Where are the organists coming from?

[Cat]

Today I attended the funeral of a truly great man in our city. For fifty years, he has played the pipe organ at various churches in the area. He is a recognized world authority on the pipe organ, and also on the handbells. In the church where he ministered for 30 years, he gathered the largest collection of handbells in the world, including the world’s only high E handbell, made especially for his choir. He has composed pieces for organ and handbells, and has served in many capacities in various pipe organ organizations all over the world.

When I was growing up, I was required to attend his recitals, because he always lectured about the pieces he was playing.

My daughters were privileged to take piano and violin lessons from his wife, and so came into contact with him often at recitals and as an accompanist.

We will not see his like again. God rest his soul. Losing him is like losing King David.

So that brings us down to approximately six organists in this city who are capable of playing classical works on a pipe organ.

There are about a dozen more organists in the city who can play simple arrangements of classical works, and who can play hymns on a pipe organ.

And there are a few dozen who can play hymns and that’s it, but on electronic organs, not pipes.

Most of these organists are currently playing in Protestant churches that pay them fairly well. Currently in our city, there is only one Catholic organist who can play classical works on the pipe organ.

Our city is not small. We have a population of 150,000, and we are close to several other large cities, including Chicago. We are also close to several large universities with good music programs.

I know most of these organists (I play piano), and all of them tell me that there are no organ students in our city. As far as they know, there are no organ students at any of the nearby universities.

My question is, where are the organists? And what will happen to the Catholic Church in our city when these few dozen are gone?

Is this the way it is all around the U.S., or is our city unique in its dearth of pipe organists?

Will the day come when there will no longer be organ music in the Catholic Church except in a few locations in the world?

Sorry that this is so depressing. Most of the funeral consisted of glorious pipe organ works played by the six good organists, and magnificent arrangements for the largest collection of handbells in the world. The conductor of the handbell choir cried all the way through their pieces. I don’t blame him. Handbells are going the route of the accordion in the U.S. and I’m sure he sees a day in the future when no one will even know what they are, let alone how to play them. It’s very sad to see these older musicians with so much knowledge die.

 

[bpbasilphx]

Protestant churches will always have organists, because they are willing to pay for them–and decent organs.

Catholic churches, alas, are not.

This matter is discussed in Thomas Day’s book WHY CATHOLICS CAN’T SING.

 

[SMHW]

My parish has a decent electronic organ. (It can be converted to work as a pipe organ if we ever choose to buy the pipes.)

But right now my choir director is the only person we have who is really qualified to play it. And there is no way he can play and direct our 60 voice choir at the same time. We just can’t set things up so we can see each other. Our current accompanist is a college student who plays the piano well (and we do have a nice piano) but doesn’t know how to play the organ. So the organ only gets used when there is no choir. The choir gets accompanied by piano and/or electric keyboard.

Our previous accompanists did play the organ. (One ended up having to pay for his own lessons.) Both left to take jobs with other parishes and eventually moved on to more lucrative musical fields than working for Churches.

I don’t see my parish sending anyone to school to learn to play the organ in this current economic situation. My parish is fairly well off compared to most but right now everyone’s budget has been cut since donations have decreased considerably.

 

[Don9of11]

I experienced something similar in 1996 when our organist who played for over 60 years in our church passed away. There was no one who could play as he did. He learned to play the organ when he was young and learned much from the organist before him. The Monsignor of our parish was wise enough back then to reinvest and train someone. So you are not alone.

Good Catholic church organist are far and few between. Most of the good organist that I have run across are retired and play as substitutes. We now have a young man who has been trained in the classic and can play the organ with great efficency. More importantly he is familiar with playing a pipe organ like we have which is an Austin organ. As fate would have it our church is being closed next June. I am not sure where our organist will end up.

I think though most of the music today is written for guitar and doesn’t require a “classically” trained individual. It’s written for the person who learned how to play at the mall or learned to play on his own.

 

[jilly4ski]

I know part of the problem is the availability of teachers and practice times. I took lessons my senior year of college, not nearly enough to be good at it, (though I played with some excellent students). We had to have scheduled practice times on the tracker organ, though the little practice organs weren’t scheduled. But here I would be hesitant to ask the organist at chuch for lessons, (even if I could afford it) and even if I did, where would I practice? All the churches are closed up until right before mass or another sacrament. I would have to play at least an hour a day to be any good.

sigh, I miss playing.

 

[baltobetsy]

We’re very lucky in our parish. Our music director of 25 years, an extremely accomplished organist (just had a concert at Notre Dame in Paris in the spring), taught one of the young men in the choir to play. The young organist took over after the other one moved to a new position in another Catholic parish. He has since changed his college major to Liturgical Music and is studying at Catholic University and playing at the National Shrine during the week.

The organist at a neighboring parish has a choir of men and boys that periodically produces an organist as well. He makes it “cool” to sing and play good music.

In the Episcopal parish where I sing professionally, a couple of years ago, we had a young assistant organist who was Catholic. He left the Episcopal parish and went to a Catholic parish. He is a well-known and accomplished recitalist.

So it’s not entirely hopeless, though I agree that since so many parishes have adopted a music style that is not suited to the pipe organ, few people are taking an interest any more.

Cat, I must say I’m pleasantly surprised that you started this thread. Usually you are the defender of music that comes down to the people’s level rather than lifting them up in sophistication as good organ music so often does. Thank you for bringing this up.

Betsy

 

[Sarabande]

A major problem in many Catholic churches is that they don’t pay an accomplished organist enough for a living. So, often times, they will go to Protestant churches. Many Catholic churches don’t really value the ability of a good organist or any good musician in general - at least that is what it appears to most musicians. You also have parishes which don’t want an accomplished organist to play the repertoire they were trained to do - many of which is repertoire appropriate for mass. The only parishes I’ve worked in where the pastor truly appreciated good musicianship were pastors who either really loved music and/or were musicians themselves. Then you have the parishes where they have an incredible organist, but have no idea what they have. Many times they assume that organists and musicians in general have easy jobs, that they don’t practice or prepare. They don’t realize that serious musicians who do it mainly for a living will practice, study and prepare 6-8 hours a day, and that those who do have another job to help them along make many sacrifices to work for their parish.

Another reason why there may not be as many good organists coming out to Catholic parishes is that week in and week out young musicians or future musicians hear the organ played by a pretty bad organist and will be turned off by it. Or they didn’t grow up with hearing an organ at all in their parish, so they have nothing to go by.

In the more metropolitan cities, you will have more good and accomplished organists, but that is because it where parishes will pay for it.

Parents also don’t think about encouraging their child to play the organ. The parishes are also to blame for this. In the past - the not so distant past - you would often have children as young as 10 playing for the masses at their parish on the parish organ to give them experience and practice. Today, when do you see a 10 year old kid playing the organ at a typical mass? Not often. A family friend of ours is in her early-mid 20s working for her, I believe, doctorate (it might be her masters) in organ performance. She began on the piano and then progressed to the organ when she was around 9 or 10, playing simple Bach organ works and such and also doing Sunday masses. This is unusual to hear about today. Her parish was fortunate to have encouraged this kind of thing and her parents are very devout Catholics who also encouraged her. I believe she was the first musician in the family, so she didn’t come from a family of musicians. But they valued and appreciated quality music - especially sacred music. Just think of how many more organists you’d have coming up if more parishes and parents were as encouraging to their children.

Another reason is that it is sometimes difficult to find a place to practice. It’s mostly churches that have the organs. I’ve spoken with organists who may not have a steady church job and live out in the suburbs and have a difficult time finding a place to practice.

As I’ve mentioned in past posts, our parish is very fortunate to have such a talented and accomplished organist and musician. I realize that there aren’t many around like him - especially outside of our city. Unfortunately, I think there are people also in our parish who totally take him for granted.

 

[mkingdomlvr]

Sarabande;5572601**:

A major problem in many Catholic churches is that they don’t pay an accomplished organist enough for a living. So, often times, they will go to Protestant churches. Many Catholic churches don’t really value the ability of a good organist or any good musician in general - at least that is what it appears to most musicians.

You also have parishes which don’t want an accomplished organist to play the repertoire they were trained to do - many of which is repertoire appropriate for mass. The only parishes I’ve worked in where the pastor truly appreciated good musicianship were pastors who either really loved music and/or were musicians themselves. Then you have the parishes where they have an incredible organist, but have no idea what they have. Many times they assume that organists and musicians in general have easy jobs, that they don’t practice or prepare. They don’t realize that serious musicians who do it mainly for a living will practice, study and prepare 6-8 hours a day, and that those who do have another job to help them along make many sacrifices to work for their parish.

Another reason why there may not be as many good organists coming out to Catholic parishes is that week in and week out young musicians or future musicians hear the organ played by a pretty bad organist and will be turned off by it. Or they didn’t grow up with hearing an organ at all in their parish, so they have nothing to go by.

In the more metropolitan cities, you will have more good and accomplished organists, but that is because it where parishes will pay for it.

Parents also don’t think about encouraging their child to play the organ. The parishes are also to blame for this. In the past - the not so distant past - you would often have children as young as 10 playing for the masses at their parish on the parish organ to give them experience and practice. Today, when do you see a 10 year old kid playing the organ at a typical mass? Not often. A family friend of ours is in her early-mid 20s working for her, I believe, doctorate (it might be her masters) in organ performance. She began on the piano and then progressed to the organ when she was around 9 or 10, playing simple Bach organ works and such and also doing Sunday masses. This is unusual to hear about today. Her parish was fortunate to have encouraged this kind of thing and her parents are very devout Catholics who also encouraged her. I believe she was the first musician in the family, so she didn’t come from a family of musicians. But they valued and appreciated quality music - especially sacred music. Just think of how many more organists you’d have coming up if more parishes and parents were as encouraging to their children.

Another reason is that it is sometimes difficult to find a place to practice. It’s mostly churches that have the organs. I’ve spoken with organists who may not have a steady church job and live out in the suburbs and have a difficult time finding a place to practice.

As I’ve mentioned in past posts, our parish is very fortunate to have such a talented and accomplished organist and musician. I realize that there aren’t many around like him - especially outside of our city. Unfortunately, I think there are people also in our parish who totally take him for granted.

I agree. I went to HS with a young man who was an incredible musician. He played at our Catholic church while he was in school, but once he got his PhD in accompaniment he went to a Protestant church because he could not have afforded to feed his family on what the Catholic churches were offering.

It’s the same old story-you get what you pay for. If you’re not willing to pay a living wage for an accomplished musician, you often do not get them. Sure, there are cases where a person can do it, but those are normally are people with spouses who make excellent salaries or retired people who don’t need as much money.

 

[passus]

Coming from a church organist…

There are plenty of organists out there. It’s just that Catholic churches are not willing to pay their organists the money that Protestant churches are.

I am one of the two organists our church has. The choir director also plays the organ, although not well. The other organist and I both volunteer all our time at the church–in excess of 3 or 4 hours a week during the choir season. I do not call myself an accomplished organist, but I am proficient at the instrument; anyone any better would be silly to do what I do for free.

With music–especially church musicians–it’s important to keep in mind that we, like everyone else, need to make a living. Unless Catholic churches are willing to come up with the cash to pay trained organists, we have no incentive to take a Catholic church job for so little or no money when there are jobs at Protestant churches paying hundreds of dollars a week, sometimes not even including rehearsal time.

 

[Frosty]

I can only speak from my own experience but I think it is important to remember that, up until a few decades ago, in a good many churches that actually had pipe organs, the organist (who usually doubled as choir director) was either a Sister or a member of the clergy. Some were very proficient, some not, but the parish did not have to pay for their services.
In the parish where I grew up, the Sister who taught music to private students was both organist and choir director. There was no one else to take her place during the one month in summers when she had to go on retreat so all our Masses were Low Masses. Why she didn’t teach one of her students to play the organ, I don’t know. A few months before I finished grade 8, she informed me that I would now learn to play the organ. Again, I have no idea why she picked me, Perhaps it was because I was the only one of her many piano students who had already completed my Grade 8 piano examinations or because she knew that I was very reliable. She never told me the reason and being the compliant child that I was, I just did as I was told.
For the following five years, until I left for university, I played for Daily Mass, weddings, funerals, Benediction, the 9am Dialogue Mass and the 10;30 Missa Cantata on Sundays during the month of July, Apart from that month, I also always played the 9am Mass and Benediction on Sunday evening the rest of the year. I understood that what I did was very appreciated and I was happy to be of any service. My father was furious though that at the end of those five years, the only concrete token of appreciation that I received was a book called The Meaning of Sacrifice from my music teacher. Looking back, it was an ironic title to give a teenager.
Once I was gone, no one else was put in my place so the parish music situation reverted back to what it had been. That particular Sister, continued to be organist and choir director until 1981 when she had to retire. The parish was lucky enough that a very talented organist had moved into the parish only weeks before Sister’s retirement. He was very happy to pick up the reins and since he was quite wealthy, he did not ask for any remuneration for his work. Unfortunately, he passed away suddenly in 2000. After a nationwide search for a new organist, one was found in a relatively short time. The new one had been choir master and organist in a large Anglican Cathedral. For the first time, that parish actually had to pay someone to play its’ glorious organ. Some of the parishoners still haven’t gotten over the shock! Frankly,what he is being paid is peanuts. He told me last summer that the reason he decided to accept the job was because of the magnificent old church, the well-known reputation of the choir and the lovely setting of the town itself. As altruistic as that sounds, it helps that his wife comes from one of Canada’s large brewing families.
To get back on topic. I know of many parishes where the circumstances were similar to what I’ve described above. Especially those in small cities and towns. They just were not used to having to pay anyone. I believe that the same mindset still exists in a lot of places. It ls hard trying to convince a parish council in an older parish to come up with a decent wage for an organist or choir director when they are worried about the steeple falling down, the front steps crumbling or the roof about to cave in.

 

[m134e5]

Today I attended the funeral of a truly great man in our city. For fifty years, he has played the pipe organ at various churches in the area. He is a recognized world authority on the pipe organ, and also on the handbells. In the church where he ministered for 30 years, he gathered the largest collection of handbells in the world, including the world’s only high E handbell, made especially for his choir. He has composed pieces for organ and handbells, and has served in many capacities in various pipe organ organizations all over the world.

When I was growing up, I was required to attend his recitals, because he always lectured about the pieces he was playing.

My daughters were privileged to take piano and violin lessons from his wife, and so came into contact with him often at recitals and as an accompanist.

We will not see his like again. God rest his soul. Losing him is like losing King David.

So that brings us down to approximately six organists in this city who are capable of playing classical works on a pipe organ.

There are about a dozen more organists in the city who can play simple arrangements of classical works, and who can play hymns on a pipe organ.

And there are a few dozen who can play hymns and that’s it, but on electronic organs, not pipes.

Most of these organists are currently playing in Protestant churches that pay them fairly well. Currently in our city, there is only one Catholic organist who can play classical works on the pipe organ.

Our city is not small. We have a population of 150,000, and we are close to several other large cities, including Chicago. We are also close to several large universities with good music programs.

I know most of these organists (I play piano), and all of them tell me that there are no organ students in our city. As far as they know, there are no organ students at any of the nearby universities.

My question is, where are the organists? And what will happen to the Catholic Church in our city when these few dozen are gone?

Is this the way it is all around the U.S., or is our city unique in its dearth of pipe organists?

Will the day come when there will no longer be organ music in the Catholic Church except in a few locations in the world?

Sorry that this is so depressing. Most of the funeral consisted of glorious pipe organ works played by the six good organists, and magnificent arrangements for the largest collection of handbells in the world. The conductor of the handbell choir cried all the way through their pieces. I don’t blame him. Handbells are going the route of the accordion in the U.S. and I’m sure he sees a day in the future when no one will even know what they are, let alone how to play them. It’s very sad to see these older musicians with so much knowledge die.

There are many reasons there are fewer and fewer organists these days.

• Many Catholic churches will not pay organists, so organists go where their talents are more appreciated.
• Churches are hesitant to let people practice on their organs
• Some organ teachers expect you to be a piano virtuoso before you start taking lessons (which is difficult for those who aren’t interested in the piano- who only want to play the organ- it can be enough to kill one’s interest in the organ).
• Organists don’t encourage others enough to study the organ, and when they find someone who wants to learn, they “don’t have time” to teach them.
• The differences between playing the piano and the organ are enough to drive away many pianists. I imagine it is frustrating when you have flawless piano technique, but still have to work to master the technique of the organ.
• The organ is a very imposing instrument. It’s loud, and there are a lot more keys and keyboards- plus you have a bunch of pedals, and different sounds (called stops) to worry about. You can also break the organ if you don’t know what you’re doing (and those things aren’t cheap!). You can also break the windows in the church if you play certain combinations of notes loud enough. Those things can scare people off if they think they are too clumsy or forgetful.
• People just don’t realize what an amazing instrument the pipe organ is.

 

[Cat]

We’re very lucky in our parish. Our music director of 25 years, an extremely accomplished organist (just had a concert at Notre Dame in Paris in the spring), taught one of the young men in the choir to play. The young organist took over after the other one moved to a new position in another Catholic parish. He has since changed his college major to Liturgical Music and is studying at Catholic University and playing at the National Shrine during the week.

The organist at a neighboring parish has a choir of men and boys that periodically produces an organist as well. He makes it “cool” to sing and play good music.

In the Episcopal parish where I sing professionally, a couple of years ago, we had a young assistant organist who was Catholic. He left the Episcopal parish and went to a Catholic parish. He is a well-known and accomplished recitalist.

So it’s not entirely hopeless, though I agree that since so many parishes have adopted a music style that is not suited to the pipe organ, few people are taking an interest any more.

Cat, I must say I’m pleasantly surprised that you started this thread. Usually you are the defender of music that comes down to the people’s level rather than lifting them up in sophistication as good organ music so often does. Thank you for bringing this up.

Betsy

I was trained as a classical pianist, and I am still involved in classical music in the city. I not only play it, but I am chair of a large youth music competition emphasizing classical (and other older periods) of music.

I love all kinds of music, other than the obscene rap music. I don’t even mind rap if it’s decent (Will Smith).

You know, maybe Catholic need to figure out that it IS possible to have different kinds of music in the Mass (and that’s how I interpret the “documents”). We don’t HAVE to select one or the other and disdain our second choice, unless the Mass is a TLM, of course. It’s OK to like more than one style of music and it’s OK to include old and new music in a Mass.

Yes, I will always defend music at the people’s level. I see nothing in the “documents” to disregard this music. I think that much of the Catholic contemporary music is very good, melodic, and poetic. I don’t believe in musical snobbery. I don’t accept the theories that one kind of music is instrinsically more “sacred” or “higher” than other forms of music. I accept that some forms of music are more difficult to master, but this doesn’t make them better or superior to other forms. I think that ALL musical styles originate from the Lord God.

I like pipe organ music and handbells. And frankly, I think that a well-played pipe organ IS at the people’s level–it’s straight out of horror movies, and that’s definitely the people’s level! The pews shake–lots of fun! I found myself dancing in the pew (without standing up) during the Franck piece yesterday, and I wasn’t the only one. Pipe organ music ROCKS!

Maybe I should qualify that–well-played pipe organ music ROCKS! Mediocre pipe organ music is hard to take, and badly-played pipe organ is pretty unbearable.

I’ve never seen handbells in a Catholic church. I assume that they are much too expensive for the average parish to justify. I mean, if the parishes won’t spring for decent sound systems and if they won’t pay their musicians, why would they spend thousands on a set of handbells that many people would probably complain sound “too worldly” anyway?

My point in writing this thread is to find out where the organists are coming from. I personally think that they are a rare animal rapidly becoming extinct. So far, nothing in this thread has convinced me otherwise. I’m thinking that as they die out, so will the organ in Catholic Masses and eventually in Protestant churches. Many Protestant churches, even the traditionalist ones, are going to “praise and worship bands” anyway. You see, most traditionalist Protestant churches don’t have organists, either, and praise and worship band fill the void.

 

[Cat]

I want to make one point about the organists that I know.

Some people imply that Protestant churches have organists because they pay them well.

I agree. Of the organists that I know, several aren’t even Christians, but they play where the money is.

HOWEVER–I think that a lot of the reason why the “good” organists and other musicians flock to Protestant churches is because they have artistic freedom.

The excellent musician whose funeral I attended yesterday wrote many classical pieces (classical style). HOWEVER–one of the pieces that was played at his funeral was an excellent arrangement for handbells of “On The Willows” from Godspell.

This would be frowned upon in any Catholic Mass, wouldn’t it? Many people, if they recognized the piece, would be writing to the bishop the next day to complain about “secular music” in the Mass.

The Franck piece that was done yesterday would upset all the Mass attendees who believe that the times before and after the Mass should be spent in silence and prayer. That piece was definitely NOT silent. It rocked the rafters. Letters to the bishop would be flying.

In fact, I’ve seen all too often on these forums the comment that “musicians just want to perform, like Mass is some kind of concert.” That’s so very wrong. Just because we want to play our best and give you good pieces of meaty music does not mean we are “performing a gig.” No wonder good musicians stay away from Catholic churches–no one wants to worry every week that they will be “reported” and “disciplined” and “stifled.”

Musicians are not allowed to “cut loose” in the Catholic Church, at least, that’s the way some people interpret the “documents.” I don’t agree with this conservative interpretation, and I have seen a few parishes where the members and musicians DO cut loose and sing glorious music, and these parishes were packed! People like good music and they will come to hear it. I don’t understand why Catholic churches disdain it and are content to do wimpy versions of hymns (traditional and modern) during Mass and no preludes and postludes. This goes back to the dearth of organists–without a GOOD organist (or pianist), hymns will be played wimpily.

 

[Don9of11]

A major problem in many Catholic churches is that they don’t pay an accomplished organist enough for a living.

Many Catholic churches will not pay organists, so organists go where their talents are more appreciated.

One should volunteer to play the organ for the church and accept what payment they offer. It’s a volunteer position just like singing in the choir. I realize it requires a full time person and in many respects it’s a full time job, but never does it offer a full time pay and never should one expect to make a living from it.

Churches are hesitant to let people practice on their organs

With good cause, if you don’t know how to operate a pipe organ you can damage it and replacement parts can be very expensive. Our particular pipe organ has parts that are not made anymore and therefor must be manufactured.

 

[NHInsider]

This is something of a Catch-22 as well - some years back when our parish’s pipe organ required expensive repairs, the argument that prevailed with the parish council was “not only is it going to be costly to repair this organ, but it’s getting hard to find anyone who can play it.” The old organ was removed and replaced with an electric organ. (The only upside was that a beautiful window which had been covered by the pipes reappeared.) But there is now, so far as I know, no pipe organ in this town or within 10-20 miles - making it even less likely that any young person here will grow up wanting to play.

 

[Bluegoat]

If you want a good organist, you have to find some way to pay them. Being a proffesional musition is not a highly remunerative line of work - and the vast majority of organist jobs are on Sundays, so it’s not easy for a professional musician to play at his own church then for free.

At the (Anglican) church I’ve been attending lately, the choir director is a very accomplished professional organist, and they pay him. They take their music ministry very seriously. He also works as music director/faculty at the local theological college, and as choir director at an undergraduate liberal arts college. Those three institutions had to get together to attract him.

I am curious - what are the Catholic Churches spending their funds on? Not music, evidently. Their priests don’t marry, so they don’t need a living wage for a family, like a Protestant church. And I’ve seen lots of complaints around here about lack of help to large families or other parishioners requiring support. So what are the big-budget items that take up the funds?

I think churches that want to encourage young musicians should look at offering their organs to students to practice on, perhaps if they have been approved by their teacher as competent. Yes, it’s wear and tear on the organ - I guess it won’t need many repairs if there is no one to play it! And perhaps look at creating a bursary for organ students at the university level.

 

[NHInsider]

If you want a good organist, you have to find some way to pay them . . .

I am curious - what are the Catholic Churches spending their funds on? Not music, evidently. Their priests don’t marry, so they don’t need a living wage for a family, like a Protestant church. And I’ve seen lots of complaints around here about lack of help to large families or other parishioners requiring support. So what are the big-budget items that take up the funds?

Sadly, we Catholics are notoriously poor supporters of our parishes. There are, of course, exceptions - but it is very common for Catholics to put only token offerings into the weekly collection - $5 a week from people who make $50,000 a year is not uncommon. Add to that the costs of upkeep on aging buildings and the usual costs that all of us juggle at home, and the budgets are always tight.

The numbers below are 12 years old but still telling:

Per-member giving as a percentage of income, for example, decreased from 3.1 percent in 1968 to 2.6 percent in 1997 among the 29 Protestant denominations that report annual financial information to the National Council of Churches’ “Yearbook of American and Canadian Churches,” said researchers John and Sylvia Ronsvalle.

Protestants also are keeping more of their dollars at home, a trend that puts denominational bureaucracies and programs at risk.

Studies also indicate that roughly 75 percent of money is given by 25 percent of the people, and that giving levels vary greatly from denomination to denomination.

According to researchers Dean Hoge, Patrick McNamara, Charles Zech and Michael Donahue, conservative Protestants give more than 3 percent of household income on average; black Protestants, 2.5 percent; mainline Protestants, 2 percent; Catholics, less than 1.5 percent; and other denominations, less than 1 percent.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the Assemblies of God and the Seventh-day Adventist Church head the giving parade.

About 30 percent to 45 percent of Latter-day Saints, for example, tithe the 10 percent mentioned in the Bible.

Source:
By: Julia McCord
Date: 23 April 2000
Source: Omaha World-Herald
found online at adherents.com/misc/giving.html

 

[baltobetsy]

One should volunteer to play the organ for the church and accept what payment they offer. It’s a volunteer position just like singing in the choir. I realize it requires a full time person and in many respects it’s a full time job, but never does it offer a full time pay and never should one expect to make a living from it.

Thank you for a perfect illustration of the attitude that keeps the music in Catholic churches mediocre at best.

Betsy

 

[Sarabande]

One should volunteer to play the organ for the church and accept what payment they offer. It’s a volunteer position just like singing in the choir. I realize it requires a full time person and in many respects it’s a full time job, but never does it offer a full time pay and never should one expect to make a living from it.

I disagree. Perhaps not in recent times, but for centuries composers and church musicians - especially organists - did make a living working as an employee of the Church either in parishes or under a cardinal, bishop, pope. Why would making a living with a full-time wage for a musician be any different than working for the Church in another capacity who is also earning a full-time wage? Maybe not as much as you would make in the public sector, but at least it’s a living wage of some sort. There is always talk about how sacred music for liturgy is so important as it is another form of prayer, etc., yet as I’ve grown and experienced various parishes, I’ve found that it is usually all talk by the people who have the authority and ability to make it happen and no real action. Many of my older colleagues have had or were close to nervous breakdowns due to the environment they have had to work under at parishes for years. They couldn’t go anywhere else because churches are the places where you get these kinds of jobs that you studied and train for. And often times, these musicians also wanted to do something for the Church.

I think that mentality above shows how little respect people give to church musicians. It’s ok for people who do “real” work for the Church to make a full-time wage, but you as a musician, even though you’re doing full-time work and have put in just as much time and training and study into your expertise, isn’t worth it. You are expected to give your time for free or for as little as we want to pay you. As someone else said, you will get what you pay for.

Now there is a difference when a parish with not much money can’t afford to pay a good musician and a well-off parish who actually can pay a full-time wage to a musician, but chooses not to. One can’t expect a poorer parish to do that when they have so many other things to worry about.

But the reality is for other situations, people talk a good game, but they don’t want to put out to get quality. They don’t want to put the time in to foster and encourage new musicians in their parishes who might be willing to take a lesser salary to help their parish. For instance, I worked for about $20,000 a years as a classroom music teacher as well as a children’s voice and handbell choir director. In a big, metropolitan city, that is hardly enough to live meagerly. My week and my weekends were pretty much taken up. I had to accept another parttime job in order to survive, as well as worked as a weekly professional cantor, so I literally worked 7 days a week for two years straight. The parish wasn’t well-off, but I believed in helping that church out and wanted to give something back to these children who are our next generation of Catholics. It wasn’t until we got a new pastor (the former pastor was a rare one and one I really respected and cared for as a person) that I experienced what all my other older colleagues talked about and often times experienced or were close to nervous breakdowns. It comes from the pastor and then works its way down to the congregation. You then begin to see a lack of respect.

 

[Cat]

So what will happen if there are no organists?

The OF Masses will be just fine, as they can use piano, guitar, and other instruments.

How about the TLM? Will it be strictly non-instrumental? I assume that’s OK?