When your wife is arrested?

  • Thread starter Thread starter BioCatholic
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
40.png
pnewton:
There is no way attempted murder would stand up to the level of reasonable doubt. Why she did not turn it on edge. Imagining what could happen if she had would just strengthen the arguement that she did not have intent to kill or she would have taken a more deadly blow and multiple blows. Instead she dealt a single blow that required a bandage and left the person angry, not dazed.

I do not support mandatory sentencing laws for first offenders because of the many possible variables involved. But then as I pointed out above (and linked to it) the only mandatory sentencing for domestice violence is 5 days, not 5 years as told. I can understand a cool down period like that.
You think it wouldn’t stand up to the level of reasonable doubt?

I can tell you I would not advise my client to go to trial on the argument that this incident would not reach the level of reasonable doubt. I tried too many cases. It has a higher possibility of conviction than you want to give it.

The 5 day sentance is not for an assault of this level.
 
40.png
ByzCath:
Unlike you and JCPhoenix, I have a zero tolerance policy on this. Assult me and its over, for my protection, but then this is from my experience with an abusive relationship. Once the physical violence starts, it does not stop.
Okay. I won’t.

I realize that this is an emotional issue for many and probably why we have such a divergent opinion. I know action must be taken in abusive relationships and would never be an advocate of inaction. It is a question of what best solves the issue of domestic violence. Divorce and separation are one answer. If ending the relationship is what is sought, then a jail sentence is the path to take.

If maintaining the relationship is desired, there are many other options. One reason I prefer sentencing options is that during a probationary period, all sorts of terms of probation may be added (such as counselling, drug testing, etc.) that will actual help to resolve the problem. Prison does not help relationships, it destroys them. I am not a fan of prison for one time offenders.
 
40.png
pnewton:
No. I openly admitted earlier I have a double-standard in this area. A husband is called to love his wife and lay down his life for her if needed. I assure you in the same situation I would not have had her arrested and would have refused testimony.
So it would appear that you believe that loving a wife would be to ignore the fact that she committed a crime that would be categorized as attempted murder, or the lesser charge of assault with a deadly weapon?

That doesn’t strike me as within the gamet of being totally selfless. Stupid, maybe, but not selfless.

You seem to be basing criminal law on the sex of the defendant. The “She didn’t mean it because she was a woman” defense isn’t gonna play in Peoria.
 
40.png
otm:
The law of Assault with a Deadly Weapon. One that is capabe of killing.
Once again, which is…? Never mind I looked it up.

“anything that in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing death or serious bodily injury.”

As you pointed out, it is the manner of use that makes a difference. Since the blow resulted in “a bandage”, I think even an incompetant attorney could argue that it was not used as a deadly weapon.

BTW - before anyone asks, the injury described was bodily injury, not serious bodily injury.
 
40.png
otm:
You seem to be basing criminal law on the sex of the defendant. The “She didn’t mean it because she was a woman” defense isn’t gonna play in Peoria.
No, I am not refering to the law, which should have no double standard. There is no compuction under law to press charges. If Florida has attempted to make it so, then I go back to what I previously said about the “duh” part.

Nor did I say I would ignore it. I am saying I would not press charges or involve the police. If I wanted to save our marriage there are many other actions that I could take that would not destroy it. It is not that I am stupid, as you put it, but that I take my duties as husband seriously. The promises I made, I made to God, not my wife and keeping them is more important than exacting justice for me personally.
 
40.png
pnewton:
Okay. I won’t.

I realize that this is an emotional issue for many and probably why we have such a divergent opinion. I know action must be taken in abusive relationships and would never be an advocate of inaction. It is a question of what best solves the issue of domestic violence. Divorce and separation are one answer. If ending the relationship is what is sought, then a jail sentence is the path to take.

If maintaining the relationship is desired, there are many other options. One reason I prefer sentencing options is that during a probationary period, all sorts of terms of probation may be added (such as counselling, drug testing, etc.) that will actual help to resolve the problem. Prison does not help relationships, it destroys them. I am not a fan of prison for one time offenders.
And I am not a fan of people who, in a rage, pick up a weapon capable of killing another, and assault the person they are in a “blind” rage with. The morticians have plenty of business without any help from those in a rage - men or women.

A jail sentance may be the best wake-up call she’ll ever have. Telling her without that sentance that she’ll have to go to a counselor; boy, that has lots of teeth in it, really likely to get her attention focused. She more than likely would tell you to take a flying leap.

Divorce? Who gets to be the next victim?

Quit wringing your hands like some bleeding heart liberal - I have more respect for you than that. But for the grace of God, she could have killed him. I don’t care how p’o’ed she was; picking up a frying pan and hitting someone on the head is more than sufficient to get a conviction of attempted murder.

Letting her continue on her merry way - either divorced or trying to insist that she attend counseling - is to lay either one’s own life, or someone else’s on the line the next time she gets into a “blind” rage.

Don’t get me wrong; he’s no angel either; he appears to be almost totally lacking in either dispute resolution or anger management, and I strongly suspect he may be very good at manipulating attitudes. But having said that, there is no justification whatsoever in her picking up an instrument capable of killing another and hitting him in the head.

She didn’t swing low and attempt to castrate him by force; she didn’t swing like a baseball bat and try to break some ribs or his arm. She aimed for, and connected with, his head. That is how you kill people. Can I make it any plainer?

And you think there is not enough evidence to convict of attempted murder? Not enough to overcome reasonable doubt? Do you think that rage is a defense?

“He made me mad so I hit him in the head with a frying pan, but of course I didn’t mean to kill him; I was just trying to get his attention. That’s how I always try to get the attention of someone who gets me in a rage. I just can’t help myself; he knew that, so it’s all his fault.”

She has four years to sit, very quietly, and contemplate her response to an arguement. She has 4 years to calm down, get some serious anger management classes, and make a connection between her response to the arguement and her living situation.

You suggest that a slap on the wrist isall she needs to straighten up and fly right?
 
40.png
otm:
Quit wringing your hands like some bleeding heart liberal
Why this label? Because I do not believe locking everyone up for the first criminal offense they commit is the best course of action? I totally agree with you that, “A jail sentance may be the best wake-up call she’ll ever have” depending on many factors. But you think I am a bleeding heart because I want to add the logical flipside, that it also "may not.

Realize we know little about the situation, including whether it is all bogus or not. If the first post was correct, did you notice how the church members there did not support his actions? It may be all of us here if he truly heard both sides would be like every one else in the the church.

I still stand by the statement that I could never do this to my wife. I base this solely on my promise to God I made when I took my wedding vows. It is neither selfless nor stupid to keep your oaths to God.
 
40.png
ByzCath:
And you find that amusing?
What I find amusing is that he was having an argument with his wife as her husband, she hit him, so he’s playing the I’m a cop card. And an auxilliary one at that.

They have a short training course, they are about the equivalent of security guards but work for the city/town instead for a company.
 
40.png
mjdonnelly:
What I find amusing is that he was having an argument with his wife as her husband, she hit him, so he’s playing the I’m a cop card. And an auxilliary one at that.

.
Well, what should he have done. We all agree that hitting her back would have been wrong. WOuld none of you have called the cops? I realize that the man took some of the law into his own hands but what about a man that isn’t a policeman? Don’t you think that the outcome would have been the same?

THere are some mandatory laws for processing abusers. In some states the woman can deny that her bruises were caused by her hubby but if the policeman even suspects abuse then he can arrest the husband-or wife, in this instance.

The story that I am about to give you is second hand knowledge, but I got it from my SIL so I trust the source. I am mentioning it merely to illustrate that there are laws in some states that take the matter of arrest to be out of the victim’s hands. Across the street from my SIL is a man who abuses his wife. Several people have tried to help the woman leave but she refuses. The cops have been called to the house and she verbally jumped on the cops for arresting her hubby. According to my SIL, who regularly checks on the woman, the man beat his wife so badly that he injured her leg. For several weeks my Sil had not checked on the woman(She was going through a divorce herself) When she finally did, she noticed that the woman walked with a pronouced limp. My SIL begged this woman to let her take her to the hospital but the woman declined. Her reasoning was that the doctors would know that she had been abused and legally they would have to call the cops. The cops would have to arrest her husband, something that she didn’t want. This occurred in southern Alabama. My SIL did not call the cops because I guess that she felt like it wouldn’t help. ALso, my SIL is escaping her own abusive marriage, so she was afraid to draw to much attention to herself. Her neighbor’s hubby is my SIL’s husband’s best friend.:mad:
 
40.png
pnewton:
Once again, which is…? Never mind I looked it up.

“anything that in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing death or serious bodily injury.”

As you pointed out, it is the manner of use that makes a difference. Since the blow resulted in “a bandage”, I think even an incompetant attorney could argue that it was not used as a deadly weapon.

BTW - before anyone asks, the injury described was bodily injury, not serious bodily injury.
This is true but I disagree with you on the point that because he wasn’t killed or seriously injured that a lawyer could sucessfully argue that this was not a deadly weapon.

Read the definition again, “anything that in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing death or serious bodily injury.” Notice it says “in the manner of its use or intended use”. When a frying pan is swung at the head of a person it is used in a manner that can cause death or serious bodily harm and I would argue that someone who is doing so is intending to do so.

So even though only a bodily injury was sustained, that does not change the fact that serious bodily injury or even death could have resulted. After all, we do not know, maybe he ducked at just the right moment to only take a clancing blow to the head,

As for your other argument, even if the relationship is one that they wish to save, this woman still broke the law and there are legal and civil penalties for that.
 
ok, i have GOT to clarify some things:

i am 27, graduating with an AA in EMS/law enforcement, a BS in Biology, and i am working on a masters in Pharmacology.

i got my paramedic as well as Basic Law Enforcement Training (BLET) in north carolina.

after my wife hit me, the FIRST thought on my mind after i could see straight was a hematoma. as a medic, i have seen it time and time and time again. closed head injury can cause a bleed in the brain and shortly thereafter, you are in the hereafter.

2ND—the scalp can bleed profusely, even from the smallest of cuts. some poor people fall down, hit their head and, wow, does it ever look like they lost every drop of blood. but the bleeding most of times is short lived. i felt quite alot of blood.

the reason i went to charles’ house is because he has somewhat a knowledge of first aid, and he could call an ambulance if i became unable to. so i went over there, told him what happened, and he helped me treat my head. i had a fair sized avulsion (probably and inch or so), which stopped bleeding after quick direct pressure and some ice and wrapping. all in all, 15 minutes tops to treat my head.

charles went with me to “diffuse” the situation, and when he saw the blood on the floor, he realized how serious the situation was, and he could not “look the other way”. originally, he said we would just go get my clothes, my contact lenses, my gun, and my work clothes and books, and i could stay with him.

that is when he called the police, and told my wife to sit quietly, say NOTHING, and do not make any attempt to resist. i was beyond furious and told her i was “detaining” her for assault until police arrived. i put my handcuffs on her and told her i would ask the police to make a formal arrest, and have her charged. even though it meant nothing really, i advised her of her rights because i was just beyond enraged. even charles told me that while we had the power to detain her, we had no authority to formally arrest her, and “sit down and shut up, explative”. he calmly told her this is something “that just cant go away”

so the arriving duty seargent is the one who formally made the arrest, based on my head, the blood on the floor, and charles statement that i came to his house and saying “she just whaled me with a pan”. the sgt. advised my wife that anything she said prior to this point COULD NOT be used against her, but anything she said from now on could. he wasnt the happiest with me, asking me “now what if she got your gun and was waiting for you at the door when you got back?”

the prosecutor had more than enough evidence from my medical exam, blood on the frying pan, blood on the floor, charles original statement and testimony, and the investigating officers’ report of my house.

now i understand that beyond this, my testimony to the grand jury, and other actions were simply making a situation that she created much worse. had i not said a single solitary word after that night, shed still have gotten jail time. the moment my neighbor charles saw what happened, he had a duty to report it.

my fault in all of this is the fact i added fuel to the fire and added more nails to her coffin so to speak. her sentence is appropriate under state law, and in no way were her civil rights violated.

i just could have, and should have dealt with the situation much better than i did.
 
hmmm, a thought as come to me about the intent to kill/lethal weapon theory …

Any woman worth her salt and serious about doing permanent harm could have picked several better weapons from the kitchen cache than a frying pan.


Not encouraging that! Just pointing out the logic many women (and men) would have about her intent. That, and her 1 slug (vs whopping him unconscience) would lead many to the conclusion that she didn’t want him dead.

**Given the above, I think 4 - 5 years is rather much. Especially as her "d"h is obviously not scared of her and perfectly able to move on in life. **

**As for the parish not supporting him. Support in what?? Like I said, it’s **a stupid, gosh-awfull, completely avoidable mess. I see nothing about that to support on either side.
 
ByzCath,

I did read the 2nd post, soory I didn’t post it.

Yes, he went back with another officer…when he should have stayed away completely.

And he said he was the one to handcuff his wife. He should not have been involved in any way, shape or form. He was therefore directly involved in the arrest of his wife when he should have been completely removed from the scene.

So the conflict of interest exists, even with the presence of another officer.
 
i just could have, and should have dealt with the situation much better than i did.
Yeah,

To start you could have told your fellow cop friend that he had a duty to not get your Sgt. down there to destroy your family and just give you a bandaid. All of this talk about how she wanted to kill you is nonsense.

If she did she would have finished you with about 8 more strikes. It sounds to me like you wanted this to go down this way. You have expressed zero regret or concern about the fact that your wife is in some Florida hell hole. I think 5 years in a state prison is insane for a little one inch boo-boo in a single mistake.

Let me ask you this. If you get into a little scuffle with a fellow officer that results in a little boo-boo on your head are you going to send him to the can for 10 years? I doubt you will and I think you wanted to get rid of your wife. She should get more protection from you as her husband.

You should do whatever it takes to get her out of a potentialy deadly environment. Take a minute and remember your vows.

-D
 
40.png
Darrel:
To start you could have told your fellow cop friend that he had a duty to not get your Sgt. down there to destroy your family and just give you a bandaid. All of this talk about how she wanted to kill you is nonsense.
Such nonsense.

She could have refrained from attacking him with a deadly weapon an dhere by not destroy the family.
 
originally posted by otm
And anyone who hits their spouse with a frying pan should not be married.
In a red rage, one does not think, only react. Had I had a frying pan in my hand when I walked into my own apt., I probably would have swung it. And had I hung around for the handcuffs action, I would have been so beyond rage that I can’t answer what would have happened.
It is correct, most of the time, that violence is never justified, however, violence doesn’t just happen. It escalates from something. The wife would have had to be very angry when this occured. And the question is, ‘what escalated her anger to this extent?’
I do not advocate violence but sometimes people are pushed beyond the “thinking” level.
Remember, we only have Mr. volunteer police officer’s account here.
It’s all Monday morning quarter backing. From what I’ve read on this thread, I think all our answers and reactions to this senario are colored by our own experiences. Mine is no exception.
 
40.png
deb1:
It doesn’t matter what name you called her, hitting your spouse is a betrayal of the marriage vows to honor one another. .
Good lord, it DOES matter that he called her something as this can also be a betrayal of the marriage vows. I would recommend talking to your priest as we obviously can’t get the whole story here. What concerns me is that you seem to indicate that you did everything out of anger. I think there could be a problem with that.
 
Her getting arrested for battery is one thing, she did hit him. But she hit her husband, not a cop.

The incident was not related to his duties as volunteering as an officer.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top