Where did the anti-family vibe come from?

[LightBound]

Dear LightBound,

Cordial greetings and a very good day.

What I think is important for us to observe with the ‘worthy woman’ of this lovely chapter, is that she is a jolly industrious soul who recommends herself to her husband’s esteem and affection. A good woman, dear friend, if she enters into holy wedlock, will surely be a good wife who will make it her business to ‘please her husband’ (I Cor. 7: 34). Thus a truly virtuous woman will not have to struggle too hard to submit herself to her husband and she will be desirous to know his mind, that she may accommodate herself to it. Moreover, as a woman of faith she will have no trouble in recognising that God gave authority to the husband over the wife (Gen. 3: 16) and that her will and desire is to be subject to his will - “The husband is head of the wife as Christ is head of the Church” (see I Cor. 11: 3; 14: 34; Eph. 5: 22-24; I Tim. 2: 11, 12; Titus 2: 5; St. Pet. 3: 1,5,6). Yet, it is important to see that that there is a holiness in the subjection of the wife to the husband, for it typifies the Church’s loving obedience to Christ (Eph. 5: 24).

It says in this passage that “The heart of her husband trusts in her…” (Prov. 31: 11). This worthy woman, dear friend, conducts herself in such a manner that her husband may repose his entire confidence in her. Thus he trusts in her chastity, which, of course, she never gave him the least occasion to suspect in the first place. She is not by nature morose and moody, but modest and grave, especially in the matter of her attire, which but reflects a mind fixed upon heavenly things (Col. 3: 2). This woman has all the marks of virtue, both in her countenance and her conduct and so it is hardly surprising that “her husband trusts in her”; he is easy and so makes her so as well. He trusts her conduct implicitly and knows that she will speak in the company of others with prudence and discretion, so as not to damage his good name or occasion him any reproach. Moreover, he trusts her in her fidelity to all his interests, knowing that she will never betray his good guidance nor have her sights on anything else separate from that of his family. She is a good loyal wife that is fit to be trusted and he is a good loyal husband that will happily leave the management of all domestic affairs to her.

Finally, dear friend, we read here that the husband “will have no lack of gain” (Prov. 31: 11). She manages her husband’s affairs in such a manner that he never wants for anything; there is always food on the table and clothing upon the backs of the family members. Is it any wonder that such a blessed man delights in such a woman? Of course he does not envy his more affluent neighbours and friends, for he needs not their wealth for he has all that he requires in his virtuous loving wife. In the sad and confusing times in which our lot is cast, happy indeed the pious couple that enjoy such domestic bliss and such satisfaction as this in each other!

Undeniably, we need woman of such virtuous calibre today to foster strong and stable family life, which in turn will surely lead to the betterment of the wider society. Forces hostile to the religion of Christ, such as radical aberrant feminism, have wrought much damage in recent times and the family, alas, has not escaped unscathed. Woman of faith need to love their husbands, not crossing them, giving them good words, and not bad ones, especially if they are out of humour for some reason; endeavouring to make them feel relaxed; providing what is necessary for them, both in sickness and in health and attending to them with diligence and tenderness when anything troubles them. In so doing, dear friend, “She does him good, and not harm, all the days of her life” (Prov. 31: 12).

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

Sigh…why am I not surprised that you managed to take my post that encourages women to be intelligent and productive and turn it into your freakish obsession with submission? Portrait…you don’t need to shove this kind of thing down everyone’s throat with a pitchfork.

 

[NightHawk2005]

I get it. I do. I have never successfully interacted near an infant or any child under about 8 in my entire life and I don’t even find them cute. I can’t imagine ever wanting to have one. I have never wanted a child once in all my years of life. However no one said being Catholic would be easy and when faced with my options of having a faithful Catholic marriage with a strong possibility of children or having to say good bye to the man I love and live alone I struggled very hard with what would be the right choice. I chose to get married. That doesn’t mean I suddenly discovered I want 10 kids and want them tomorrow. It means I still want 0 and I still can’t imagine even having 1. I do want to trust in God and follow him to the best of my ability though. Which means remaining open to having children if he should send them my way.

Also, in rare cases vasectomies can reverse themselves and unplanned pregnancies can occur. The statistical likelyhood of this happening is probably about the same as winning a new car, but it does happen. How would you and your wife deal with an unplanned pregnancy? Would you have an abortion? Would you give the child up for adoption? Would you raise it? These are questions you still need to ask and discuss at the very least.

I’m sorry if I sounded rude to you, I just want you to know that you aren’t alone in feeling this way. I think this is a common feeling but as Catholics we are called to rise above our weaknesses and follow Christ. I know it would be wonderful if there was some loophole that you could find, but in the end it really will come down to a choice of following the church teaching, even though it is hard, or going against the church teaching, to satisfy yourself.

No, you were fine. To answer your question, I’d place the child up for adoption if that unfortunate event were to occur. I’m aware that a vasectomy can reverse itself, and this is one reason I plan to get it when I get engaged, rather than when I get married, so that I can confirm long before my wedding that everything is as it should be. It’s definitely something I plan to keep a close eye on once it happens.

 

[hsmomforlife]

I was just reading about problems within the Catholic Church in America and the current issues with the Leadership Conference of Women Religious and when I read Msgr. Barreiro’s comments, it made me think of the current discussion here, so I thought I would share:

"In cases like that of Sr. Farley he said:

A person who calls herself a Catholic has to write and teach in accordance with the teaching of the Church. To do otherwise is to defy not only Catholic teaching, but logic.”

To clarify, if you are a member of a club, and you want to remain the member of that club, you have to follow the rules, if you don’t, you’re not being “suppressed” if the club asks you to leave. Similarly, If you pretend to play soccer, you have to follow the rules of soccer, otherwise you are not playing the same game. You invent your own game, and you play in accordance with the rules of the new game, that could be called soccer 2. But it’s no longer soccer; it’s a different game.

If…they want to follow their own rules, fine, but it’s not Catholicism; it’s a different religion. We don’t pretend to use force against different religions, but they have to be honest and not call themselves what they are not."

The whole article can be read here:
lifesitenews.com/news/same-revolution-different-day-us-nun-touts-gay-sex-liberal-catholics-outrag
Just some interesting food for thought…

 

[hsmomforlife]

I get it. I do. I have never successfully interacted near an infant or any child under about 8 in my entire life and I don’t even find them cute. I can’t imagine ever wanting to have one. I have never wanted a child once in all my years of life. However no one said being Catholic would be easy and when faced with my options of having a faithful Catholic marriage with a strong possibility of children or having to say good bye to the man I love and live alone I struggled very hard with what would be the right choice. I chose to get married. That doesn’t mean I suddenly discovered I want 10 kids and want them tomorrow. It means I still want 0 and I still can’t imagine even having 1. I do want to trust in God and follow him to the best of my ability though. Which means remaining open to having children if he should send them my way.

Also, in rare cases vasectomies can reverse themselves and unplanned pregnancies can occur. The statistical likelyhood of this happening is probably about the same as winning a new car, but it does happen. How would you and your wife deal with an unplanned pregnancy? Would you have an abortion? Would you give the child up for adoption? Would you raise it? These are questions you still need to ask and discuss at the very least.

I’m sorry if I sounded rude to you, I just want you to know that you aren’t alone in feeling this way. I think this is a common feeling but as Catholics we are called to rise above our weaknesses and follow Christ. I know it would be wonderful if there was some loophole that you could find, but in the end it really will come down to a choice of following the church teaching, even though it is hard, or going against the church teaching, to satisfy yourself.

When I was 35, I had never even talked with a person with Down syndrome. I never interacted or had any special affinity for people with any type of special needs. At the age of 35 and two months, I gave birth to a little girl with Down syndrome…
Fast forward 9 years and I am an avid advocate, a staunch ‘inclusionist’, and a very vocal believer in the abilities of people with Down syndrome. Did I mention that I started an organization for kids with Down syndrome and their families?
Don’t underestimate yourself nor the power of God’s Grace to redirect your life…IF you are open to it.
It’s amazing what the Grace of God will do for you when He decides it is right for your life, so don’t close yourself off completely to His plan for you, by deciding your fertility.

I never WANTED any of what I described above,…but I am such a different person because of it, that I am grateful to God for it! I wouldn’t trade it for anything!

 

[Sneaux]

I don’t really think it’s anti-family, I personally, don’t want children, I don’t believe in birth control and I would never have an abortion. I love children, I think they’re precious, but I KNOW I’m not the motherly type, and I never will be, it’s just not me. I have nieces and a nephew that I love to pieces, but I don’t want my own child. Some people aren’t meant for kids. I’d rather see someone without children, that was meant for one, than someone who wasn’t with one. You can be happy without children, but people with children will never see that, because they love their children, and if I had a child I’d love it to death, I know I would I’m just terrible with kids, and I can’t handle them, at all.

 

[faithsmind]

Praise God to the Down Syndrome story above me. He is so, so good. Another story that shows us again that we gotta trust in that goodness and eternal wisdom with all our heart. He’s our loving and eternal father. There is So much joy to be discovered. Praise God!

The issue of a woman’s place in the family has been brought up on this thread. It’s difficult to understand Paul’s writings on this topic. My abusive ex-husband would often use specific quotes of Paul’s to subjugate and control me. I have since then seized my power in God and my worth as a child of God. I have regained my integrety as a valuable citizen who has rights. And yet, I would still often find myself pondering Paul’s teachings.

Here is what I now understand of these writings. I’m not an apologist or a person who has studied translations, languages, or the specific cultural historical time period to any sort of depth. I’ve only done a bit of weak googling on the issue. haha. ‘Head’ in Greek, ‘kephale’, is also a military term. A kephale was one who went before the troops, the leader in the sense of being in the lead, the first one into battle. This brings tears to my eyes. My husband used this term wrongly. Please do not do the same.

 

[faithsmind]

whoops! I didn’t realize this thread was last posted a week ago or so…

 

[aragonjohn1]

whoops! I didn’t realize this thread was last posted a week ago or so…

It’s aright

Shalom : )

 

[stiffkittenbabe]

I can only offer anecdotal evidence, but this is what i see on Facebook. For some jobs, The glass ceiling has been broken and there are some very ambitious women out there who are pushing boundaries. Obviously being a SAHM is not a viable option for them. Kids will never be a part of their life.

Divorce is another common characteristic. Several people marry their colllege sweetheart and for whatever reason it didnt work out. No kids involved but the divorcees usually take on the “im the best auntie” role. They get their kid fix that way and still get to party with friends. The divorced guys tend to dissappear for awhile only to resurface with a sports car and a girlfriend a few years their junior.

Ive also seen alot of younger folks look at marriage and kids with complete apathy. The twenty somrthing cousins of my wife fall into thismcategory. In some sense they are stil living with their parents like teenagers.

I dont really see much in the way of anti-family from any of these people. In many cases the people without kids are involved with other peoples’ kids. They have just decided that doing it full time like me isnt for them.

So to sum it up, the lack of a traditional family isnt really anti family, but can bemconsidered a product of several things: ambition/opportunity, easy divorce, apathy, and low lease payments on luxury cars.

Sorry for bad typng. Doing this in bed on my ipad with two snoring kids.

I’d love to hear a good reason why you think it should be harder or me to divorce my abusive husband who threatened to track me down and kill me.

 

[stiffkittenbabe]

Dear Calliso,

Cordial greetings and a very good day.

A married woman, dear friend, who professes religion ought to relinquish her occupation and dovote herself exclusivley to being a wife and mother, because that is her proper sphere ordained by God for the well being of the family and wider society. Indeed, it is by humble acceptance and submission to this role that a woman fulfills her true destiny.

Notwithstanding the gender confusion regarding roles these days, a woman should humbly receive the divinely ordained role of motherhood (see I Tim. 5: 14; Titus 2: 4,5) and the husband should proudly be the breadwinner and supporter of his family, unless exceptional circumstances prevent this (e.g. long term mental/physical illness). This, dear friend, is normal family life according to God’s intention for mankind. Thus, according God’s providential order, women should be “workers at home”, undertaking their domestic duties lovingly and wholeheartedly, being totally devoted to both husband and children. This is an honourable and vitally important task, irrespective of what our post-modern society says to the contrary, and should not be shunned in order to selfishly pursue a career outside of the home.

Sadly, radical aberrant feminist propaganda has made many modern women (including some Catholics) feel that they are unfulfilled if they are not a part of the workforce. Moreover, there is a shameful tendency to speak disparrangingly of the God-given role of wife and mother and to refuse to accept that marriage is the bedrock of society.

Women who are homebuilders, dear friend, make a tremendous contribution to society, inasmuch as they are providing a stable home environment for their children, being always available to counsel and console in the ups and downs of life. This will surely yeild many beneficial results in the lives of the children as they grow-up to be well-adjusted adults with little or no emotional disturbances. Whilst it is freely admitted that there are manifold reasons for behavoural problems in youth, it admits of no doubt that a mother who is hardly present in the formative years of her children can have a very negative impact upon them.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

Dear Portrait:

Your style of language is very impressive and sure to fool the naive among us into thinking that you actually have some authority on this issue. To the rest of us you seem nothing more than a creeping Jesus. Those more streetwise will realise that there is NOTHING in the Church’s teachings to suggest that unmarried women,(especially nuns!) are failing to “fulfil their true destiny.” That is merely a pompous way of telling us that women are incomplete without a man.
Women AND men are required to be humble in the Church’s teachings, yet you clearly think that being male excuses that responsibility, particularly in your case. You have also deemed women working outside of the home, as is often necessary to support their families to be “selfish”. Obviously in the case of working mothers, the majority of their salary goes to the children. Therefore selfishness, by your definition does not mean putting one’s own interests first, it simply means “being independent of one’s husband”.

Some women have done very important work outside the home, such as my mother who is a Child Protection lawyer. She has also worked for unicef, so whatever way you choose to dress it up, sorry but yes, saving lives IS more important work than changing nappies and bringing your husband his next can of beer.

“Sadly” you believe that no women would have the desire for autonomy had we not all been brainwashed by notions of equality, and we would otherwise be content to wait on our husbands hand and foot “undertaking domestic duties” as you put it. (This is called male privilege in the real world.) This opinion clearly stems from your concept of women’s intellect as inferior to your own.

Stop trying to pass off your own petty-minded bigotry as Church teaching, and I will stop laughing at you. Do we have a deal?

 

[faithsmind]

Dear Portrait:

Your style of language is very impressive and sure to fool the naive among us into thinking that you actually have some authority on this issue. To the rest of us you seem nothing more than a creeping Jesus. Those more streetwise will realise that there is NOTHING in the Church’s teachings to suggest that unmarried women,(especially nuns!) are failing to “fulfil their true destiny.” That is merely a pompous way of telling us that women are incomplete without a man.
Women AND men are required to be humble in the Church’s teachings, yet you clearly think that being male excuses that responsibility, particularly in your case. You have also deemed women working outside of the home, as is often necessary to support their families to be “selfish”. Obviously in the case of working mothers, the majority of their salary goes to the children. Therefore selfishness, by your definition does not mean putting one’s own interests first, it simply means “being independent of one’s husband”.

Some women have done very important work outside the home, such as my mother who is a Child Protection lawyer. She has also worked for unicef, so whatever way you choose to dress it up, sorry but yes, saving lives IS more important work than changing nappies and bringing your husband his next can of beer.

“Sadly” you believe that no women would have the desire for autonomy had we not all been brainwashed by notions of equality, and we would otherwise be content to wait on our husbands hand and foot “undertaking domestic duties” as you put it. (This is called male privilege in the real world.) This opinion clearly stems from your concept of women’s intellect as inferior to your own.

Stop trying to pass off your own petty-minded bigotry as Church teaching, and I will stop laughing at you. Do we have a deal?

Wowsa! I’m not sure that was quite what this guy meant kitty. Can I call you kitty?

I understood it to be him praising and honoring the work of motherhood. Not telling allllll women that they have to be mothers (even though we are literally, I mean physically, cut out for it). It’s a daily grind-mommahood, but it’s pretty powerful stuff. Difficult. Time-consuming. Hilarious. Beautiful. Terrifying. Enlightening. You can’t deny the fact of how powerful it is. The momma has one-on-one, daily, emotional contact with a human being in the most formative years of his/her life. Helping to form a human being’s dignity, mental and emotional well-being, and being a loving support system for the rest of his/her life? This is what societies are built on. A mother is a pillar. No disrespect to Jo Momma. at all. And hey, we need the nun chicks, too. They are just as much genius as the mom chicks. What do you think on this? I say, get some balls and throw out the condoms, gilfriend.

 

[faithsmind]

and kitty—if I asked my man for a glass of wine, I would hope he would get me one. thankyouverymuch.

 

[Bklynguy]

The Pill started this.

Just as Pope Paul VI predicted in Humanae Vitae.

 

[faithsmind]

When I added that last crude sentence in the 1st response, I meant that there’s a lot of fear out there when it comes to having babies. Birth Control has allowed this fear to paralyze so many people into this sterile, deceiving rationality. But I’m telling you guys, you gotta jump in. The water is great, and like I said, there’s a lot of joy to be had, especially when you relax and put your family’s welfare in God’s hands. You discover how much He loves you and how much He loves all His children idiots, really. When I became a mom, it opened my eyes wider to the fact that… WOW He loves me even more than I love this sweet little baby. Life is so beautiful. Letting go and seeking His kingdom 1st is incredibly rewarding! Don’t be afraid

 

[stiffkittenbabe]

When I added that last crude sentence in the 1st response, I meant that there’s a lot of fear out there when it comes to having babies. Birth Control has allowed this fear to paralyze so many people into this sterile, deceiving rationality. But I’m telling you guys, you gotta jump in. The water is great, and like I said, there’s a lot of joy to be had, especially when you relax and put your family’s welfare in God’s hands. You discover how much He loves you and how much He loves all His children idiots, really. When I became a mom, it opened my eyes wider to the fact that… WOW He loves me even more than I love this sweet little baby. Life is so beautiful. Letting go and seeking His kingdom 1st is incredibly rewarding! Don’t be afraid

Oh, but I am afraid: very very afraid. I am in a long distance relationship and I sometimes have to starve myself to afford travel. Any pregnancy in this situation, with a combination of my health problems and the physical strain of travel would be a miscarriage waiting to happen. Wouldn’t knowingly creating a life doomed to premature death make me a murderer in God’s eyes?

 

[stiffkittenbabe]

Wowsa! I’m not sure that was quite what this guy meant kitty. Can I call you kitty?

I understood it to be him praising and honoring the work of motherhood. Not telling allllll women that they have to be mothers (even though we are literally, I mean physically, cut out for it). It’s a daily grind-mommahood, but it’s pretty powerful stuff. Difficult. Time-consuming. Hilarious. Beautiful. Terrifying. Enlightening. You can’t deny the fact of how powerful it is. The momma has one-on-one, daily, emotional contact with a human being in the most formative years of his/her life. Helping to form a human being’s dignity, mental and emotional well-being, and being a loving support system for the rest of his/her life? This is what societies are built on. A mother is a pillar. No disrespect to Jo Momma. at all. And hey, we need the nun chicks, too. They are just as much genius as the mom chicks. What do you think on this? I say, get some balls and throw out the condoms, gilfriend.

I really didn’t mean to make it sound like stay at home moms are any less than their working counterparts. Sorry if I did at all. However that guy really does get on my wick with all his veiled sexism. He also seems to undervalue even the women who do exactly as he recommends.

 

[AthenaC]

I’d love to hear a good reason why you think it should be harder or me to divorce my abusive husband who threatened to track me down and kill me.

Dear Portrait:

Your style of language is very impressive and sure to fool the naive among us into thinking that you actually have some authority on this issue. To the rest of us you seem nothing more than a creeping Jesus. Those more streetwise will realise that there is NOTHING in the Church’s teachings to suggest that unmarried women,(especially nuns!) are failing to “fulfil their true destiny.” That is merely a pompous way of telling us that women are incomplete without a man.
Women AND men are required to be humble in the Church’s teachings, yet you clearly think that being male excuses that responsibility, particularly in your case. You have also deemed women working outside of the home, as is often necessary to support their families to be “selfish”. Obviously in the case of working mothers, the majority of their salary goes to the children. Therefore selfishness, by your definition does not mean putting one’s own interests first, it simply means “being independent of one’s husband”.

Some women have done very important work outside the home, such as my mother who is a Child Protection lawyer. She has also worked for unicef, so whatever way you choose to dress it up, sorry but yes, saving lives IS more important work than changing nappies and bringing your husband his next can of beer.

“Sadly” you believe that no women would have the desire for autonomy had we not all been brainwashed by notions of equality, and we would otherwise be content to wait on our husbands hand and foot “undertaking domestic duties” as you put it. (This is called male privilege in the real world.) This opinion clearly stems from your concept of women’s intellect as inferior to your own.

Stop trying to pass off your own petty-minded bigotry as Church teaching, and I will stop laughing at you. Do we have a deal?

:clapping:

Yes, the longer I am on here it appears that us “brainwashed” feminists are growing in number, thanks to real-life experiences of how a post-feminist world saved our lives.

 

[faithsmind]

Oh, but I am afraid: very very afraid. I am in a long distance relationship and I sometimes have to starve myself to afford travel. Any pregnancy in this situation, with a combination of my health problems and the physical strain of travel would be a miscarriage waiting to happen. Wouldn’t knowingly creating a life doomed to premature death make me a murderer in God’s eyes?

You’ve got yourself in quite the situation there, Miss.
I want to remind you that our Daddy goes beyond time and space, and we’ve got to realize we are very leetle. But he’s allowed us this incredible priveledge to cocreate within His larger plan. What was He thinking?? It’s really a scandal if you ask me. But He didn’t ask me.(Yessss.)

But I don’t think that means to abandon all common sense and just run freeee, He gave us a set of rules to follow, of course. He sent His beloved son to teach us, and part of that lesson was to know His undying love for us, and His invitation for us to give everything up for Him, too. His vulnerability is the most beautiful miracle of all. Imagine, a frail newborn as the son of God? An itty bitty bit of bread turns into his actual body, not just once, but every day, all over the place. You talk about fear? This is TERRIFYING. But He loves us so much, that He sacrificed His perfect adult body so that everyone would be able to have the chance to hold his little frail body in our soft hands and hearts. He loved us enough that He sacrificed Himself for the greater good. He was the first into battle. If that’s not a man, I don’t know what is. I hope you’ve found yourself a man, there, Miss kitty.

He gave us our wits, but He also wants us to trust. I really feel like the 2 of these have to dance together. Does this make sense?

 

[faithsmind]

:clapping:

Yes, the longer I am on here it appears that us “brainwashed” feminists are growing in number, thanks to real-life experiences of how a post-feminist world saved our lives.

Well for one thing, I’m growing to abhor the word “feminist”

 

[faithsmind]

and I don’t like the word privelige either. Is it privilege? What is that latin? I guess it’s called English now. Booo.