad]

It is too hard to answer.

Why did she join? What changed her mind? etc.

If she joined beleiving that my church was right and left thinking it, she is in trouble. If she was not sure or had pressure to join, it is different.

Only God knows the state of her soul

I deal with a number of people with complicated backgrounds, so I have to try to recall exactly what her reason was for joining.

I think she said she joined as a teenager, due to influence from Catholic schoolbuddies, something like that…so its possible she did not TRULY know what she was joining. But she said she did believe at least some of the religion’s beliefs.

But as an adult, she began studying it in depth, and came to the conclusion that it could not be true, so she left and came to us (wanting to return to Judaism.)

(We don’t really get that many former Catholics seeking to return, its mostly former messianics and Buddhists, etc, so I think I am recalling her situation correctly.)

 

[ralphinal]

I deal with a number of people with complicated backgrounds, so I have to try to recall exactly what her reason was for joining.

I think she said she joined as a teenager, due to influence from Catholic schoolbuddies, something like that…so its possible she did not TRULY know what she was joining. But she said she did believe at least some of the religion’s beliefs.

But as an adult, she began studying it in depth, and came to the conclusion that it could not be true, so she left and came to us (wanting to return to Judaism.)

(We don’t really get that many former Catholics seeking to return, its mostly former messianics and Buddhists, etc, so I think I am recalling her situation correctly.)

Like I said, it is too hard to answer.

Let me give you an example that may be closer to home. Those who were forced to leave Judaism have no culpability if they never accepted the faith and then left.

Accpetance of some parts of the faith is not the same as acceptance of the fact that it is the true church founded by Christ who had authority to found a church.

 

[LJN21]

Indulgences were misused by the Catholic church a very long time ago. It morphed into more of a - I will give an example: if you say the rosary, or a novena, or a certain number of prayers - you will get x days/months/years knocked off of your purgatory time. Then it was deleted altother - I think Vatican II stopped all that nonsense. I think. But, it was stopped while I was young - just like eating fish on Fridays stopped.

Actually not eating red meat on Fridays never went away either, but most diocese in the US are allow people to do some penance or charitable work on Friday instead of abstaining form eating meat.

ewtn.com/expert/answers/fast_and_abstinence.htm

On the Fridays outside of Lent the U.S. bishops conference obtained the permission of the Holy See for Catholics in the US to substitute a penitential, or even a charitable, practice of their own choosing. They must do some penitential/charitable practice on these Fridays. For most people the easiest practice to consistently fulfill will be the traditional one, to abstain from meat on all Fridays of the year. During Lent abstinence from meat on Fridays is obligatory in the United States as elsewhere.

jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2004/07/since_tomorrow_.html

usccb.org/lent/2007/Penance_and_Abstinence.pdf