Where does word of God teach the Catholic Church is infallible?

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So have the other Churches so far as they know.
Who is to prove otherwise - apart from “infallibly” saying so?
 
BlackFriar said:
So have the other Churches so far as they know.
Who is to prove otherwise - apart from “infallibly” saying so?
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It’s easy to trace their origins back to their founding. And they were not founded by Jesus Christ.
 
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Its not really the Catholic Church itself or the Pope that is infallible but the God’s Word that is infallible by the power of the Holy Spirit that guides the Pope and the Catholic Church to recognize the truth of God’s Word. In general the Pope and the Catholic Church as a whole are silent on many of Scripture’s verses until contrary voices call attention to whatever verse in Scripture is called into question, or some interpretation is given that may or may not be the correct one. it might take centuries before the Pope and the Catholic Church decides one way or the other what the truth is concerning that has been voiced over time as to the correctness and the truth of an interpretation of a verse or verses in Scripture.

The Pope and the Catholic Church does not just come up with a interpretation of what a verse might say and mean. The Pope and the Catholic Church rely of the guidance of the Holy Spirit to guide them to the truth that is being contested. The Pope does not just come up with a doctrine out of thin air but consults all available sources the Bishops and other learned men to discern the truth. The Pope and the Catholic Church has no authority to change any truth revealed but must at all times promote the truth that has been revealed under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. This is why in the nearly 2000 year history of the Catholic Church no truth that has been revealed in Scripture has ever been changed…
 
BlackFriar, Anyone can say that what they teach in churches is infallible, but the truth is with the Catholic Church; the Pope is infallible only when speaking ex cathedra which the Pope does rarely and when he does its to state authentic teachings in line with Scripture, tradition and the whole analogy of faith. There is no new public revelations pertaining to the divine deposit of faith. The Catholic Church can only voice what has already been revealed by the Holy Spirit and is guided to that truth when it has been contested.
 
De_Maria said:
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BlackFriar:
Why would you believe Judaism and Orthodox Catholicism are not founded by God?
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You said that, I didn’t. Read my response again.
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See post #70.
As others have said, you seem to make no sense.
 
As I say Judaism was founded by God and has lasted well without the same claims to infallibility as Catholicism.

Likewise the Orthodox Church. To say it was not founded by God and is still beloved of God is somewhat extreme.

Thus simply alleging that God is on our side doesnt seem to imply Catholic style infallibility must be believed by that religion.
 
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So the question is how is the Catholic Church’s self proclamation of this truth about its truth justified any diffetently from how these other religions claim they speak for God? What is the basis for this authority other than their own subjective mediation of what God or some other suprnatural being allegedly told them.

Many see the authority arguments as circular so that would suggest that the truths taught by such religions is certainly wise and consensually true. But if any of them speak infallibly true only one can it would seem by logic.
But how would an outsider ever be able to know which one is infallibly true if any religions founded by the true God speak infallibly of Him as seems to be asserted.

So if its given given all religions who proclaim they are founded by God speak infallibly about him then, if more than one says it is the only true religion, that suggests all speak prudentially and wisely about God though with some admixture of human confusion that needs to be discerned and tested over time. This seems to be how most major enduring religions operate. It works very well.
Claims to absolute truth and infallibility dont seem to add a ything further.
 
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You’re kidding right? Here’s what I said to you in post #62
BlackFriar said:
Ahem, yes he would. Judaism for example.

Are the Ten Commandments fallible? Did God not establish Judaism with those Teachings?

I think you’re answering the question, “Did God establish a fallible church in the OT?”

To which I would also say yes.

Let me highlight the difference that I see between Judaism and Catholicism.

God established Judaism upon infallible Teaching. Even Jesus said:

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
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“BlackFriar said:
As I say Judaism was founded by God
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As I said, as well, Post #62
and has lasted well
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With this, I disagree. Judaism was fulfilled by Jesus Christ.

The Judaism established by God has disappeared. Judaism is now like Protestantism. There is no longer a central authority for Judaism as there was when God appointed Moses.

Modern movements or denominations of Judaism
without the same claims to infallibility as Catholicism.
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Judaism could not claim infallibility since God prophesied that Israel would fall and become a byword to the nations.
Likewise the Orthodox Church. To say it was not founded by God and is still beloved of God is somewhat extreme.
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The Orthodox Church came into being when the Orthodox broke away from the Catholic Church in 1054.
Thus simply alleging that God is on our side doesnt seem to imply Catholic style infallibility must be believed by that religion.
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Who said that it should? I haven’t mentioned at all what the Orthodox should believe. I’ve merely stated that the Catholic Church is infallible based upon Scriptural testimony (Matt 16:18; Eph 3:10; 1 Tim 3:15).
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Bootsy said:
He can speak to anyone, anywhere.
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True. And He does. But normally, He speaks through the Institution that He established to pass down the Teachings of Jesus Christ.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
 
“Bootsy said:
Oh how you are so engrained to think only ONE institution is established by God. In the Bible there was not an ‘institution’, just Jesus seekers and followers. Be careful that you let an institution think for you. Again Christ’s people exist in many churches.
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First, Jesus Christ appointed a Pastor as head of the entire Church:
John 21:17
He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

I see only a few Churches with such a Pastor. Further, Jesus Christ said that the Pastor over His Church would be infallible:

Matthew 16:17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

The list of Churches accept this teaching gets smaller. Certainly, all Protestant denominations can now be eliminated.

Jesus Christ not only said that the Pastor was infallible but Scripture describes the Church as infallible:
Ephesians 3:10
To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

The list remains the same, but now I can certainly eliminate all Protestant denominations.

Back to Matt 16:18, Scripture says that Jesus Christ established one Church. History shows that all the Churches sprang from the Church which is frequently described as the Mother Church. The Catholic Church.

So, even using just a few verses we can eliminate the Protestants. None of their denominations even come close to being in Scripture. But we can continue to find Catholic indicators throughout the Bible:

The Church which is infallible (1 Tim 3:15; Eph 3:10).
The Church which is united (Eph 4:5).
The doctrines of the Catholic Church which are distinctive from other churches:
Purgatory (1 Cor 3:15).
Eucharist (1 Cor 11:23-27).
Communion of Saints (Rom 12:12-20).
The Mass and the necessity to attend (Heb 10:25-31).
The Sacrament of Confession (Heb 13:17).
The Sacrament of Holy Orders (1 Tim 4:14).
The Sacrament of Baptism (Titus 3:5).
Justification and salvation by faith and works (Rom 2:1-13).
 
BlackFriar, Do you mean different religions or just Christians, or maybe the pagan religions as it seem to or appears you are lumping all religious beliefs with your first paragraph? Judaism was in a sense founded in Abraham and Moses and the Prophets that revealed God’s Word which was fulfilled in Christ Jesus as preached and taught by the Apostles who formed the Catholic Church with Christ as its head with Peter as its solid foundation; the Rock. After Christ rose from the dead and ascended into heaven how would those very early Christians know what to believe if not for the Apostles and the Churches they founded? The teachings of Christ some of which were written down has been passed on to the present day without blemish or change. The Catholic Church does not take lightly its responsibilities to ensure all it teaches is true under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The Church will remain silent til such time as some meaning is contested and then it might take centuries before the Church decides the issue. If the Church ; the Pope is not infallible in its teachings then what is the point in believing anything the Church says? or for that matter anything to be found in Scripture since Scripture was written by men who were inspired by God to write what they wrote which is to say how do we even know if what was written in Scripture is the Word of God and if it is then who has the authority to proclaim what it says and means?

Ait is so much today form so many churches each claiming to be Bible based and understands what all the Bible says and means but are never in any agreement with the others, yet they claim to be infallible in their interpretations as well as those who read Scripture privately and also make the claim to understand everything to be found in Scripture and each has their own interpretations of it saying they are correct. its the very reason as to why the Catholic Church remains the same in its teachings of the truth that have been passed on from Christ to the Apostles to the present day, Without it the truth would be what whomever wanted it to be even if it were a lie since no one would know the difference between the lie and the truth.
 
Bootsy said:
Bible believing churches don’t claim to be infallable, only the Catholic church does
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The Catholic Church wrote the New Testament and put the Bible together. The irony is that those Protestants who call themselves “Bible believing churches” are actually not.

And we find that the Protestant doctrinal pillars all contradict Scripture. For instance:

Sola Scriptura contradicts 2 Thess 2:152 Thessalonians 2:15
King James Version (KJV)
15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Sola Fide contradicts James 2:24
James 2:24
King James Version (KJV)
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

OSAS contradicts Heb 6:4-6
Hebrews 6:4-6
King James Version (KJV)
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Every Protestant doctrine which contradicts the Catholic Church also contradicts the Word of God in the Bible.

So, the fact that Jesus Christ established the Catholic Church is recorded in the New Testament. And Protestants nor their doctrines are anywhere to be found in those venerable pages.
 
NoelFitz said:
The infallibility of the Church was dogmatically defined in Vat I.
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That confirmed the Charism which Jesus gave the Church when He established it.

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
 
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