Where are the men?

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CRW said:
I wish that the USCCB would encourage diocesan bishops to formally adopt the institution of adult male acolytes. I see this as a wonderful opportunity, not only for dad’s, but for retire man of the church fully capable of serving at the altar and providing adult supervision to the altar servers; male or female. IMHO.
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There already is such an institution. I have a good friend who is the Father Of 5 who was instituted acolyte and Lector by Bishop Bruskewitz in Licnoln before moving here to Iowa. There are a few Dioceses in the USA that do in fact do what you suggest. The problem is Most Bishops wont do it. It is really cool to see Trained acolytes and lectors in action. It makes mass seem like it should and that is Solemn and important. Of course Mass have the same feel without them present but its still neat.
 
decn2b said:
There already is such an institution. I have a good friend who is the Father Of 5 who was instituted acolyte and Lector by Bishop Bruskewitz in Licnoln before moving here to Iowa. There are a few Dioceses in the USA that do in fact do what you suggest. The problem is Most Bishops wont do it. It is really cool to see Trained acolytes and lectors in action. It makes mass seem like it should and that is Solemn and important. Of course Mass have the same feel without them present but its still neat.
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Yes I know that some do but like you said some don’t. What happen to the “Universal” or “Catholic” in our Mass and across America. It seems like the USCCB have told Rome - go HOME.
Especially when it concerns implementing The General Instruction of the Roman Missal and Instruction on the Eucharist. At Mass this morning someone told me that our Deacon said that we would continue the same policy concerning the purification of the sacred vessels. I wish we, as Catholic’s, could vote in or out our Bishops, lol.
 
I wish we, as Catholic’s, could vote in or out our Bishops, lol.
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That would be bad. Liberals would win quite often and we’d end up like the Episcopalians.

Thank God Almighty that the Church isn’t a democracy!👍
 
ComradeAndrei said:
That would be bad. Liberals would win quite often and we’d end up like the Episcopalians.

Thank God Almighty that the Church isn’t a democracy!👍
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I was not serious saying that, I just want to shake them sometimes…
 
Dr.Bombay said:
It’s no wonder the Church is having trouble attracting men to the priesthood. Why would a real man want to have anything to do with that kind of nonsense?
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If a real man has a vocation to the priesthood, he’ll step up anyway. If it takes so little to keep a man from the seminary, he probably couldn’t stand up to the rigors of priestly life anyway.

The “sissy” arguement is a cop out. Vocations were declining before girls served at the altar. Everytime I read a thread bemoaning women readers or the use of EMHC’s, especially female ones, I wonder how many of the men whining have stepped up and are doing something about it.
 
aurora77 said:
If a real man has a vocation to the priesthood, he’ll step up anyway. If it takes so little to keep a man from the seminary, he probably couldn’t stand up to the rigors of priestly life anyway.

The “sissy” arguement is a cop out. Vocations were declining before girls served at the altar. Everytime I read a thread bemoaning women readers or the use of EMHC’s, especially female ones, I wonder how many of the men whining have stepped up and are doing something about it.
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You are correct, vocations started declining in the late 60’s. I would recommend you find and read a book called “Goodbye, Good Men” by Michael S. Rose. It will open your eyes, and I can tell you from first hand experience that what he writes about in that book is the truth.
 
gelsbern said:
You are correct, vocations started declining in the late 60’s. I would recommend you find and read a book called “Goodbye, Good Men” by Michael S. Rose. It will open your eyes, and I can tell you from first hand experience that what he writes about in that book is the truth.
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I did read that book and was horrified by the rampant homosexual culture that seems to be in much of our seminaries. This seems to be a huge cause of the declining number of vocations, not girl altar servers, female readers, or female EMHC’s, as so many on these boards want to believe.

There are major problems within the Church when it comes to recruiting and properly teaching good priests. Spending our time arguing about a woman EMHC or a girl altar server just distracts from the real issue.

One way to start dealing with the issue would be to have more male leadership within parishes. Dads need to start teaching CCD, serving at the altar with their sons, reading at Mass, and serving as EMHC’s. If boys growing up see strong men taking an active role in Church life, they’ll learn by that example. Maybe we as the laity can’t go into a seminary and change things, but we can set the tone in our parishes.
 
aurora77 said:
If a real man has a vocation to the priesthood, he’ll step up anyway. If it takes so little to keep a man from the seminary, he probably couldn’t stand up to the rigors of priestly life anyway.

The “sissy” arguement is a cop out. Vocations were declining before girls served at the altar. Everytime I read a thread bemoaning women readers or the use of EMHC’s, especially female ones, I wonder how many of the men whining have stepped up and are doing something about it.
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Bull.

The Church began it’s sissification in the 60s about the time, surprise, surprise, vocations started to decline. The plague of women prancing around the sanctuary is just a small symptom of the larger disease.

And, for your information, more and more men are stepping up and we intend to reclaim our Church and there won’t be any women in our sanctuary, thank you very much, no matter what some pencil pusher at the USCCB says.

Sissies…it’s over. Hike your skirts and get out. The boys are back in town. :cool:
 
Dr.Bombay said:
And, for your information, more and more men are stepping up and we intend to reclaim our Church and there won’t be any women in our sanctuary, thank you very much, no matter what some pencil pusher at the USCCB says.
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Good, I’m glad to hear it. I don’t know any of the men who moan about these issues on here, so it makes me skeptical to read their complaints, but not read about what they personally are doing to make things right. Maybe you could get the ball rolling–what do you do in your parish to show a strong male example to the boys in your parish?
 
SentimentalGent said:
There is a shortage of priests because:
  1. Men are not answering the Call for whatever reasons. If not being able to marry is the main problem for some, then they probably don’t deserve to be priests anyway.
  2. We’re not encouraging men to enter the priesthood.
  3. We need more priests who actually seem like they enjoy what they’re doing. I have met many priests have problems with the Pope or don’t like this teaching or that teaching, etc. and follow along willy-nilly with every wayward theologian. Those aren’t great role models. But there are great role models out there. I know some of them. They also need to speak up and encourage young men to consider becoming a priest.
  4. We don’t pray enough for vocations.
  5. Making it clear that priesthood is a religious vocation, not a social service career.
  6. Larger families produce vocations. Stop contracepting and aborting.
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You left out a couple of things:
  1. Liberal diocesan vocations offices weed out orthodox candidates for the seminary.
  2. Anticlericalism within the Church blurs the distinction between clergy and laity, such that clergy seek to blend in and deprecate their priestly dignity, and laity increasingly encroach upon priestly ministries. (In fact, the very word “ministry” is supposed to refer only to the activities of ordained clergy.)
 
The American church is so sissified and girly. How many guys want to hang out with a bunch of old women, which is what you get when you look at the make up of the ushers, the EEMs and the altar servers.
 
dympnha said:
The American church is so sissified and girly. How many guys want to hang out with a bunch of old women, which is what you get when you look at the make up of the ushers, the EEMs and the altar servers.
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I don’t think that they apply makeup very well at all!
 
I did read that book and was horrified by the rampant homosexual culture that seems to be in much of our seminaries. This seems to be a huge cause of the declining number of vocations, not girl altar servers, female readers, or female EMHC’s, as so many on these boards want to believe.
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Don’t you see the connection? When a guy who might want to go to the seminary gets constantly bombarded by signals that anything having to do with the Church (like serving, or reading) is girly, the seminaries are basically gay bath houses-who wants to go? One should do the research before hand and realize the dignity of the Priesthood and service of the Church and that is another problem.

So I see two problems, one from the “old” guard and one from the “new”. In the old days, everything was kinda taken care of. You were taught the Baltimore Catechism and if you felt called and got sent to the Seminary everything that you need to know would be taught there. Well, that doesn’t necessarily happen today. Many people are horribly catechized and don’t even know where to look to delve into things are search harder. Many people don’t have the zeal to get out there and find out what they can and should do.

From the new way, if you don’t know your stuff, it may be easy for you to either get sucked up into the wrong sphere of influence or if you do know a few things, you may get turned away by the liberals in the “Vocations” office that haven’t had a priest in years. More likely, you were never taught to give a hoot, and won’t pursue the call even if you have it.
 
ComradeAndrei said:
Don’t you see the connection? When a guy who might want to go to the seminary gets constantly bombarded by signals that anything having to do with the Church (like serving, or reading) is girly, the seminaries are basically gay bath houses-who wants to go? One should do the research before hand and realize the dignity of the Priesthood and service of the Church and that is another problem.
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No, I honestly don’t. There’s a huge difference between me, as a woman, reading at Mass and a seminaries being “basically gay bath houses.” When I read, I’m there for a couple of minutes, max, our priest is at the altar the entire time. Who’s the bigger influence? And, if it’s me (which I don’t want it to be, contrary to those mind readers out there, I’m not “prancing” around up there), doesn’t that say something about the priest?

I still stand by my assertion that the best thing lay men can do is get actively involved. Teach CCD, read, serve at the altar, etc., etc. Stop whining and start acting. Be a real man.
 
I’m of the opinion that if a boy quits alterserving because girls join, he hasn’t gotten a very good example of how to act around women at home.

My daughter is an alter server and she is treated with respect and friendship by all the boys who are alterservers. Plus she has an active part in helping my husband (the alter server leader) train the new kids. She tells them if they’re nervous about mistakes she made and puts them at ease.

I view this as a chance for her to see if she may someday be called to be a nun.
 
CRW said:
I wish that the USCCB would encourage diocesan bishops to formally adopt the institution of adult male acolytes. I see this as a wonderful opportunity, not only for dad’s, but for retire man of the church fully capable of serving at the altar and providing adult supervision to the altar servers; male or female. IMHO.
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The adult men in many parishes would rather tsk tsk over the shortage of alter servers (my daughter once went over 5 weeks where she served every single week) than get up off their keisters and help.
 
decn2b said:
Yes definately the case in my Area. My co-worker is methodist and just last Sunday there was NOT one male over 12 years old in the building INCLUDING THE PASTOR. It is a small church that averages 35-40 each sunday. She said that men disappeared when pastor Carol showed up. Its the secularization of Society that is killing vocations to the priesthood along with a few other things of which includes in a very tiny way allowing female altar serviers. When the girls showed up for ALtar serving I quit. In fact a very large number of us boys quit…two of which were potentials to the priesthood…
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Now, did you quit b/c the pastor made you quit serving or at your own will? I used to serve in a campus ministry where I (a male) was for the most part was pretty much the only one who served the morning Masses for the fall semester. Now, mind, the readings were pretty much done by women (no objection, considering the university population itself is mostly female); that being said, I think the only time I didn’t serve was when I had a cold one weekend.
 
aurora77 said:
I still stand by my assertion that the best thing lay men can do is get actively involved. Teach CCD, read, serve at the altar, etc., etc. Stop whining and start acting. Be a real man.
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Yes, get actively involved…in the sissification? Is that the method you are proposing? Real men don’t want to become part of something that is currently in that particular state. Real men, instead, shelter and preserve themselves and their children from that first and then design a way to COMBAT it.

The real problem is that IF you are a REAL man and you act accordingly, you get branded a trouble maker and are exiled and/or vilified in the worst cases. And all because you won’t conform to the sissification…It’s either fight it or be controlled by it through re-education. (meaning: warm fuzzies, handholding, “chick” style music, “can’t we all just get along…”, getting “in-touch” with yourself…) Real men will fight it and at the very least avoid it. To simply jump in with both feet and be knowingly swarmed by the warm-fuzzy hive is not in the nature of a real man. Real Men pick and choose their necessary battles wisely. We CHOOSE alternative methods to be active since the current battle is a losing proposition. REAL men are despised in the current state of affairs.

That’s our American culture though and the Church Militant hasn’t escaped it either. Presently, there’s an attempted war by assimilation. You are force fed this stuff and expected to comply. If you don’t, there must be something wrong with you (so saith the sissies). What ever happened to the concept of “Right Reason???”

Yes, get actively involved…but to what end? There are definately at least two opposing sides here. The measures you have proposed stylisticly currently exist in antithesis to real manhood. As a result many men have just “tuned out” and the rest are fighting that battle, only from a different angle.

Joe B
 
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