Where are all the large Catholic families?

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The only place/instance where I’ve ever seen anyone judge anyone else based on something as superficial as # of children, is on this website.
Try having more than two children in the Seattle area. If only I had a dollar for every snide, “Are you done yet?”, “You know what causes that, right?” and stuff that I won’t repeat.

In reference to the annual priest visit, I’m guessing that’s a little dramatic exaggeration, showing how backwards the Church used to be…caring for souls and what not.
 
In reference to the annual priest visit, I’m guessing that’s a little dramatic exaggeration, showing how backwards the Church used to be…caring for souls and what not.
Not really. The average family size in Quebec at the time was around 10 children. Families of 12-15 children were not unheard of. It was a calculated attempt by the clergy to boost the Francophone Catholic population as a demographic hedge against the Anglophone Protestant population that was in majority overall in Canada. It was as much politically motivated as religiously motivated. Quebec also had Jansenist tendencies at the time, and these were liberally used by the clergy to achieve their demographic objectives. Church history is not always pretty.

The result of all this is that while they won the demographic battle, Francophones were dirt poor and the subjects of economic and social domination by the Anglophones who held all the economic levers and subjected Francophones to overt discrimination.

There’s a reason why rebellion against the Church was so deep and widespread starting in the '60s
 
A relative of mine suggests that this is what the Traditionalists are trying to do - win the battle of the cradle - as it was in Quebec.

We have a large family, I have 8 in all, and in my neck of the woods it is normal in the TLM church, and unusual in the parish church.

To the above poster who suggested that it is hard to divide one’s attention between the children, I would agree. It is very difficult. But on the other hand, they do have siblings to form relationships with and get attention from too, and their siblings will be part of their lives after I am dead and gone. So, it’s a little trade off. A parent of many children has to learn to sacrifice also some of our own time (as in “me” time) and give it to the kids. It may be, actually, that I give them as much time as I would if I still had 2 kids, because I am thinking about where I spend my time…if that makes any sense.

I think the people who judge regarding family size, could be those that have just opened their eyes to life issues. So, everywhere they see a one or two child family, they wonder why. I think for a lot of people it is a way to learn. Maybe just answering with an honest answer like, “We had hoped for more children, but we have fertility issues” would educate them to not ask so many intimate questions, and be a gentle instructor in the virtue of charity.
 
It seems to happen more when I am around large families. I have been asked more than once why we don’t have more than one child.
How rude. I am glad my parish/community is not like that.
 
Try having more than two children in the Seattle area. If only I had a dollar for every snide, “Are you done yet?”, “You know what causes that, right?” and stuff that I won’t repeat.

In reference to the annual priest visit, I’m guessing that’s a little dramatic exaggeration, showing how backwards the Church used to be…caring for souls and what not.
Well my mom has 4 of us and I’ve never heard anyone make a comment to her, and neither have I ever heard her complain or mention any rude comments she’s gotten.

All I can say is, I’m glad I live in the area I live.

My husband and I have been married for almost 2 years with no children yet, and the only people who have been rude to me about it are the complete strangers on this site. If anyone ever has the nerve to make a comment to my face regarding the number of children I have (whether that be too many or too little) they better believe they’ll be getting a verbal slap in the face.
 
A relative of mine suggests that this is what the Traditionalists are trying to do - win the battle of the cradle - as it was in Quebec.

We have a large family, I have 8 in all, and in my neck of the woods it is normal in the TLM church, and unusual in the parish church.

To the above poster who suggested that it is hard to divide one’s attention between the children, I would agree. It is very difficult. But on the other hand, they do have siblings to form relationships with and get attention from too, and their siblings will be part of their lives after I am dead and gone. So, it’s a little trade off. A parent of many children has to learn to sacrifice also some of our own time (as in “me” time) and give it to the kids. It may be, actually, that I give them as much time as I would if I still had 2 kids, because I am thinking about where I spend my time…if that makes any sense.

**I think the people who judge regarding family size, could be those that have just opened their eyes to life issues. So, everywhere they see a one or two child family, they wonder why. **I think for a lot of people it is a way to learn. Maybe just answering with an honest answer like, “We had hoped for more children, but we have fertility issues” would educate them to not ask so many intimate questions, and be a gentle instructor in the virtue of charity.
Reaction to previously held beliefs?

Also, the area one lives in can have something to do with it. People living in more liberal Dioceses and that like to study a lot, can be prone to react more vigorously against liberalism and progressivism.

Blessings!

🙂
 
Well my mom has 4 of us and I’ve never heard anyone make a comment to her, and neither have I ever heard her complain or mention any rude comments she’s gotten.

All I can say is, I’m glad I live in the area I live.

My husband and I have been married for almost 2 years with no children yet, and the only people who have been rude to me about it are the complete strangers on this site. If anyone ever has the nerve to make a comment to my face regarding the number of children I have (whether that be too many or too little) they better believe they’ll be getting a verbal slap in the face.
My mother had four as well. When we lived in Houston, people thought it was strange to have four kids (this was from the late 70’s to about 1988). My mom remembers going with another family when we were kids to Disneyland and someone made a remark about birth control. My mom was turned off by that.

I’m glad to hear today that “three is the new two”, and I do have friends who married after 33 who were blessed to have healthy children.

Anyway, I have known Catholics with small families where other Catholics made them feel like they were “less Catholic” because they had a small family. Sometimes we assume things, but we don’t know their situations. Until about 10 years ago, I assumed any couple with two children was on ABC. Nowadays, I’ve changed my thinking, and here is why.
  1. I had two friends who were childless for six years, then they adopted 3 kids. No, they were not doing ABC.
  2. I know men who have struggled with infertility with their wives. After seeing the pain, it made them be stronger husbands. Quite a few adopted kids.
  3. I had a friend in college who was an only child primarily because his mother lost his baby brother in the womb and she had to have surgery (there were complications).
  4. Some couples are able to get pregnant within 12 months of their wedding, but others it takes longer. I have several friends who had their first child within their first year of marriage, but that doesn’t happen for everyone.
  5. Dr. Hilgers and other pro-life doctors (check out the website for One More Soul) have helped couples achieve pregnancy in accordance to Church teachings. Endometriosis can be treated with surgery, and Dr. Hilgers does this work.
  6. I also know some couples that had a “change of heart”, and stopped contracepting, including surgical reversal. These couples are often asked why there is a 6 year gap between kids. Some find this rude, while others will share their story. Without giving away too much, I will say that many felt something was missing.
  7. I will say marrying later has something to do with smaller families. I also think that many lawyers and doctors (both men and women) don’t think about marriage until they are about 35, due to the time constraints on education and work commitment. Marrying after 35 (or 40), the odds go down, but I do have friends who married after 35 who had three or more children.
In today’s world, don’t overlook “blended” families. Single men (particularly those over 40) need to be open to “blended” families. I know a few people who married a single mother (either widowed or annulled), adopted her child(ren), and a few even had more kids. Guys, don’t rule out that possibility.

I’ve also heard that many people today between 50 and 65 say they wish they would have had more children. One regret I have is that I worked 60-80 hours a week for several years. It did help me professionally, but it did come with some sacrifice.

I’ll close the box now.
 
There are a lot of different reasons why families are a bit smaller on average. Many of the reasons are very valid and licit. For instance, my husband and I would LOVE to have children but we are facing some financial issues that make waiting a much more prudent decision. We are far from postponing children to “enjoy the good life”. We are in a bad economy right now and the job market is unstable. We just want to make sure we can afford the things a child would need when we have children. If we had a child right now we would certainly welcome him or her, but it would not be prudent to “try” for a child.

If someone ever suggested my husband and I were less Catholic because we haven’t had children yet I would be extremely offended. We plan to have however many children we can based on our circumstances. We don’t need to be rich, we just want to make every effort to ensure our children grow up in a stable home.
 
I’m so sorry for your loss.

Right after I converted to Catholicism, I had a vision, just a few seconds, where I saw my mother in heaven. She was sitting on a giant staircase with many other older women, and they were all holding babies and/or toddlers. The Blessed Mother was walking among them and helping with the little ones.

My mother loved children and always wanted more of her own, but it didn’t happen. She talked about adopting or taking in foster children, but she was stricken with arthritis in her 40s and it ravaged her body and made her an invalid. She died when she was 72, all twisted and deformed by rheumatoid arthritis. She only weighed 69 pounds when she died.

But when I saw her in my vision, she was strong and straight and holding a baby and having a wonderful time. And I understood that she was showing me that she is happy in heaven helping to care for little ones who have died (or were aborted), and whose mothers are still on earth.

So try not to worry too much–I have asked my mother to take care of your little one for you. And it seems that the Blessed Mother has a lot of helpers that she has organized into care-givers for the babies in heaven.
That was a very beautiful vision. It reminds me of something my mom saw in a dream that she said was far too real to be “just a dream”. She had been worrying about her grandfather after he died. He had been a violent alcoholic in his lifetime and had not been terribly religious from what I have heard. When he wasn’t drinking he was a very wonderful man, though. After he died my mom was very worried about his soul because she loved him very much and knew he hadn’t always lived the best life. One night while she was sleeping she had a dream where she saw him standing with who she somehow just understood to be Jesus. He was very happy, and she was told not to worry about him anymore.

One time as a teenager I was very upset about something (cannot remember what it was) and I was up late crying in my room. It was very dark and no one else was up. Out of nowhere, I felt a hand and I immediately recognized it to be my grandfather’s. He had died several years before. I cannot describe it, I just KNEW it was my grandfather comforting me. I was surprised, but not scared- which is odd because you would think that would be scary in a completely dark room. It only lasted a second. I just felt very at peace after I felt that hand on me and I got tired and went to sleep. I guess God just knew I needed my grandfather’s comfort. 🙂
 
I wonder if sometimes, you don’t see the large families all together because they “split up” Masses, with Dad taking some of the children to Mass while Mom stays home, and then Mom goes with the other children while Dad stays home. Or perhaps when one child is sick, perhaps the whole family stays home because they don’t wish to take a chance that they might be contagious and spread “germs” to older parishioners.

We don’t always see the large families in the parish schools because to save costs, some large families choose to homeschool rather than attend the parish schools.

Keep in mind that in today’s economy, many parents simply cannot afford to care for more than a few children. Yes, some of you are excellent at economizing and living on pennies, but not everyone is able to do that. Money woes are one of the major factors in troubled marriages.

Also, it’s amazing how many couples are unable to conceive. We take fertility for granted, but not everyone is so blessed.

I think we should respect each couple’s decision about family size and never judge their spirituality or the spirituality of their parish by how many children are in the family.
Exactly. We never know all the circumstances behind the “small” families we see at Mass – both OF and EF. It is always best to assume that smaller families are NOT due to a casual disregard for life (use of contraception or abortion) and are instead a reflection of God’s greater plan for them via NFP or unfortunate circumstances, both ordinary (e.g. the flu) and extraordinary (e.g. fertility issues).

I am an only child. If you saw my family at Mass, would you immediately think that my situation was due to my parents contradicting the Church, that they felt it was inconvenient to have a large family? Well, you’d be wrong. My mother had SIX miscarriages. In fact, it is nearly always best NOT to assume at all about the personal lives of others whom we do not know. :nope:
 
I haven’t read this whole thread, but just to clear up the misconception that it is only SSPX or even only traditionalist Catholics that are having large families… my mother was one of 14, I am one of seven, I have more than 80 cousins on my mothers side, I know many families near where I live that have more than 5 children, some having at least 11. All of these are OF attending Catholics. Large families are not something reserved to traditionalist circles. 🤷
 
I haven’t read this whole thread, but just to clear up the misconception that it is only SSPX or even only traditionalist Catholics that are having large families… my mother was one of 14, I am one of seven, I have more than 80 cousins on my mothers side, I know many families near where I live that have more than 5 children, some having at least 11. All of these are OF attending Catholics. Large families are not something reserved to traditionalist circles. 🤷
Attention everyone:

The Kardashians have SEVEN children. :eek:

They must be saints! :rolleyes:
 
I haven’t read this whole thread, but just to clear up the misconception that it is only SSPX or even only traditionalist Catholics that are having large families… my mother was one of 14, I am one of seven, I have more than 80 cousins on my mothers side, I know many families near where I live that have more than 5 children, some having at least 11. All of these are OF attending Catholics. Large families are not something reserved to traditionalist circles. 🤷
I attend the OF as well. In my men’s group, there were plenty of men (under 45) with three or more children. One friend of mine has 9 children. He and his wife are often complimented on how well behaved their children are. Another friend of mine has 5, and another has 6. With the exception of the guy with 9 kids (his kids range from 23 to 2), these fathers are under 40. That’s the JPII generation working to challenge the culture.

I also know some Baptists and Church of Christ members who have larger families too.
 
Attention everyone:

The Kardashians have SEVEN children. :eek:

They must be saints! :rolleyes:
Wow. Thank you Deborah for assuming that I think that the more children you have the holier you are. Because I always judge everyone I meetbased on the number of children they have. :rolleyes:

I am well aware that there are many reasons why couples don’t have many, or even any kids and I would never judge anyone based on the number of children they have. I do not appreciate your implication that I do so.
 
First, Dragonslayer, SSPX in Australia? Be good to Fr Fullerton, we’re sending him from KS to be district superior there. 🙂 Enjoy him!

If I can weigh in, the most comments I’ve heard about how many children I have (three: 2, 3, and 4 yrs old) have come from the WIC office or my mother (who also had three children, but somehow it’s abhorrent when I do it…). We attend a very traditional (SSPX) parish where three kids is still a small family. The family that babysits ours so we can go to Mass had nine (two passed away). Now there is a woman who can handle anything. But no one there has ever commented on how we had three in four years, and then just stopped. No one has implied that we have too few or we’re not doing our work right–that only comes from the secular folks who say things like, “You know what causes that, right?” (Good answers: “We finally switched from Pepsi to Coke and that seems to have done the trick” or “You know, everybody’s got to be good at something”) or more often just gives me a disgusted look. It’s especially frustrating because one child is autistic so yes, in public he can be a wreck, but Judgy McJudgersons make it so much easier to deal with :mad: .

I can attest that one of the reasons we have a ‘small’ traditional Catholic family is because I was fooled. I was deceived, not maliciously, but by the best of intents. I have a heart condition so pregnancy has always been . . . an adventure . . . and each of the pregnancies probably scared ten years off my OB’s life. The last pregnancy, we discovered that I had developed an autoimmune antibody that attacked the baby’s heart and could be life-threatening, and no matter what would attack future children as well: any children I had after this one would have the same problem, added to the fact that my heart was getting progressively worse with each pregnancy. So the gentle push from every medical professional we talked to was, “It’s your choice, it’s up to you, but get a tubal, get a tubal.” They convinced me. It was hard, but I kept hearing that “You have to make sure the babies you already have have their mama” and things like that, so I did it. During the c-section when #3 was born (thanks to God she was not at all what they told us to expect–there is a child who lives and breathes testimony to the goodness of our dear saints), I was under general anesthesia, and they performed the tubal ligation.

As soon as I woke up I regretted it. I don’t mean just, “Oh shoot I wish I hadn’t done that,” but I mean I mourned having done it, for months afterward. It caused a lot of shame and a lot of pain (emotional and physical, oh yes very much physical…) and it was two or three months after Philomena was born that I finally spoke to a priest and confessed it and gained absolution. I still mourn the loss of my fertility, even though I always say, I’m not ready for four and won’t be any time soon, but the idea that I won’t have the chance to have a fourth still eats at my heart. We’ll be open to adoption when our lives are a little more financially secure and everyone’s health crises are at a lull, but I dream sometimes about the fourth child, the one who will never come.

So at least for me, my family is limited because I made a mistake, not even in the contraceptive mentality, but with all those good intentions and lead by people who knew better than I.

On a slightly different note, I was speaking to an older woman (older than me, not elderly) who had three or four nieces and nephews with different levels of autism, and she was saying how lovely my 4yr old is, and that she ‘pinged’ him immediately as autistic, and what a good job I was doing (sweet but kind of unbelievable since he was having a minor outburst during the blessing of the host’s house and Enthronement of the Sacred Heart), and she said something that, if I hadn’t been minding my best manners at a party I probably would’ve cried: “This [meaning my three wild children] is what it takes for you to become a saint.”

I didn’t realize I’d been so naughty.
 
Wow. Thank you Deborah for assuming that I think that the more children you have the holier you are. Because I always judge everyone I meetbased on the number of children they have. :rolleyes:

I am well aware that there are many reasons why couples don’t have many, or even any kids and I would never judge anyone based on the number of children they have. I do not appreciate your implication that I do so.
You misunderstand.

My post was supposed to compliment yours… specifically it was supposed to compliment this comment you made: “Large families are not something reserved to traditionalist circles.” I was proving your point for you by pointing out an example in the Kardashians. I wasn’t saying YOU were someone who judge people based on # of children.
 
You misunderstand.

My post was supposed to compliment yours… specifically it was supposed to compliment this comment you made: “Large families are not something reserved to traditionalist circles.” I was proving your point for you by pointing out an example in the Kardashians. I wasn’t saying YOU were someone who judge people based on # of children.
I’m sorry for misunderstanding. Thanks for clearing that up. 🙂
 
In order to try to find an answer, we need to respond these questions:

What are the ends of marriage? Is there a hierarchy of these ends? What are the ends of marital act? Is there a hierarchy of these ends? What are the moral intentionalities of marital act? In our couple, why do we do the marital act? What are its functions and its roles? What are our mentalities concerning the marital act and its corollaries?

What is the responsible procreation? What is the responsible paternity? What is the responsible maternity? What is N.F.P. and what is its moral regime? What is a grave and serious reason for using N.F.P.? Do we see a difference between to take care and to educate? Do we believe that large family is, per se, a moral obligation coming from the natural law wanted by God? Are we against, per se, the personalist approach concerning the marriage and the marial act? How do we analyse the philosophical approach of Humanae Vitae: too modern and not enough traditional in its motivation (too human…etc)?

Can spouse refuse the marital request of the marital act and under which conditions? What are the roles of the husband? What are the roles of the wife (house wife or not?).

Thus,
What is our degree of interpretation of these rules? Do you accept of practicing them, and how, and why and what for?
 
Are you okay with this point of view that is called theoretical providentialism? Me, no.

“NFP, while distinguishable from contraception in not being absolutely immoral, is seldom licit and always regrettable.”

“Most married couples (especially in the wealthy West) are perfectly capable of having large families, and most reasons cited for not having large families are bogus.”

“Couples who choose to have large families are making the religiously and morally superior choice.”

“Since selfishness is such a near and present danger, no one should practice NFP without first consulting a priest.”

“The following do not constitute valid reasons for using NFP: wanting to finish your education; wanting to save up for children’s future education; being tired; being stressed; being burdened by debt; having to move; having a small, crowded house; being depressed; feeling overwhelmed, etc.”

“The natural family planning is a concession to human weakness. The ideal is to have sex only when you are happy to have children.”

Are you okay with those statements that are coming from catholic lay persons? Me, no.

“The natural family regulation is a birth control sinful.”

“The Natural Family Planning is diabolical [Evil].”

“Getting married at age 40, what a shame to lose her virginity at this age.”

" NFP for spacing wouldn’t be needed in the agricultural society that existed in the time you are speaking of. Until relatively recently (post-industrial revolution) having a large family was considered a blessing by nearly everyone " .

Do you think really that the teaching of catholic church on responsible procreation and NFP was and is, per se, only objectively contextual??? Me, no.
 
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