When will the insanity end?

[Syele]

Wow. You must have big hands. I can’t fit the thousands and thousands of Protestant denominations in my hands, they’re spilling out all over.

I’ll believe you if you list the “thousands and thousands”. If there really are so many DENOMINATIONS. then I’m sure someone has listed at least half them out precisely.

Remember, a DENOMINATION is a group of religious congregations **having its own organization and a distinctive faith.
**
Your neighbors aunt Winnefred who thinks she is the priestess of the Holy of Holies and has fish crackers and sprite for communion when she is alone is not a denomination, she is just a nutty individual. Even if she pastors a “Church” with a few actual members, She is not a denomination because she would still not be a GROUP of congregationS. the Westboro Baptist church is not a Denomination either… it has only one church, not a group of them.

 

[Cathdefender]

I’ll believe you if you list the “thousands and thousands”. If there really are so many DENOMINATIONS. then I’m sure someone has listed at least half them out precisely.

Remember, a DENOMINATION is a group of religious congregations **having its own organization and a distinctive faith.
**
Your neighbors aunt Winnefred who thinks she is the priestess of the Holy of Holies and has fish crackers and sprite for communion when she is alone is not a denomination, she is just a nutty individual. Even if she pastors a “Church” with a few actual members, She is not a denomination because she would still not be a GROUP of congregationS. the Westboro Baptist church is not a Denomination either… it has only one church, not a group of them.

Anything other than the Catholic church, is a denomination. And there are thousands.

 

[SIA]

Anything other than the Catholic church, is a denomination. And there are thousands.

you don’t know what you are speaking of. List them then if the thousands you speak of exist. This is the same stretched exaggeration the RCC uses when they proclaim how many members there are worldwide. Many of those who they count are folks who rejected the church and left it (but are still being counted) and those from third world countries who couldn’t tell you that they were human let alone Catholic. Untruthful statistics. They are used to attempt to fool folks into thinking that only a very few isolated cases of sexual abuse by RCC priests existed in comparison to Protestant abuse of course. They are used in much of RCC arguments but they are untrue.

 

[Syele]

Anything other than the Catholic church, is a denomination. And there are thousands.

Sorry, you don’t get to change the definition of an English word just to make Protestantism look worse than it already is.

A denomination is not the same as an individual or even a congregation. if you want to say there are thousands and thousands of congregations … go right ahead, no one will argue.

But think about it a few mins before you get mad and answer me… why do you want there to be so many? What is your goal? It cant be Christian unity- to accept that there are less denominations than you think means we are closer to being unified and would create real dialog rather than mudslinging. It can’t be to make protestants see the Catholic Church is one, cause you are only antagonizing Protestants who read it when you post things you cant back up.

 

[Sepharad]

Although I don’t consider my husband an expert on Protestantism by any means, I did ask him about the Protestant definition of “the church” (he is a former Baptist turned SDA who converted to Orthodox Judaism years ago.)

He said that most Protestants see all of the members of the various denominations, taken as a whole, as constituting “the church”, or body of believers…what Catholics would call “the Church Militant”, I suppose.

Is this correct?

 

[strngrnrth]

Although I don’t consider my husband an expert on Protestantism by any means, I did ask him about the Protestant definition of “the church” (he is a former Baptist turned SDA who converted to Orthodox Judaism years ago.)

He said that most Protestants see all of the members of the various denominations, taken as a whole, as constituting “the church”, or body of believers…what Catholics would call “the Church Militant”, I suppose.

Is this correct?

When I was Protestant we divided humanity into “the church”, meaning all we thought of as real Christians (though we had no frim way of defining who that was) and “the world”, meaning everyone else. A sign of the end we watched for was the church becoming brighter (Christians being kinder, more enthusiastic and more willing to share their faith, with sounder doctrine) while the world became darker (everyone else becoming crueller, more caught up in false teachings, and more confused).

 

[Famule]

Wow - we must of forgot to tell the Jews, the Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, and various other non-Christian/Catholic faiths that they were once Catholic … and should have remained that way. I’ll pass on that flavor of Kool-Aid - thanks.

Oh - about those indulgences thingys…
Cathdefender said “Indulgences were a great aid to true devotion, fostering a spirit of prayer and sacrifice in the name of Christ, not just for one’s own benefit, but for all the faithful.” I am sure selling them as a way to raise funds for the Church or Crown or to escape punishment for sins was really looked on favorably by God. My kids go to a wonderful Catholic school - but I sure hope they are not learning this stuff!!

God Bless!

Look, there are so many ways to gain an indulgence. Donating money to the building of St. Peter’s was not the only way. It excluded no one. Gaining an indulgence isn’t difficult. If you really read scripture, you will see the logic of the existence of indulgences.

 

[Cathdefender]

you don’t know what you are speaking of. List them then if the thousands you speak of exist. This is the same stretched exaggeration the RCC uses when they proclaim how many members there are worldwide. Many of those who they count are folks who rejected the church and left it (but are still being counted) and those from third world countries who couldn’t tell you that they were human let alone Catholic. Untruthful statistics. They are used to attempt to fool folks into thinking that only a very few isolated cases of sexual abuse by RCC priests existed in comparison to Protestant abuse of course. They are used in much of RCC arguments but they are untrue.

In this age of countless competing religions, each clamoring for attention, one voice rises above the din: **The Catholic church. **in which the bible calls “the pillar and foundation of truth”. Today there are TENS OF THOUSANDS of competing denominations, each insisting its interpretation is the correct one. The resulting divisions have caused untold confusion among millions of sincere BUT MISLED Christians.
Open up the yellow pages and see how many different denominations are listed, each claiming to go by the bible alone, but no two of them agreeing on exactly what the bible means…sad if you ask me.

 

[inJESUS]

Yes actually it’s sad.

 

[Jimmy_B]

Jimmy B,
The only one who can fix Christianity is he who founded Christianity.

Great, so what do we all do in the meantime?

 

[Jimmy_B]

What is flawed is your statistics, your attitude that only your church is correct, and your messiah complex. First of all, there are only a handful of real Protestant faiths. Small roadside churches split and split over behavioral issues not because they each interpret the Bible differently. Your logic is what is flawed there and I think you know that. If you want others to stop kicking on you, then stop kicking on everone who isn’t RC. Stop the insanity Jimmy.

Hello SIA,

All of your quotes are in blue-

“What is flawed is your statistics, “

Maybe so…So, does this mean that you will provide an accurate source for the correct number of non-Catholic, Christian denominations, with all of the division and sub-divisions?

“your attitude that only your church is correct…”

And what about your attitude that the Catholic Church isn’t “correct”? Doesn’t this cut both ways?

“First of all, there are only a handful of real Protestant faiths. Small roadside churches split and split over behavioral issues not because they each interpret the Bible differently. Your logic is what is flawed there and I think you know that. If you want others to stop kicking on you, then stop kicking on everone who isn’t RC. Stop the insanity Jimmy”

That’s ok, I can take it…

So, if I were to accept your logic and some others here, then, where does Jim Jones (Jones’ Town), David Koresh (Branch Davidians),Marshall Applewhite (Heaven’s Gate) and others fit in?

Are you implying that these individuals, did not base their beliefs and their named, denomination, on an interpretation of the Bible?

Can you appreciate my point here.

One could probably provide at least 40,000 individuals and “Christian denominations” that you yourself would not want to be affiliated with.

If I were “Protestant”, I don’t know if I would be arguing about the “number” of denominations, I think I would be more interested in defending the one I belong to and making sure that others didn’t think, that I believed in the same things, that some of the “nut cases” in history, who have claimed to belong to a Christian denomination, believed in.

It is these different beliefs, which causes - different denominations.

Thank you for your post.

Peace

 

[SIA]

Hello SIA,

All of your quotes are in blue-

“What is flawed is your statistics, “

Maybe so…So, does this mean that you will provide an accurate source for the correct number of non-Catholic, Christian denominations, with all of the division and sub-divisions?

“your attitude that only your church is correct…”

And what about your attitude that the Catholic Church isn’t “correct”? Doesn’t this cut both ways?

“First of all, there are only a handful of real Protestant faiths. Small roadside churches split and split over behavioral issues not because they each interpret the Bible differently. Your logic is what is flawed there and I think you know that. If you want others to stop kicking on you, then stop kicking on everone who isn’t RC. Stop the insanity Jimmy”

That’s ok, I can take it…

So, if I were to accept your logic and some others here, then, where does Jim Jones (Jones’ Town), David Koresh (Branch Davidians),Marshall Applewhite (Heaven’s Gate) and others fit in?

Are you implying that these individuals, did not base their beliefs and their named, denomination, on an interpretation of the Bible?

Can you appreciate my point here.

One could probably provide at least 40,000 individuals and “Christian denominations” that you yourself would not want to be affiliated with.

If I were “Protestant”, I don’t know if I would be arguing about the “number” of denominations, I think I would be more interested in defending the one I belong to and making sure that others didn’t think, that I believed in the same things, that some of the “nut cases” in history, who have claimed to belong to a Christian denomination, believed in.

It is these different beliefs, which causes - different denominations.

Thank you for your post.

Peace

If you are hell bent to stand on this argument then I would most surely say that for every 40,000 Protestant denominations, there are 40,000 different opinions of what Scripture says and what the RCC truly is amongst Catholics themselves. Trust me, I am an ex-cradle Catholic who saw it and heard it for decades.

 

[SIA]

In this age of countless competing religions, each clamoring for attention, one voice rises above the din: **The Catholic church. **in which the bible calls “the pillar and foundation of truth”. Today there are TENS OF THOUSANDS of competing denominations, each insisting its interpretation is the correct one. The resulting divisions have caused untold confusion among millions of sincere BUT MISLED Christians.
Open up the yellow pages and see how many different denominations are listed, each claiming to go by the bible alone, but no two of them agreeing on exactly what the bible means…sad if you ask me.

I totally understand that this is how you believe, but many other Christians do not believe this.

 

[ralphinal]

The fact is that there is not One Church. There are more than one. It does not matter if the number is 2 or 2 million. It is more than One. Jesus did not found his Churches but his Church. One. One.

Now, some of the more than one are close to being part of the One. Some are farther.

How do you divide it? It does not matter. I would say that there are on the order of three dozen denominations that have thousands of sub denominations. That said, it is still more than one.

 

[Jimmy_B]

If you are hell bent to stand on this argument then I would most surely say that for every 40,000 Protestant denominations, there are 40,000 different opinions of what Scripture says…

Thank you, I knew you would finally come to your senses and see it my way.

 

[SIA]

Thank you, I knew you would finally come to your senses and see it my way.

You totally took my post out of context and you know it. What you did here was unfair and wrong. Do the right thing and show the whole post and apologize.

 

[reen12]

quote: Jimmy B

Because of the flawed doctrine of “personal interpretation”, today, there are approximately 40,000 different, Protestant, non-Catholic Christian denominations, divisions and subdivisions, each and everyone one of them, with a little different “spin” on Christianity.

The real spin…was applied by Paul.

God had already offered pardon and peace, and a green pasture -
in the Hebrew scriptures. No ‘original sin’ via Saul of Tarsus] =
no need for a savior from same.
[There was and is no concept of original sin, in Judaism.]
The yetzers more than sufficiently address the nature of sin.
Actual sin.

Man is not born into this world - with originate sin as part of his/her being.
An ontological sin - ‘contracted’ from the first man and woman.

The Church is well aware of the ‘hinge’ nature - of the doctrine of original sin.
No original sin = no need for a savior from same.

389​

scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s2c1p7.htm

This might be more clearly expressed [take the spin off] - http://bestsmileys.com/fainting/1.gif
Original sin is the ‘reality’ - propping up all of Christian doctrine -
shared by all Christian churches.

Paul was a brilliant human being, and the finest theologian
that Chrisitanity has ever known.

Paul dispatched the problem - that he had to have known
would be critiqued…by equally brilliant minds:
[No originate sin - no ontological ‘reality’ [original sin] = no need for a savior - to “save” us from same.]

Paul put the floor under Christian assertions. He posited
the existence…of original sin.

Original sin is not only a flawed doctrine - it was spun
out of thin air…speaking of “spin.” :coffeeread:

reen12

 

[Cat]

Cathdefender, take a deep breath and please read this post carefully. I know you are passionate about defending the Catholic Church. So am I, but we have to do it using correct facts, don’t we?

There are NOT tens of thousands of Protestant denominations.

Yes, you see thousands of churches listed in the phone book (depending on how large your city is), but each of these churches is not a separate denomination. Many of the churches are part of the same denomination (e.g., there may be dozens or even hundreds of Southern Baptist churches in one city, but they are all of the Southern Baptist denomination).

I tried to explain the “33,000” statistic in an earlier post, but I’ll try it again. Perhaps I was too confusing the first time. Please tell me if this is still unclear.

My husband looked up the original source of the “33,000 denominations” statistic.

The organization that arrived at this number did so by considering the different countries as having different denominations. For example, “Christian and Missionary Alliance” is ONE denomination (I spent ten years in it). It is the same denomination in the U.S. as it is in all the other countries in the world–approximately 80 countries.

But the organization that cranked out the statistics considers each country as having a DIFFERENT Christian and Missionary Alliance denomination, thus they arrived at a figure of “80 different Christian and Missionary Alliance” denominations.

And this is simply NOT TRUE!! The Christian and Missionary Alliance is headed up by ONE denominational “council” which is headquartered in Colorado Springs, Colorado. This “council” runs ALL the C and MA churches in the world, in all 80 countries! It is ONE denomination, not 80!

Imagine applying this approach for EVERY Protestant denomination! Some Protestant denoms (e.g., United Methodist) are in almost every country in the world–according to this approach, then, there would be thousands of United Methodist denominations.

And this is just NOT TRUE!!!

Also, the organization who used this approach to arrive at the horribly inflated number of “33,000 denominations” considered the Catholic Church as a denomination. I didn’t call it a denomination, the statistic organization did!!! (That should tell you something about the organization–they didn’t do their research very well, did they?)

And since the Catholic Church is in every country in the world, the organization arrived at a gigantic number of “Catholic denominations.”

Do you understand now why the figure “33,000 denominations” is simply UNTRUE? It’s just really really BAD statistical analysis. The formula that was used is flawed really big time! We can’t use it! It’s incorrect.

So PLEASE stop throwing the statistic of “tens of thousands” or “33,000 denominations” around. It is really wrong. It’s like saying 2 + 2 = 5. Saying such a thing over and over makes you look ignorant.

We don’t need to use faulty statistics to defend the Catholic Church. Doing so hurts our credibility and causes intelligent people to stop listening to us. Would YOU pay attention to someone who insists that 2 + 2 = 5? Of course not.

Other organizations who have counted denominations have arrived at figures of between 80 and 300 Protestant denominations. If you were to analyze the list of churches in a phone book in a large city, you would probably come up with a figure more simliar to this than “tens of thousands.”

And this is still really bad. You don’t need to inflate the numbers to sober up non-Catholics. 80 “true” churches of Jesus?!! (or maybe even 300?!) Surely this isn’t what Jesus intended in John 17, is it?

 

[ralphinal]

The fact is that there is not One Church. There are more than one. It does not matter if the number is 2 or 2 million. It is more than One. Jesus did not found his Churches but his Church. One. One.

Now, some of the more than one are close to being part of the One. Some are farther.

How do you divide it? It does not matter. I would say that there are on the order of three dozen denominations that have thousands of sub denominations. That said, it is still more than one.

 

[Lepanto]

When will the insanity end? When will all the infighting stop? When will there be true Christian unity…unity in beliefs?

When men overcome the sin of PRIDE.