When will the insanity end?

[Jimmy_B]

umm Jimmy? Did you READ my post?

The info on the Popes apartment I said was there cause I was curious. And I said I didn’t begrudge him his accommodation. So Try **What **again?

I mentioned NO denominations and said nothing about the number of members nor when they were founded… Who’s comparing apples to oranges?

I simply refuted your outrageous claim that Protestant ministers are all going around lying to congregations about their mansions expensive cars and rolexes.

Hello Syele,

Nothing personal but you are wrong.

Yes, I did read your entire post, nice pictures BTW and thank you for the kind words, that you did say about the Pope, but most of the rooms are common areas, which a Pope would need to meet dignitaries and other Church leaders from around the world, not a "perk of the job” and none of the “rooms” are owned by the Pope.

Additionally, you used statistics for “American pastors with a congregation of 300 people” and cited salary amounts, when we know that Catholic deacons, nuns, Priests, Bishops and Catholic Popes are all unpaid, in all 2500 Catholic dioceses, worldwide.

We also know, that there are Protestant ministers who are multi-millionaires and in some cases billionaires. Therefore, don’t you agree that this is an example of comparing apples to oranges?

How is my claim, outrageous"? Are you implying there are not any - Protestant ministers who are cheating their congregations out of millions and then taking that money to buy mansions, expensive cars and rolexes? There are even some, who have gone to prison in this country (USA) for doing, just that.

Would you like for me to provide some examples? I never said that they were all like that.

Peace

 

[Tracy10]

Only when Christians realize how much they play into Satan’s hands when they attempt to destroy each other. Christians would be better off judging their own lives than focussing on whether another who leads an overall well-meaning life should be damned.

When will the insanity end? When will all the infighting stop? When will there be true Christian unity…unity in beliefs?

 

[Jimmy_B]

One more thing, the Catholic Pope is also the leader of a sovereign, nation state, which is a permanent member of the United Nations, with embassies throughout the world. …. apples to oranges…absolutely.

Peace

 

[Jimmy_B]

Only when Christians realize how much they play into Satan’s hands when they attempt to destroy each other. Christians would be better off judging their own lives than focussing on whether another who leads an overall well-meaning life should be damned.

Hello Tracy10,

What is your definition of an “overall well-meaning life”?

Moreover, isn’t your statement here, casting “judgment” on Christians?%between%

 

[Protestant101]

One more thing, the Catholic Pope is also the leader of a sovereign, nation state, which is a permanent member of the United Nations, with embassies throughout the world. …. apples to oranges…absolutely. Peace

You always sign your posts, “peace;” but methinks you prefer war, atleast when it comes to Protestants, and others who don’t agree with you.

Actually, “apples and oranges” are quite good mixed together, when it is done right. We make “smoothies” in the summer, with both of these mixed together,

It is possible to have “unity” in diversity, but too many, such as yourself, prefer unity by submission. One side loses, the other side wins. Only use “apples” and FORGET the oranges is your philosophy!! It is ridiclulous to attribute this kind of “unity” to Jesus, and to dismiss the pomp and ornateness of the Pope’s “accomodations” in such a trite manner.

 

[Jimmy_B]

You always sign your posts, “peace;” but methinks you prefer war, atleast when it comes to Protestants, and others who don’t agree with you.

Actually, “apples and oranges” are quite good mixed together, when it is done right. We make “smoothies” in the summer, with both of these mixed together,

It is possible to have “unity” in diversity, but too many, such as yourself, prefer unity by submission. One side loses, the other side wins. Only use “apples” and FORGET the oranges is your philosophy!! It is ridiclulous to attribute this kind of “unity” to Jesus, and to dismiss the pomp and ornateness of the Pope’s “accomodations” in such a trite manner.

LOL…good one Protestant 101.

Hey buddy, don’t confuse my love and loyalty for Christ, His Catholic Church and our Pope, with a dislike (or lack of love) for other non-Catholic Christians who are our brothers and sisters in Christ.

That’s why I usually (but not always) write “peace” at the end of my posts… so guys know.

War no… A good, lively debate…yes.

I can’t help it that it is harder to argue or justify Protestant beliefs. Maybe I should go “under-cover” as a Protestant for a while and help you guys out a little.

There are many things I like about, many Protestantism denominations.

Here… I’ll give you one thing but you’ll have to promise not to tell any of the other Catholics here; many small Christian denominations, also have a small, family type atmosphere, where many of the members are also friends, away from “Church”.

That’s why I like the Catholic, Knights of Columbus, all regular, lay Catholic men, doing charitable work together, “away from Church”. There are many groups where Catholics can spend time together outside of Mass but many do not take advantage of these groups.

Now, you guys are going to have to come up with a good, secret name for me, if I’m am going to perform some secret missions for you…as long as I don’t have to compromise my own faith, I don’t mind pointing out the good things about any other Christian denominations.

PEACE

 

[BartBurk]

Is there anything we Catholics would be willing to give up to foster Christian unity? Would we be willing to give up the rule of celibacy for example? Would we be willing to open up communion to non-Catholics? How about birth control? Or maybe we could say it is not necessary to believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary?

I’m not suggesting these things are wrong. I’m just saying it might be hard for a lot of Protestants to swallow a lot of Catholic doctrine they would be required to accept. There doesn’t seem to be much room for compromise.

 

[Syele]

Hello Syele,

Nothing personal but you are wrong.

Yes, I did read your entire post, nice pictures BTW and thank you for the kind words, that you did say about the Pope, but most of the rooms are common areas, which a Pope would need to meet dignitaries and other Church leaders from around the world, not a "perk of the job” and none of the “rooms” are owned by the Pope.

Still not sure what you say Im wrong about. I didn’t say the pope owned them (and never thought so either!) I live in provided, furnished housing myself. I know all about living in accommodations that I do not own. I said private rooms that consist of the popes apartment and I got the list of “private rooms” from a news article. I entertain people in my living room too… doesnt make it a “public living room.” I say mine cause I live here, not cause I own it btw.

Additionally, you used statistics for “American pastors with a congregation of 300 people” and cited salary amounts, when we know that Catholic deacons, nuns, Priests, Bishops and Catholic Popes are all unpaid, in all 2500 Catholic dioceses, worldwide.

What does that have to do with anything? I cited them because you said Protestant pastors are living in Mansions and wearing rolexes. Not as some weird attempt to say they make less than Catholic counterparts. (Why I would attempt that I dunno)

We also know, that there are Protestant ministers who are multi-millionaires and in some cases billionaires. Therefore, don’t you agree that this is an example of comparing apples to oranges?

I think the example is so rare and unusual as to be pointless to even bother including in the conversation.

How is my claim, outrageous"? Are you implying there are not any - Protestant ministers who are cheating their congregations out of millions and then taking that money to buy mansions, expensive cars and rolexes? There are even some, who have gone to prison in this country (USA) for doing, just that.

You made it sound like its the typical Pastor who dies that by comparing them evenly with Priests is living in Poverty. How about I cite the rare Priest who molested a child as a point against Catholics? that would be an even comparison. After all, some have done that. That is why its outrageous, cause its not a reasonable comparision to chose a few criminals to reperesent an entire Church.

Would you like for me to provide some examples? I never said that they were all like that.

Peace

I don’t need you to list examples of protestant ministers who ended up in Jail anymore than you need me to list Priests who committed crimes. The point is that you cannot create unity by coming up with the extremes of any group and applying them in conversation as if they were the norm.

Additionally, what percentage of the priests, deacons and bishops and alike, in these other denominations were unpaid?

I have never attended any Church that paid Deacons. I’ve been a Sunday School Teacher and Missionette coordinator too and don’t get paid for those jobs either. There are several Denominations that do not pay any Salaries to Pastors at all, one notable one is the Primitive Baptist.

The statistic I showed you says that one out of five Pastors work another job besides pastoring in order to get the funds to live. That number doesn’t includes Deacons and other positions (who are unpaid.) While that doesn’t exclude them from receiving any money at all from their church, what they receive obviously does not cover the basic needs… food, shelter, clothing. Since basic food shelter and clothing is is provided for Priests in the Catholic Church, when comparing them it is fair to say that this money received is not really a salary any more than proving room and board is a “salary.” Priests would have the advantage when it comes to standard of living over this system since they do not have to go and get yet another job to get money for food. Yes, I do consider that luxury to be a “perk” of the job. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Priests receiving the perk of Room and board nor for a Protestant Pastor to get a small amount of money to go towards their room and board. So why you are going on about perks and ownership of items as if they are bad in and of themselves is beyond me.

 

[ralphinal]

Parish priests who are not part of an order get paid. So do Bishops who are not part of an order. They do not have the vow of poverty. Sometimes, that pay includes use of a rectory and a car allowance, sometimes, it does not.

Now, by comparison, a Protestant minister of a church the same size as a Catholic Church will generally make more. There are Baptist preachers in Alabama making well into the six figures.

 

[Sepharad]

Didn’t Pope Paul VI donate his Papal tiara to be sold to feed the poor?

 

[ralphinal]

Didn’t Pope Paul VI donate his Papal tiara to be sold to feed the poor?

Yes, and if I can remember, it was bought and given back to the Vatican.

 

[Jimmy_B]

.

I like your enthusiasm Syele; you’ll make a great Catholic!

 

[Jimmy_B]

Catechism of the Catholic Church

1783 Conscience must be informed and moral judgment enlightened. A well-formed conscience is upright and truthful. It formulates its judgments according to reason, in conformity with the true good willed by the wisdom of the Creator. The education of conscience is indispensable for human beings who are subjected to negative influences and tempted by sin to prefer their own judgment and to reject authoritative teachings.

 

[Protestant101]

1783 Conscience must be informed and moral judgment enlightened. A well-formed conscience is upright and truthful. It formulates its judgments according to reason, in conformity with the true good willed by the wisdom of the Creator. The education of conscience is indispensable for human beings who are subjected to negative influences and tempted by sin to prefer their own judgment and to reject authoritative teachings.

True education of the conscience is done by the Bible. God’s Word is the Educator of choice for Christians - but not by their choice.

While education, training, and the counsel of those of experience are all essential, Christians should be taught that they are not to rely wholly upon any man’s judgment.

As God’s free agents, all should ask wisdom of Him. When the learner depends wholly upon another’s thoughts, and goes no further than to accept his plans, he sees only through that man’s eyes and is, so far, only an echo of another. There are certain Popes, for eg; that I would not want to “echo” in this way.

God deals with people as responsible beings. He will work by His Spirit through the mind He has put in all people, if they will only give Him a chance to work and will recognize His dealings. God designs that each shall use his mind and conscience for himself. He does not intend that one person shall become the shadow of another, uttering only another’s sentiments.

 

[ralphinal]

True education of the conscience is done by the Bible. God’s Word is the Educator of choice for Christians - but not by their choice.

While education, training, and the counsel of those of experience are all essential, Christians should be taught that they are not to rely wholly upon any man’s judgment.

As God’s free agents, all should ask wisdom of Him. When the learner depends wholly upon another’s thoughts, and goes no further than to accept his plans, he sees only through that man’s eyes and is, so far, only an echo of another. There are certain Popes, for eg; that I would not want to “echo” in this way.

God deals with people as responsible beings. He will work by His Spirit through the mind He has put in all people, if they will only give Him a chance to work and will recognize His dealings. God designs that each shall use his mind and conscience for himself. He does not intend that one person shall become the shadow of another, uttering only another’s sentiments.

Every time we see a post like this, and this one is very clear and well-written, by the way, the next question is why doesn’t everyone who reads the Bible in a state of prayer and dependence on God to show them the way get the same answers?

If two people are both at the same spiritual state, the Hole Spirit should lead them both to the Truth. There cannot be multiple Truths. One Truth, one Spirit of Truth.

 

[Protestant101]

Every time we see a post like this, and this one is very clear and well-written, by the way, the next question is why doesn’t everyone who reads the Bible in a state of prayer and dependence on God to show them the way get the same answers?

If two people are both at the same spiritual state, the Hole Spirit should lead them both to the Truth. There cannot be multiple Truths. One Truth, one Spirit of Truth.

Because God has never intended that we be His automatons. He is quite capable and willing to work with us individually; right where we are and how we are.

 

[ralphinal]

Because God has never intended that we be His automatons. He is quite capable and willing to work with us individually; right where we are and how we are.

SO are those who say homosexual love is acceptable right? What about baptism? Who is right about that? What about the rapture? I could go on

One Truth One God.

 

[Protestant101]

I could go on

One Truth One God.

You likely will…

 

[Jimmy_B]

Because God has never intended that we be His automatons. He is quite capable and willing to work with us individually; right where we are and how we are.

Hello Protestant101,

I’m sorry but I have to disagree.

When people come to different conclusions, based on their own personal interpretations of the Bible, they can hold different beliefs and opinions, which are in opposition of one another and this really becomes a problem when these disagreements involve matters of faith and morals.

These differences could literally be the difference between Heaven and Hell, wouldn’t you agree?

On the other hand, you no longer can disagree with me, my Catholic beliefs, or any other Catholic here for that matter, because according to your own statement, God did not intend for us to be “automatons” and also, according to your own statement here, “He (God) is quite capable and willing to work with us individually; right where we are and how we are.” That means that my Catholics beliefs are just as true as your Protestant beliefs…right? I don’t think so, there exists only one truth and many partial truths.

In my opinion, your remarks here do not work when applied to the real world. They may “sound good” but in real life they make absolutely no sense and when applied, they are a contradiction.

This is the type of “logic”; “the religion of one’s own intellect” that has cause much of the division we see today.

Your thoughts?

Peace

 

[ralphinal]

You likely will…

No need as you have yet to offer a valid reason that God wants confusion in Christianity.