Where can I find the Mormon teaching on Africans being fallen Angels?

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Yes, back in the day people picked their parish by their nationality. I guess Mormons aren’t allowed that freedom.
True. Mormons are forced to attend the ward that is closest to them geographically. Catholics are allowed to attend any parish where they feel most comfortable. I do not attend the parish closest to me, because it just didn’t feel like “home” to me. I attend a mostly Vietnamese parish (I am not Vietnamese) because it just felt like home (it is the 2nd closest to my home). When I walked in that Sunday, I just knew I had come home. I have never been sorry.
 
Plus, my son, who lives in Anaheim, is registered at St. Callistus parish in Garden Grove because we attend mass together. He also attended RCIA and was baptized at St. Callistus.

But Mormons (who claim to be so family-centered) would force us to attend different wards, so we could not attend services together.
 
Finding the politically incorrect and positively outrageous LDS doctrine about blacks…in writting might be a tough one. They are very politically astute and this along with the polygamy thing were dropped because of politics and unpopularity. The only way Utah was going to gain statehood was for Mormons to have only one wife;)
 
But Mormons (who claim to be so family-centered) would force us to attend different wards, so we could not attend services together.
That is kind of sad. Over dinner tonight my wife told me about a Mormon woman she works with. It seemed her ward split and she had to go to a ward where she didn’t know many people. They started giving her a hard time because she only had one child. She can’t have children and her one child was adopted. But I guess they shoot first and ask questions later.
 
The following are three LDS testimonies which show clearly that the Lord will never allow his prophet to lead the Church out of the path of truth:

“I bear you my solemn witness that we have a living prophet, seer, and revelator. We are not dependent only upon the revelations given in the past . . . we have a mouthpiece to whom God is revealing his mind and will. God will never permit him to lead us astray. As has been said, God would remove us out of our place if we should attempt to do it. You have not concern. Let the management and government of God, then, be with the Lord. Do not try to find fault with the management and affairs that pertain to him alone and by revelation through his prophet.” (Harold B. Lee, “The Place of the Living Prophet, Seer, and Revelator,” in Charge, p. 112.)

“I remember years ago when I was a bishop I had President [Heber J.] Grant talk to our ward. After the meeting, I drove him home. . . . When we got to his home I got out of the car and went up on the porch with him. Standing by me, he put his arm over my shoulder and said: ‘My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church, and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it.’ Then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, ‘But you don’t need to worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray.’” (Marion G. Romney, in Conference Report, Oct. 1960, p. 78.)

“I say to Israel, the Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as president of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty.” (Wilford Woodruff, in “General Conference,” Millennial Star, 24 Nov. 1890 [52:741]; or The Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, pp. 212–13.)

How About the** Adam-God doctrine**. This teaching was originated by Brigham Young. He promoted it strongly. He made sure it was taught during the lecture at the veil, at the culprit of the temple endowment. He considered a basic pillar of knowledge revealed to the saints of the last dispensation. For a long time after the doctrine was reversed, the Church made efforts to make people believe Brigham was “misquoted” or “misinterpreted,” or that the doctrine was a transcript error, etc, etc, etc. As more scholars studied the matter, it became evident by numerous accounts of faithful members (including a poem by Eliza R. Snow) and journals like that of William Clayton, that the doctrine was a legitimate teaching of Brigham. Today the doctrine is undeniable and I don’t think the Church would be able to claim today that it is a simple “misunderstanding.”

The church has declared the doctrine to be wrong. McConkie stated it is a “heresy.” Of course, this was during the period the church denied Brigham actually taught it.

You say the Lord won’t let the prophet lead the church astray, yet, the Adam-God doctrine, along with the anxiety created by Brigham Young that only those living in a polygamous relationship would be able to receive exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom led large groups of people to split from the Church.

These bizarre and extreme doctrines were in part contributors to the Mormon alienation from the US government, and were also central factors for the RLDS movement.

Later, when polygamy was ceased, the anxiety that the church was falling from the truth was at the center of the FLDS movement. Therefore, I think Brigham’s teachings were responsible for a great number of good members and good families and generations of people to have lost the LDS truth.
 
That is kind of sad. Over dinner tonight my wife told me about a Mormon woman she works with. It seemed her ward split and she had to go to a ward where she didn’t know many people. They started giving her a hard time because she only had one child. She can’t have children and her one child was adopted. But I guess they shoot first and ask questions later.
A similar thing happened to my family. They split our ward (in Massachusetts) and my mom and older brother stayed at the old ward but my wife and I (living in a different town) now had to go to the new ward. We asked for permission to stay with the rest of the family, but were summarily refused. The new ward was dominated by a few rich, aristocratic 6th-generation Utah families, and the rest of us were treated like 2nd-class members. It was miserable and I was relieved when we relocated to Southern California.
 
Wow quite an intense/interesting thread here. I’ve only read maybe 4 pages and i’m exhausted haha.

However i would like to hear what a Catholic believes regarding Mark 7:25-28 and Acts 10:10-28 and their view of gentiles?

Mark 7:25-28
25 For a certain woman, whose young daughter had an unclean spirit, heard of him, and came and fell at his feet:
26 The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter.
27 But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children’s bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.
28 And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children’s crumbs.
Acts 10: 10-28
10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.
17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon’s house, and stood before the gate,
18 And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.
19 ¶ While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.
20 Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.
21 Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said, Behold, I am he whom ye seek: what is the cause wherefore ye are come?
22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.
23 Then called he them in, and lodged them. And on the morrow Peter went away with them, and certain brethren from Joppa accompanied him.
24 And the morrow after they entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them, and had called together his kinsmen and near friends.
25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.
26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.
27 And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together.
28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
 
However i would like to hear what a Catholic believes regarding Mark 7:25-28 and Acts 10:10-28 and their view of gentiles?
Are these verses used to justify the racist policy held by the Mormon Church, in total, completely around the world, all of it, everywhere, without exception anywhere in the world, to not let *black men hold their #priesthood?

For the colloquially challenged
*black-people of African decent
#priesthood (Mormon priesthood) -an invention of Joseph Smith
 
Are these verses used to justify the racist policy held by the Mormon Church, in total, completely around the world, all of it, everywhere, without exception anywhere in the world, to not let *black men hold their #priesthood?

For the colloquially challenged
*black-people of African decent
#priesthood (Mormon priesthood) -an invention of Joseph Smith
Stephen, there was a priesthood ban before 1978. People of black African descent could not hold the priesthood in the CoJCoLDS. Yes, it was a church wide ban. This has been stipulated; nobody is denying it. Your pounding on the matter doesn’t make it worse, or better, than it was. It simply was—and then one morning it was not. For the last thirty-one years all worthy male members of the church have been able to hold the priesthood. Unlike Catholicism, which is still struggling with things like segregation (all black congregations) and discrimination (black priests and nuns getting different treatment than white priests and nuns) and unequal representation (Whereas blacks comprise about 18% of the world wide Catholic population, they comprise only about 1% of the Clergy.) You have come a long way—you have far longer to go.

We don’t. There is nothing left for us to, y’know, DO in this area, at least officially. Black members are ‘advancing’ in the heirarchy of the church at the same rate as, and sometimes faster than, their white brethren. No segregation (but then, there wasn’t much of that in the first place…) no discrimination. No ‘glass ceiling.’

On the other hand, even though there are millions of black Catholics in the USA, there has never been an African American Cardinal. (shrug) Now you’ve had five hundred years to fix that, and a little over a century since you first ordained an African American priest. You still haven’t managed to get an African American Cardinal.

Yet you are critical that we took 150 years to ordain a black priest in the USA (that IS three times faster than you managed, come to think of it.) and we have black 'general authorities" (from the numbers and jobs, I’d call a ‘seventy’ about equal to a Cardinal…" and we did that in less than thirty years. You guys still haven’t managed that.

Now you are insisting that ‘black’ refers ONLY to people of black African descent, as if to deny that any other group could possibly have dark skin and thus be the target of discrimination (mostly for your convenience, since we did not discriminate against people of color who were not of black African descent). The Catholic church, however, wasn’t as discriminating. You guys went for anybody at all who wasn’t caucasian–and some who were.

Nah, the more I read about the history of Catholicism and slavery/race relations, the more I am astounded that ANY of you have the chutspah to criticise MORMONS for racism.
 
Wow quite an intense/interesting thread here. I’ve only read maybe 4 pages and i’m exhausted haha.

However i would like to hear what a Catholic believes regarding Mark 7:25-28 and Acts 10:10-28 and their view of gentiles?
These only strenghten the argument that the LDS prophets were leading the church members astray. Hadn’t Peter already recieved the revelation that ALL people were to be grafted into the christian faith. Why did Bringham Young reverse the commandment given from the Lord to Peter?

Secondly, didn’t Jesus heal the gentile’s daughter? Did he withhold the healing from her daughter because she was a gentile? Absolutely not. How about the Samaritan woman at the well, did He forbid her to come back to him? So with both of these scriptures you quoted, how is it even possible to defend the Mormon’s position.
  1. And when she was come to her house, she found the devil gone out, and her daughter laid upon the bed.
 
For the last thirty-one years all worthy male members of the church have been able to hold the priesthood.
dianaiad, I’m still trying to understand how above clip can be possible when BY said the Negro would be the last to hold the priesthood? This is the third time I’ve asked and haven’t recieved a direct answer yet.

Brigham Young said in 1859 “How long is that race to endure the dreadful curse that is upon them? That curse will remain upon them, and they never can hold the Priesthood or share in it until all the other descendants of Adam have received the promises and enjoyed the blessings of the Priesthood and the keys thereof. Until the last ones of the residue of Adam’s children are brought up to that favourable position, the children of Cain cannot receive the first ordinances of the Priesthood. They were the first that were cursed, and they will be the last from whom the curse will be removed”.

Brigham Young said in 1854: "When all the other children of Adam have had the privilege of receiving the Priesthood, and of coming into the kingdom of God, and of being redeemed from the four quarters of the earth, and have received their resurrection from the dead, then it will be time enough to remove the curse from Cain and his posterity. He deprived his brother of the privilege of pursuing his journey through life, and of extending his kingdom by multiplying upon the earth; and because he did this, he is the last to share the joys of the kingdom of God".
 
At this point there is no ‘Irish American’ separate culture that would demand that all Irish worship together in a separate congregation. There is no “German American” culture that demands the same–no "Dutch American,’ or "French American,’ Or "British American’ culture that demands separate worship spaces: we all celebrate St. Patrick’s Day, and we all have Christmas trees, and we all hang the holly and the mistletoe–and we all like hot dogs, gyros and “My Big Fat Greek Wedding.” We carry our traditions, and we SHARE them.
Philadelphia Archdiocese:
  • St. Adalbert (Polish), Philadelphia
  • St. George (Lithuanian), Philadelphia
  • St. John Cantius (Polish), Philadelphia
  • St. Josaphat (Polish), Philadelphia
  • St. Lucy (Italian), Philadelphia
  • St. Mary of the Assumption (German), Philadelphia
  • Mater Dolorosa (Italian), Philadelphia
  • Mother of Divine Grace (Italian), Philadelphia
  • Our Lady Help of Christians (German), Philadelphia
  • St. Agnes-St. John Nepomucene (Slovak), Philadelphia
  • St. Andrew (Lithuanian), Philadelphia
  • St. Casimir (Lithuanian), Philadelphia
  • St. Donato (Italian), Philadelphia
  • Holy Trinity (German), Philadelphia
  • St. Laurentius (Polish), Philadelphia
  • St. Nicholas of Tolentine (Italian), Philadelphia
  • St. Peter the Apostle (German), Philadelphia
  • St. Ann (Italian), Bristol
  • Holy Trinity (Polish), Phoenixville
  • St. Joseph (Slovak), Coatesville
  • Our Lady of the Assumption (Italian), Strafford
  • Sacred Heart (Slovak), Phoenixville
  • St. Stanislaus Kostka (Polish), Coatesville
  • SS. Cosmas and Damian (Italian), Conshohocken
  • Holy Saviour (Italian), Norristown
  • Our Lady of Mount Carmel (Italian), Bridgeport
  • Sacred Heart (Polish), Swedesburg
And who said anything about separate celebrations of Feasts, Memorials and Holy Days? The entire Church, worldwide, celebrates these together. In our parish, that has a Spanish Mass, we celebrate these together, in a tri-lingual Mass. Some of the music is in Spanish, some in Latin, some in English. The readings are given alternately in Spanish and English.

We have a Spanish Mass because people who speak Spanish asked for it. It is by far the most crowded Mass I have been to, standing room only. No one makes anyone attend this Mass. Anyone can attend any Mass they like. And yes, me, a blue-eyed Catholic of European descent attends Spanish Mass now and then. I prefer the English Mass because my Spanish is really lousy.

We have no clear demarcation. Parishioners move in and out of whatever Mass they like and serve all the people in the Parish. Our Director of Liturgy is Latina. She directs the entire liturgy for all of our Masses, English and Spanish.

You are just making up total ****. At least if you are going to take the time to type something about Catholics, learn something about it first.
 
These only strenghten the argument that the LDS prophets were leading the church members astray. Hadn’t Peter already recieved the revelation that ALL people were to be grafted into the christian faith. Why did Bringham Young reverse the commandment given from the Lord to Peter?

Secondly, didn’t Jesus heal the gentile’s daughter? Did he withhold the healing from her daughter because she was a gentile? Absolutely not. How about the Samaritan woman at the well, did He forbid her to come back to him? So with both of these scriptures you quoted, how is it even possible to defend the Mormon’s position.
  1. And when she was come to her house, she found the devil gone out, and her daughter laid upon the bed.
Are these verses used to justify the racist policy held by the Mormon Church, in total, completely around the world, all of it, everywhere, without exception anywhere in the world, to not let *black men hold their #priesthood?
For the colloquially challenged
*black-people of African decent
#priesthood (Mormon priesthood) -an invention of Joseph Smith
Haha first of all, i might say, my you people are SO contentious with your responses, there is so much heat in this discussion. It’s an honest question, all i wanted was an honest reply from a Catholic willing to share his/her beliefs on why Christ called the gentile woman a dog and refused her at first, as well as why it was so difficult for Peter to conceive of the idea of sharing the Word of God with a gentile?

Are your minds so polluted with contention and debate and destroying one anothers’ faiths that you cannot answer a simple question? I mean come on a protestant jumping in to respond to a question directed for a Catholic? And it’s not like it was even an attempt to answer the question on behalf of the Catholic but simply to make a retaliation at something that was not an intended argument or position of rebutting anything. Take a breath, pop some anxiety pills, do whatever you do to get the evil intentions from your hearts. Please.

And someone answer the question, where’s the love.
 
dianaiad - I’m not Catholic, but i still don’t understand why you try to justify the racism in the early Mormon church with the same shown in the Catholic church. Wasn’t it already revealed to Joseph Smith in the “First Vision” that all other religions were apostate. So what is the big deal here? Why reduce Mormanism down to the same level as an apostate church?
 
Haha first of all, i might say, my you people are SO
Bologny, there is no doubt you were trying to move us into a continuing revelation argument asking us why Jesus had called her a dog and then then later included the gentiles in Peters vision. Peter’s vision is probaly one of the most quoted scriptures that is used to justify the on then off then on again and then off again and so on changes in doctrine for polygamy and the priesthood ban. McConkie even refered to it in his 1978 statement uplifting the ban.

You still haven’t answered why BY changed what was commanded to Peter.
 
Haha first of all, i might say, my you people are SO contentious with your responses, there is so much heat in this discussion. It’s an honest question, all i wanted was an honest reply from a Catholic willing to share his/her beliefs on why Christ called the gentile woman a dog and refused her at first, as well as why it was so difficult for Peter to conceive of the idea of sharing the Word of God with a gentile?
Catholic understanding of God Revealing Himself, over time starts with God revealing Himself to just one man – the first man. Then he revealed Himself to a family, then to a tribe, a nation, and then finally to the whole world.

Jesus came in fulfillment of OT prophecy, the promised Messiah. While alive He instructed the Apostles to not minister to the gentiles. After His Resurrection, He instructed the Apostles to teach the Gospel to the world.

Peter had a hard time because He was a Jew, and understood clearly who Jesus Christ is, the Messiah Who was prophesied in Jewish scripture. It is St. Paul who reminds him Who Jesus is.

To clarify to why it is impossible to believe Mormon ideas of exclusion based on race or any reason, is Jesus Himself gave Himself to the entire world. He died for ALL. This idea that a person can be exclude by God is a contradiction to what Jesus taught, what He fulfilled and what He Revealed.
Are your minds so polluted with contention and debate and destroying one anothers’ faiths that you cannot answer a simple question? I mean come on a protestant jumping in to respond to a question directed for a Catholic? And it’s not like it was even an attempt to answer the question on behalf of the Catholic but simply to make a retaliation at something that was not an intended argument or position of rebutting anything. Take a breath, pop some anxiety pills, do whatever you do to get the evil intentions from your hearts. Please.
Well mrparker, when you’ve seen the same mormon arguments, which are essentially an attack on Catholicism, starting with your scripture that our beliefs are an abomination and those who hold these beliefs are corrupt, you’ve got yourself a very good foundation for keeping the wolves out.
And someone answer the question, where’s the love.
The love is given for an understanding what your Destiny is, which is eternal life with Jesus Christ. This is the message the Catholic Church has given and preserved through the centuries.

There is no reason to sit back idly and watch Mormons attempt to replace Truth with lies.
 
Bologny, there is no doubt you were trying to move us into a continuing revelation argument asking us why Jesus had called her a dog and then then later included the gentiles in Peters vision. Peter’s vision is probaly one of the most quoted scriptures that is used to justify the on then off then on again and then off again and so on changes in doctrine for polygamy and the priesthood ban. McConkie even refered to it in his 1978 statement uplifting the ban.
I understand why you would think this, because naturally and sub-consciously we humans tend to think everyone else thinks by the same mental processes as ourselves; however, this is false. I doubt that I am near unto the type of confrontational personal that you have seem to assumed that i am.

You are right that often it is used to explain the Priesthood ban. But you are wrong in your assumption of my attempt to move you into an argument. I don’t care to prove to any of you how The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the true and living Church established by Christ. I will however explain my beliefs if it seems the readers/responders are somewhat interested in understanding. I came on the Catholic forum to discover and learn about Catholics, and their beliefs more clearly, that i might be educated correctly as to their beliefs and not continue to be falsely informed myself.
You still haven’t answered why B[righam]Y[oung] changed what was commanded to Peter.
If this is an honest question,
I do not believe he changed anything as they are dealing with two different “barriers” or “races” or “curses” whatever you wish to call them. But i will not continue in a false attempt to explain a learned understanding of this subject as i do not have sufficient knowledge in this to do so. I am young in my understanding, and do not profess to know more than i do. But i do know that man does not comprehend all the ways of God, nor can he on his own through man’s interpretation of the Word of God. And i continue my search for truth and light.
 
I don’t care to prove to any of you how The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the true and living Church established by Christ.
Then why even mention it? Seems to me this is exactly your intent by reading other posts you have made on this and other forums. So why are you mistating the obvious?
 
Then why even mention it? Seems to me this is exactly your intent by reading other posts you have made on this and other forums. So why are you mistating the obvious?
My intent is to prove to you why i believe what i do. But keep in mind with all things i post, you are free to disagree with and i do not and will not get frustrated with you or anyone that disagrees. I expect that most of the non-LDS posters on here will not agree with me. Which is fine as they are free agents unto themselves. Have you heard of the concept of the marketplace of ideas? Thats kind of how i think of it. Everyone throw out on the table what you believe and why you believe it, then everyone at the table, is free to read and try to understand whatever they wish.

You however seem to post for other purposes. The purposes which you have accused me of. But really it’s not a big deal. You have your conviction in your faith, and i will continue to ask questions regarding your faith that i can try and comprehend why you have come to the conclusions and beliefs you do, and i will continue to try to properly represent my faith in Christ and they why’s and how’s behind it, with no expectation of agreement, but a hope that we might all understand one another.

Does this seem weird to you?

it’s pretty simple, for example, i have come to conclude over the past couple days on here, i can understand why the Catholic church believes it has authority, if based upon the explanations of those Catholics that have been kind enough to take the time to explain how apostolic succession works and how their claimed authorities decided on which scripture to use. But because i do not share the base belief in that apostolic succession, of course every belief branching off from that will be differing. Not a surprise
 
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