Where is Catholicism in the Bible?

[Gamera]

I admit my confusion and mistake about that, but what is the scriptual basis for the sign of the cross. Why is it important to do it?

The “scriptural basis” is 1 Peter 2:9: “But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s own people, that you may declare the wonderful deeds of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.” This “priesthood” of all the baptized is properly exercized by our use of sacramentals (sacred signs) such as the making of the sign of the cross, CCC 1667-1679. “Every baptized person is called to be a blessing and to bless,” CCC 1669.

Please note that “sacramentals” like making the sign of the cross are not to be confused with “sacraments.” Two different things.

 

[Allan1972]

1)What about the folks that have not heard the word of God? how will they be “saved”

1. What about the mormons who hear the word of God? Will they be saved" even if they beleive in Jospeh Smith and the book of mormon too?
2. What about the JW’s who have heard the word of God? yet they are not allowed to ask questions and believe that they are the only ones who are going to paradise?
3. What about the Muslims that believe in the propjesy of Muhhamed?

I don’t know what your point is. What about them?

 

[Allan1972]

But it was written and promulgated by mere men. (Catholics, at that!!) Jesus Himself never wrote down a single word of it.

When did I say he did?

 

[Allan1972]

The “scriptural basis” is 1 Peter 2:9: “But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s own people, that you may declare the wonderful deeds of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.” This “priesthood” of all the baptized is properly exercized by our use of sacramentals (sacred signs) such as the making of the sign of the cross, CCC 1667-1679. “Every baptized person is called to be a blessing and to bless,” CCC 1669.

Please note that “sacramentals” like making the sign of the cross are not to be confused with “sacraments.” Two different things.

That scripture says nothing about doing a hand motion.

And also since I haven’t brought it up yet. if you look at the new testamet, you will see that their weren’t any Christian priests anymore except Jesus the high priest who took away the necessity of the old law sacrifices so their was no need for priests. Why does the Catholic Church still have priests?

 

[Mannyfit75]

When did I say he did?

The Apostles, Matthew and John, wrote the Gospels. Mark a companion of Luke wrote the Gospel of Mark. Luke also the companion of Paul wrote the Gospel of Luke, and Acts. Jesus did not write anything.

His preaching was orally transmitted from Jesus to his Apostles. The first Christians received the Jesus as the Messiah orally. The NT was not written after 20 yrs or more after the Ascension of Jesus into heaven.

 

[Gamera]

That scripture says nothing about doing a hand motion.

And also since I haven’t brought it up yet. if you look at the new testamet, you will see that their weren’t any Christian priests anymore except Jesus the high priest who took away the necessity of the old law sacrifices so their was no need for priests. Why does the Catholic Church still have priests?

I didn’t claim that that Scripture “said something about doing a hand motion.” That wasn’t your question. Your question was, what is the Scriptural basis for making the sign of the cross? The answer is, 1 Peter 2:9 says that all believers share in Christ’s priesthood.

Why do you say that the New Testament says “there weren’t any Christian priests anymore?” What verse says that? On the contrary, 1 Peter 2:9, which we’ve just discussed, says that we ALL share in Christ’s priesthood.

 

[jmcrae]

When did I say he did?

You said that you don’t follow the words of men. But the Bible is the words of men. Jesus didn’t write any of it. Human beings (the same guys who founded the Catholic Church, and can’t be trusted for their Traditions) wrote it.

 

[Allan1972]

In Scripture Studies? And you didn’t know that the word “Bishop” is in the Bible?

Would you like a list? You stated with certainty that the word “Bishop” cannot be found in the Bible.

You stated with certainty that the Hail Mary is prayed by making a mark like a cross.

And you keep denying that you are a sola scriptura Protestant - that is, a person who is not a Catholic, who believes that only what is in the Bible can be considered true with any certainty - despite the fact that you deny being Catholic, and you keep saying that everything has to be proven from Scripture.

Just because someone doesn’t know everything there is to know doesn’t mean they are ignorant. Do you know everything? Obviously you don’t know everything or you wouldn’t be a Catholic.

 

[Allan1972]

Let us define a Protestant Allan 1972

Protestant : is one who protest against the Church

Allan using this definition you are a protestant because you are protesting against the Church.

Here is a list of protestants (which are christian) allan
Just like us Catholics are Christian

1. Lutherans
2. Anglicans
3. Baptist
4. Methodist
5. Presbytarians
6. Church of Christ
7. non denominational = means they have no affiliation with any group of churches like the southern baptist association.

the list continues and continues allan and all of these christian churches preach a different gospel, yet the Catholic Church preaches one gospel with one doctrine and yes over our 2000 year history our church has made a few changes, but not once in our 2000 year history have we made a mistake within the context of church doctrine or dogma

Since catholics insist on categorizing everything and having a name for everything then call me a non-denominational. Catholics have been calling people heretics for 2000 years but that is what they are. A few changes. Everything from blashemy by calling themselves Father. Putting Mary above God. And I don’t care what they say, they do worship her.

 

[jmcrae]

Just because someone doesn’t know everything there is to know doesn’t mean they are ignorant.

They are ignorant of the things that they don’t know. They are parading around in ignorance if they just throw stuff out there without doing any research.

 

[RNRobert]

Well if all these people have bibles, since this was a hypothetical question, then he should learn to read and he can find out for himself. That would be the answer.

But suppose this person lives in a place where there are no schools, and books are too expensive (and remember, before the printing press, only the rich could afford to buy books or to go to school), how is he to learn?
And even supposing he does learn to read. Odds are he won’t know the original languages, so he has no way of knowing if his translation of Scripture is correct (for instance, take the New World Translation of the Jehovah’s Witnesses: would you recommend this as a Bible to use? Why or why not?). The Bible itself says it contains things hard to understand. Who is the person to go to if he doesn’t understand what Scripture says?

 

[RNRobert]

. Putting Mary above God. And I don’t care what they say, they do worship her.

Now, you definitely **are **showing your ignorance. We do **not **put Mary above, not do we worship her. We give her due honor as the mother of God. If you actually attended a Catholic Mass, you would see the focus is on Jesus.

 

[Allan1972]

A Christian needs the Church and the Bible. It was the Church who gave us the Bible.

God gave you the bible. Men were inspired by the Holy Spirit and God was the author of the stories since he planned everything that happened in the Bible. But I’m not denying that Christians need the Church, but the Catholic Church is not THE CHURCH. It is just a denomination or different doctrine.

 

[jmcrae]

But suppose this person lives in a place where there are no schools, and books are too expensive (and remember, before the printing press, only the rich could afford to buy books or to go to school), how is he to learn?

Don’t waste your time. We’ve been around this merry go round before. The answer is “The Holy Spirit.” Even though each one has his own individually unique and contradicting interpretation - meaning that either the Holy Spirit is severely schizo, or else there are a great many different Holy Spirits - because all that matters is that yah buh-LEEEVE, Brothah - it doesn’t actually matter what you believe.

Except if you’re Catholic, of course, and then everything is suspect.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Since catholics insist on categorizing everything and having a name for everything then call me a non-denominational. Catholics have been calling people heretics for 2000 years but that is what they are. A few changes. Everything from blashemy by calling themselves Father. Putting Mary above God. And I don’t care what they say, they do worship her.

Again another Protestant (Allan) claim that we worship Mary.

No where in the Catechism of the Catholic Church do we put Mary above God. We honor her, and we do not give her any equality to God.

CCC

2097 To adore God is to acknowledge, in respect and absolute submission, the “nothingness of the creature” who would not exist but for God. To adore God is to praise and exalt him and to humble oneself, as Mary did in the Magnificat, confessing with gratitude that he has done great things and holy is his name. The worship of the one God sets man free from turning in on himself, from the slavery of sin and the idolatry of the world.

2113 Idolatry not only refers to false pagan worship. It remains a constant temptation to faith. Idolatry consists in divinizing what is not God. Man commits idolatry whenever he honors and reveres a creature in place of God, whether this be gods or demons (for example, satanism), power, pleasure, race, ancestors, the state, money, etc. Jesus says, “You cannot serve God and mammon.” Many martyrs died for not adoring “the Beast” refusing even to simulate such worship. Idolatry rejects the unique Lordship of God; it is therefore incompatible with communion with God.

266 “Now this is the Catholic faith: We worship one God in the Trinity and the Trinity in unity, without either confusing the persons or dividing the substance; for the person of the Father is one, the Son’s is another, the Holy Spirit’s another; but the Godhead of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is one, their glory equal, their majesty coeternal” (Athanasian Creed: DS 75; ND 16).

 

[Mannyfit75]

God gave you the bible. Men were inspired by the Holy Spirit and God was the author of the stories since he planned everything that happened in the Bible. But I’m not denying that Christians need the Church, but the Catholic Church is not THE CHURCH. It is just a denomination or different doctrine.

The Bible is the collection of both the OT and the NT. Yes, God gave us the Bible through His Holy Church, through the Councils.

Yes, the Catholic Church is Christ’s Church. It’s been like that for 2,000 yrs. Protestantism like yourself has only been around since 1517 A.D.

The contemporary evangelical movement has its origins in the 18th century, when the First Great Awakening was deeply influencing American religious life, while the Methodist movement was beginning to renew parts of British Christianity, although this was at first resisted by the majority of the Anglican established church.

 

[Allan1972]

I didn’t claim that that Scripture “said something about doing a hand motion.” That wasn’t your question. Your question was, what is the Scriptural basis for making the sign of the cross? The answer is, 1 Peter 2:9 says that all believers share in Christ’s priesthood.

Why do you say that the New Testament says “there weren’t any Christian priests anymore?” What verse says that? On the contrary, 1 Peter 2:9, which we’ve just discussed, says that we ALL share in Christ’s priesthood.

But it doesn’t say anything about a hand motion.

Why didn’t any of the disciples or Christians iin the new testament call themselves priests?

 

[RNRobert]

Don’t waste your time. We’ve been around this merry go round before. The answer is “The Holy Spirit.” Even though each one has his own individually unique and contradicting interpretation - meaning that either the Holy Spirit is severely schizo, or else there are a great many different Holy Spirits - because all that matters is that yah buh-LEEEVE, Brothah - it doesn’t actually matter what you believe.

Except if you’re Catholic, of course, and then everything is suspect.

In the 1930’s there was a Louisiana governor named Huey Long. His election slogan was “Every man a king.” Protestants (or non-denoms, or whatever) have as their slogan “Every man a Pope.” Excepting, of course, the fellow in Rome who is the Pope. :whacky:
Why is it that non-Catholics trumpet the virtue of personal interpretation of the Bible. yet when someone’s personal interpretation is the same as that taught by the Catholic Church, they’re wrong?

 

[RNRobert]

Allan,

I have some questions for you, and they must be answered by Scripture alone:

Using Scripture alone, please tell me:

1. Where it says that the number of books in the New Testament is officially 27.
2. Where does it say what books belong in the NT?
3. Where does it say what versions of the books belong in the NT? For example: There was a version of Matthew’s Gospel that had 8 chapters worth of text. Another with 18. A third with 28. Which one is the correct one, using Scripture alone?
4. Where does it say which TRANSLATION of the books in the NT is the correct one?

By accepting the 27-book canon of the NT, you are implicitly accepting the authority of the Catholic Church that determined the canon.

 

[Mannyfit75]

But it doesn’t say anything about a hand motion.

Why didn’t any of the disciples or Christians iin the new testament call themselves priests?

James 5:14-16.

Is anyone among you sick? 6 He should summon the presbyters of the church, and they should pray over him and anoint (him) with oil in the name of the Lord, and the prayer of faith will save the sick person, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed any sins, he will be forgiven.

There were priests in the NT. The Apostles are apostles but they appointed men to be priests, deacons, etc since the Christian community was growing they needed extra hands to administer to the faithful.