Where is Catholicism in the Bible?

[Texan_in_DC]

Allan 1972 to answer your threads quesrtion about catholicsim in the bible the Hail Mary is pretty catholic and also biblical, sir

The Hail Mary

The prayer:

"Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen. "

The prayer, Scripturally analyzed:

Lk 1:28 “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you.”

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee…

Lk 1:38 “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!”

blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.

1 Cor 7:34 “And the unmarried woman or girl is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to be holy in body and spirit.”

Holy Mary,

**Lk 2:6-7 **“And while they were there, the time came for her to be delivered. 7 And she gave birth to her first-born son…”

Mother of God,

2 Cor 1:11 “You also must help us by prayer, so that many will give thanks on our behalf for the blessing granted us in answer to many prayers.”

pray for us sinners now…

Mt 10:22 “But he who endures to the end will be saved.”

and at the hour of our death. Amen.

 

[Allan1972]

**Are you worshipping as the first disciples worshipped?

Do you believe what they believed?

How do you know? Scripture relates only the first 50 years of discipleship.

Have you read the works of the early disciples of the Church in order to find out what they believed?

**

First question, Idon’t know what you mean buy worshiping?
2nd Yes. I believe like they believe. The first 50 years was the first disciples. Yes.

 

[Texan_in_DC]

Mary, Perpetual Virgin

Is 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanu-el.

Some argue that the phrase **“young woman” **does not imply “virgin.” There are two versions of the Old Testament, one called the Septuagint, the other referred to as the Jamnian canon. The Jamnian canon has the word “young woman,” while the Septuagint has the word “virgin.” The Septuagint is the canonical version accepted by the Catholic Church and used by Christ and the Apostles. Keep in mind also that the sign value of a young woman bearing a child is not nearly so great as that of a virgin bearing a child. Why King Ahaz (the person to whom the prophecy was made) would regard the former as fulfillment of prophecy is not at all clear, while his (and our) motivation to consider the latter to be fulfillment is, to say the least, somewhat easier to understand.

Is 66:6-8 "Hark, an uproar from the city! A voice from the temple! The voice of the Lord, rendering recompense to his enemies! 7 "Before she was in labor she gave birth; before her pain came upon her she was delivered of a son. 8 Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Shall a land be born in one day? Shall a nation be brought forth in one moment? For as soon as Zion was in labor she brought forth her sons.

She will give birth to the Saviour without experiencing pain. Thus, in a certain sense, the virgin birth prefigured the Resurrection. Just as Christ miraculously leaves His mother’s womb, so will He miraculously leave the tomb.

Mic 5:1-2 Now you are walled about with a wall; siege is laid against us; with a rod they strike upon the cheek the ruler of Israel. 2 But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, who are little to be among the clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me one who is to be ruler in Israel, whose origin is from of old, from ancient days.

**The birth will take place in Bethlehem.
**
Joel 2:29 Even upon the menservants and maidservants in those days, I will pour out my spirit.

Lk 1:34-35,38 And Mary said to the angel, “How shall this be, since I have no husband?” 35 And the angel said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God… And Mary said, “Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her.

Song 4:12 A garden locked is my sister, my bride, a garden locked, a fountain sealed

The Song of Songs has long been held to be not only a description of Christ’s love for the Church, but of God’s love for Mary, who is the Bride of the Holy Spirit, for God does not rape nor does He fornicate, but He marries.

Prov 31:10-12 A good wife who can find? She is far more precious than jewels. 11 The heart of her husband trusts in her, and he will have no lack of gain. 12 She does him good, and not harm, all the days of her life.

Ezek 44:2-3 And he said to me, “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut. 3 Only the prince may sit in it to eat bread before the Lord; he shall enter by way of the vestibule of the gate, and shall go out by the same way.”

Ezekial’s poetic vision of the Temple of the New Jerusalem confirms the reference made in Isaiah. The mother of the Lord will be a virgin.

Mt 1:24-25 When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him; he took his wife, 25 but knew her not until she had borne a son; and he called his name Jesus.

This does NOT mean he had marital relations with her afterward.

Mt 27:59-60 And Joseph took the body, and wrapped it in a clean linen shroud, 60 and laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn in the rock;

Lk 23:53 Then he took it down and wrapped it in a linen shroud, and laid him in a rock-hewn tomb, where no one had ever yet been laid.

Jn 19:41 Now in the place where he was crucified there was a garden, and in the garden a new tomb where no one had ever been laid.

Jerome, arguably the greatest Biblical scholar in the history of the Western Church, asserted that Mary’s perpetual virginity complemented Christ’s burial in the “virginal” sepulchre - no one would be buried in Christ’s tomb after Him, and no child would be born of Mary’s womb after Him.

 

[Texan_in_DC]

First question, Idon’t know what you mean buy worshiping?
2nd Yes. I believe like they believe. The first 50 years was the first disciples. Yes.

really you can honsetly say that you believe what they believe at the same time question mary’s virginity after the birth of Christ.

Really?

 

[NotWorthy]

Just because someone doesn’t know everything there is to know doesn’t mean they are ignorant. Do you know everything? Obviously you don’t know everything or you wouldn’t be a Catholic.

If any of you had any doubts as to our good Allan’s intentions…

Bye bye, Allen, and thanks for all the laughs.

 

[Texan_in_DC]

There are two versions of the Old Testament, one called the Septuagint, the other referred to as the Jamnian canon. The Jamnian canon has the word “young woman,” while the Septuagint has the word “virgin.” The Septuagint is the canonical version accepted by the Catholic Church and used by Christ and the Apostles.

Allan 1972 which one do you use if you were going to sit down and translate the bible which you claim would be easy, the bible of your choice used the Jamnian cannon but again which would you choose?

 

[Texan_in_DC]

If any of you had any doubts as to our good Allan’s intentions…

Bye bye, Allen, and thanks for all the laughs.

I think we all understand that Allan 1972 has no intention of learning the truth here.

I still though am waiting for his answers though
especially about mary having other children

 

[Allan1972]

Yes, Mary’s perpetual virginity is a required Catholic belief, and no, Mary did not have any other children. New Testament references to “brothers” of Jesus refer to Jesus’ cousins.

yes, I’ve heard that they think that they are cousins, but the lexicon doesn’t say cousin.

 

[Texan_in_DC]

yes, I’ve heard that they think that they are cousins, but the lexicon doesn’t say cousin.

who are they? that you talk about that thinks brothers are referring to cousins?

and the Catholic Church through sacred tradition does not think but knows for certain that Mary not only had no more children after Christ but remained a virgin.

 

[jmcrae]

yes, I’ve heard that they think that they are cousins, but the lexicon doesn’t say cousin.

Tell me this, Allan. Is your lexicon an inspired work of the Holy Spirit, like the Scriptures and the Tradition? Or is it merely a work of man?

The Tradition is the Holy Spirit’s way of teaching us how to understand the Scriptures, and it tells us that Mary was (and still is) a perpetual virgin - she never gave birth to any other children.

If you use a Concordance and look up every instance of Jesus’ “brother” James, you will discover that although his mother was named Mary, his father was named Alphaeus - not Joseph - and that this Mary was actually a cousin of Mary the mother of Jesus. So, James was a second cousin of Jesus - kin to him, but not a son of Mary and Joseph, and thus, not his literal brother.

 

[Allan1972]

There are two versions of the Old Testament, one called the Septuagint, the other referred to as the Jamnian canon. The Jamnian canon has the word “young woman,” while the Septuagint has the word “virgin.” The Septuagint is the canonical version accepted by the Catholic Church and used by Christ and the Apostles.

Allan 1972 which one do you use if you were going to sit down and translate the bible which you claim would be easy, the bible of your choice used the Jamnian cannon but again which would you choose?

Of course, I would choose the one that says that she was a Virgin. I believe she was a Virgin when she had Jesus but not when she had his brothers. And what is so important about Mary being a Virgin after Jesus’s birth?

 

[Texan_in_DC]

Ex nihilo Creation: All Christians know that God created the world out of nothing, but the Protestant Scriptures do not say this anywhere. Some of the Bible commentaries on Genesis 1:1-2 assert that the Hebrew phrase, “the earth was a formless waste and darkness was on the face of the deep,” was a Hebrew metaphor for ex nihilo creation, but the evidence in support of this assertion is not particularly compelling. Indeed, before the canon of Scripture was established, the earliest fathers of the Church had to make this point through reason alone to their pagan opponents. Clement (ca. 150-215 A.D.) appears to have been the first person to state and give a proof from reason for ex nihilo creation, while Tertullian (ca. 160-225 A.D.) conceded that creation out of nothing was not explicitly stated anywhere in the Bible, but argued from the silence of Scripture to say this manner of creation had to be the case. Both Christian apologists realized that God and matter could not be co-eternal - God’s existence had to precede the existence of matter or His omnipotence could be called into question. It was only with the definition of the canon of Scripture, established between 382 and 419 A.D., that any book of Scripture taught the doctrine explicitly:** “I beseech you, my child, to look at the heaven and the earth and see everything that is in them, and recognize that God did not make them out of things that existed” 2 Maccabees 7:28.**

 

[jmcrae]

Of course, I would choose the one that says that she was a Virgin.

If the bible you use has 39 books in the Old Testament, then your Old Testament is the one that says the mother of the Messiah would be a “young woman” and not a “virgin.”

The version of the Old Testament that says she would be a “virgin” has 46 books - this is the one that Catholics use.

I believe she was a Virgin when she had Jesus but not when she had his brothers.

The interesting thing about those “brothers” is that none of them had Mary for their mother, or Joseph for their father.

And what is so important about Mary being a Virgin after Jesus’s birth?

The fact that it is true. Don’t you think it’s important to believe things that are true?

 

[Allan1972]

Tell me this, Allan. Is your lexicon an inspired work of the Holy Spirit, like the Scriptures and the Tradition? Or is it merely a work of man?

The Tradition is the Holy Spirit’s way of teaching us how to understand the Scriptures, and it tells us that Mary was (and still is) a perpetual virgin - she never gave birth to any other children.

If you use a Concordance and look up every instance of Jesus’ “brother” James, you will discover that although his mother was named Mary, his father was named Alphaeus - not Joseph - and that this Mary was actually a cousin of Mary the mother of Jesus. So, James was a second cousin of Jesus - kin to him, but not a son of Mary and Joseph, and thus, not his literal brother.

The lexicon is just a dictionary to let you see the closest meaning to the original word.

What about his other brothers since the bible talks about more than one.

 

[NotWorthy]

I think we all understand that Allan 1972 has no intention of learning the truth here.

I still though am waiting for his answers though
especially about mary having other children

Don’t worry. He’ll find an anti-catholic web-site, and cut and past how James and Joses and Simon and Jude were all brothers. You can show him how all those had different mothers than Mary.

Then our good friend will reveal something else that he once heard on TV (I gotta admit, though, the Mary with the supposed sign of the cross was a new one on me!!!), and then we’ll travel around the same circles.

With his intentions revealed, I don’t see any reason to deal with him anymore. He’s not coming to learn, he’s here simply to spread some more anti-catholic rhetoric. I don’t mind answering honest inquiries, but I can’t see the point with him.

Good luck, anyway.

 

[Church_Militant]

yes, I’ve heard that they think that they are cousins, but the lexicon doesn’t say cousin.

Then your lexicon is faulty in its scholarship. If you were as knowledgeable as you try to be you’d know all this already.

The simple articles on the main page library should give you plenty to consider, but so far I can’t tell that you’ve taken the time to read a single one.

When people charitably point out to you that you are wrong about something that they are surprised that you didn’t know, you allege they are insulting you, which is not the case.

The fact is that you came into this forum and began to make and continue to make comments and allegation like “if you knew as much as you think you do you wouldn’t be Catholics” which really is offensive and insulting…especially to me, because I have studied to show myself approved unto God and it is because of that study that I returned to the Catholic faith after about 34 years as an evangelical protestant.

Why did I do that? Because I studied from both sides and found the n-C case wanting and the factual teachings of the Catholic Church to be spot on. Read my story here.

If you feel frustrated, I suggest that you back off and study what the Catholic Church really teaches from a Catholic source like The Catholic Home Study Service.

It’ll make all the difference in the world.

 

[Texan_in_DC]

Of course, I would choose the one that says that she was a Virgin. I believe she was a Virgin when she had Jesus but not when she had his brothers. And what is so important about Mary being a Virgin after Jesus’s birth?

ok again mary did not have any other son’s

the english word cousin does not exist in the hebrew or arabic language, so brother was put in its place.

and again show me in the bible where you make this claim sir that mary had other children.

if cousin = brother you cant go down that road now can you

to answer your question about the importance of Mary being ever virgin is one its the truth and to me the truth is very very important, and two it shows the total commitment to her role as his mother, our mother and every virtue she has.

 

[Church_Militant]

The lexicon is just a dictionary to let you see the closest meaning to the original word.

What about his other brothers since the bible talks about more than one.

Brethren of the Lord

 

[Texan_in_DC]

Allan 1972 provide the name of the “beloved disciple”: Remarkable, but true. The only reason we know the beloved disciple was John, the author of the Gospel, is through Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium. It is to be found nowhere in Sacred Scripture.

 

[jmcrae]

The lexicon is just a dictionary to let you see the closest meaning to the original word.

If it was written by someone who didn’t want us to know about Mary being a virgin, then it might be missing some information.

What about his other brothers since the bible talks about more than one.

If one of them was a cousin, it stands to reason that they all were, but you can do word studies on all the ones that are named, and you will see that none of them are sons of Mary or Joseph.

The Tradition confirms that Mary had no other children, and no one started speculating that she had until less than 200 years ago.