Where is Catholicism in the Bible?

[Mannyfit75]

Allan, I want you to consider a few verses.

Intercessory Prayer of Saints
Rom 15:30 - join me by your prayers to God on my behalf
Col 4:3, 1Thess 5:25 - pray for us
2Thess 1:11 - we always pray for you
2Thess 3:1 - finally, brothers, pray for us
Eph 6:18-19 - making supplication for all the saints & for me
Tob 12:12 - angel presents Tobit & Sarah’s prayer to God
Ps 148 - David calls upon angels
Zech 1:12 - angel intercedes for Jerusalem
Mk 12:25, Mt 22:30 - men in heaven are as the angels
Rev 5:8 - those in heaven offer prayers of the holy ones to God
Mk 12:26-27 - he is God of the living, not of the dead
Mk 9:4 - Jesus seen conversing with Elijah & Moses
Lk 9:31 - Elijah & Moses aware of earthly events
Rev 6:9-11 - martyrs under altar want earthly vindication
Heb 12:1 - we are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses
Lk 16:19-30 - departed rich man intercedes for brothers
Rev 20:4 - saw the souls of those who had been beheaded
Wis 3:1-6 - the souls of the just are in the hand of God
2Macc 15:7-16 - the departed Onias & Jeremiah pray for the Jews
Jas 5:16 prayers of righteous man
1 Cor. 13:12 - I shall understand fully
1 John 4: 20-21 - whoever loves God must love his brother
1 Cor 12:21 - parts of Christ’s Body cannot say to other parts, “I do not need you”.

source: geocities.com/thecatholic…heatsheet.html

Now, during the Transfiguration Jesus wasn’t summoning demons or evil spirits to tell the future and thereby sinning, was he? Of course not. He is showing the unity of the Body of Christ that extends beyond earth and into heaven.

God allows the saints in heaven to intercede for us just like you can intercede for me in order to build up familial love.

Notice that Moses & Elijah were aware of **future **earthly events in Lk 9:31. This seems to confirm that God allows them to have knowledge that surpasses the bounds of us puny mortals on earth.

Any friend of God is a friend of mine.

That’s tiny, I think you need to make it larger I don’t think Allan will be able to read the small fonts.

 

[Allan1972]

I thought it was talking about the holy spirit. it was talking about the church.

drbo.org/catechism.htm#lesson6

Here is that scripture where Saul went to talk to samuel.
1 samuel 28:7 he went to a woman that could call spirits from the dead. samuel was dead, but saul wanted to talk to him.

so if you are praying to mary or asking her something, that might be waht you’re trying to do.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I thought it was talking about the holy spirit. it was talking about the church.

drbo.org/catechism.htm#lesson6

Here is that scripture where Saul went to talk to samuel.
1 samuel 28:7 he went to a woman that could call spirits from the dead. samuel was dead, but saul wanted to talk to him.

so if you are praying to mary or asking her something, that might be waht you’re trying to do.

It was talking about the Church. We call the Church she because in the Books of Revelation, the Church is symbolically view as the Bride of Christ.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Here is that scripture where Saul went to talk to Samuel.
1 Samuel 28:7 he went to a woman that could call spirits from the dead. Samuel was dead, but Saul wanted to talk to him.

so if you are praying to Mary or asking her something, that might be what you’re trying to do.

We Catholics don’t believe she is dead. We believed she was assumed body and soul into heaven by Jesus.

Second, we ask her to pray for us, or ask for petition for our behalf to the King, Jesus.

It’s not like calling the spirits of the dead which is called divination. The CCC condemns the divination.

Divination and magic

2115 God can reveal the future to his prophets or to other saints. Still, a sound Christian attitude consists in putting oneself confidently into the hands of Providence for whatever concerns the future, and giving up all unhealthy curiosity about it. Improvidence, however, can constitute a lack of responsibility.

2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future.[48] Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.

2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity.

 

[lak611]

Here is that scripture where Saul went to talk to samuel.
1 samuel 28:7 he went to a woman that could call spirits from the dead. samuel was dead, but saul wanted to talk to him.

so if you are praying to mary or asking her something, that might be waht you’re trying to do.

Saul did not pray to a Saint in heaven. He went to visit a “woman that hath a divining spirit at Endor.” This is a sin. This would be like consulting a fortune teller or playing with an Ouija board.

 

[Allan1972]

Even if Mary already was in heaven. why would you pray to her when you have access to the Father, through Jesus Chris? The bible says that. Just pray to God yourself.

 

[Church_Militant]

I thought it was talking about the holy spirit. it was talking about the church.

drbo.org/catechism.htm#lesson6

Here is that scripture where Saul went to talk to samuel.
1 samuel 28:7 he went to a woman that could call spirits from the dead. samuel was dead, but saul wanted to talk to him.

so if you are praying to mary or asking her something, that might be waht you’re trying to do.It’s not necromancy dude, you need to understand the Communion of Saints.

If our dead brothers and sisters are not aware of us then why does Hebrews 12:1 say that we are surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses in our race for the Kingdomof God?

Ever seen a race?
Did the “witnesses” (fans) just sit there?
Do you think that the rest of the body of Christ in Heaven, would do less for us as they witness our race for eternity?

Romans 8:38: For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
39: nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Pax tecum,

 

[Tom]

Allan, we may at times seem to be “slamming” you, please don’t feel we’re belittling you. We are all simply learning. God gives us each other to learn from. Where two are more are gathered in His name He is here. Pray the Holy Spirit will help you along your journey. You are our brother, we are not enemies.
One thing I have learned over the 55+ years of life is that, without exception, the teachings of the Catholic Church are true. Not necessarily what you’ve heard the teachings are, but what they really are. I’m not asking you to convert, simply learn why and understand why.
May the peace and love of our Lord, Jesus the Christ, be with you always.

 

[aspawloski4th]

I don’t see it anywhere. And if it’s not in the bible, its false doctrine. In the Bible, there is no mention of Pope, Bishop, or Mass, or most of things that Catholics talk about. Who was greater? Jesus or Peter. Who’s greater Jesus or the Pope? Who’s greater Jesus or Mary? Even Paul said for people to stop following Peter, Paul, or John, but to follow Jesus. Jesus didn’t say anything about Peter being the foundation of the Catholic Church, but the rock of God’s Church. I challenge Catholics to think about why they believe what they believe and try to back it up with the King James Version of the Bible. Everything else is just false doctrine or heresy.

hello my lost freind, first before about 290 ad there was oficial list of books considered to be sacred scritpure, and it wasnt until st gerome around 400 ad compiled it in to one translation called the vulgate there wasnt a bible. the apostles never intended there to be a bible, you were supposed to get your church teaching from your church leaders. Catholism needs not be in the bible to be correct , because not everything is in the bible. bible stands for basic information before leaving earth, NOT all information before leaving earth.

 

[Allan1972]

If you know that the church is the bride, then what does mother have to with it. I think what it means is you can’t let go of this stuff about Mary being the mother of God, which she isn’t. She was the mother of Jesus. What scripture talks about the church being the Mother and nurturing people? The saints of God is the church? How can the church nurture itself?

 

[Church_Militant]

Even if Mary already was in heaven. why would you pray to her when you have access to the Father, through Jesus Chris? The bible says that. Just pray to God yourself.

So you never ask anyone else to pray for you?

When you “got saved”, did anyone else pray along with and for you? By your thinking that was wrong since all you needed was to pray for yourself.

Yet what does the Word of God say? I desire therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men: (1st Timothy 2:1)

The saints pray in Heaven:
Revelation 5:8 And when he had opened the book, the four living creatures, and the four and twenty ancients fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints:

Revelation 8:3 And another angel came, and stood before the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given to him much incense, that he should offer of the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar, which is before the throne of God. 4 And the smoke of the incense of the prayers of the saints ascended up before God from the hand of the angel.
Pax tecum,

 

[Allan1972]

Saul did not pray to a Saint in heaven. He went to visit a “woman that hath a divining spirit at Endor.” This is a sin. This would be like consulting a fortune teller or playing with an Ouija board.

I didn’t mean saul was praying. i was talking about the woman. and i don’t know how she did it. no there is no reason in picking apart everything someone says.

 

[Redbandito]

Mannyfit75
Senior Member

you just said something about asking mary to pray for you. Mary is dead. did you know that. there is a place in the bible, where saul or somebody went to somebody to call a person from the dead. I I haven’t found yet, but I remember reading one time. that’s what that sounds like. how can you ask a dead person something?

Mary, is in fact, NOT dead. In fact, she is very much alive in Heaven. All those who will ultimately dwell in Heaven, will live, not die after this life. So while their bodies may be dead, their souls are united to God. This is the fulfillment of life.

Furthermore, it could be argued that Mary never did actually physically die, and dwells bodily in Heaven (Rev 11-12).

 

[Mannyfit75]

If you know that the church is the bride, then what does mother have to with it. I think what it means is you can’t let go of this stuff about Mary being the mother of God, which she isn’t.

The Greek word for Mother of God is Theotokos. It was first used in the Council of Ephesus.

Nestorius

Nestorius (c. 386–c. 451) was a pupil of Theodore of Mopsuestia in Antioch in Syria and later became Patriarch of Constantinople. He taught that the human and divine aspects of Christ were distinct natures, not unified. He preached against the use of the title Mother of God (Theotokos) for the Virgin Mary and would only call her Mother of Christ (Christotokos). He also argued that God could not suffer on the cross, as he is omnipotent. Therefore, the human part of Christ died on the cross, but not the divine.

His opponents accused him of dividing Christ into two persons: they claimed that proposing that God the Word did not suffer and die on the cross, while Jesus the man did, or that God the Word was omniscient, while Jesus the man had limited knowledge, implied two separate persons with separate experiences.

Nestorius responded that he believed that Christ was indeed one person (Greek: prosopon). Opposed by Cyril of Alexandria, Nestorius was condemned at the Council of Ephesus in 431.

The Council held that Christ is one person, and that the Virgin Mary is the mother of God. The condemning pronouncement of the Council resulted in the Nestorian schism and the separation of the Assyrian Church of the East from the Byzantine Church.[1] However, even Ephesus could not settle the issue, and the Byzantine Church was soon split again over the question of whether Christ had one or two natures, leading to the Chalcedonian schism.

So we rightly call her Mother of God, because she is the Mother of Jesus who is God, the Second Person of the Trinity. She is not the mother of the Father or the Holy Spirit.

She was the mother of Jesus. What scripture talks about the church being the Mother and nurturing people? The saints of God is the church? How can the church nurture itself?

She is the Mother of Jesus just as Scripture says it is. The Church as being the mother is refer to that the Church is the Spiritual Mother of all Christians.

CCC

1163 “Holy Mother Church believes that she should celebrate the saving work of her divine Spouse (Jesus Christ) in a sacred commemoration on certain days throughout the course of the year. Once each week, on the day which she has called the Lord’s Day, she keeps the memory of the Lord’s resurrection. She also celebrates it once every year, together with his blessed Passion, at Easter, that most solemn of all feasts. In the course of the year, moreover, she unfolds the whole mystery of Christ. . . . Thus recalling the mysteries of the redemption, she opens up to the faithful the riches of her Lord’s powers and merits, so that these are in some way made present in every age; the faithful lay hold of them and are filled with saving grace.”

The Church provides believers a place to worship, and the Catholic Church has the sacraments which nurtures the believers.

 

[Redbandito]

Even if Mary already was in heaven. why would you pray to her when you have access to the Father, through Jesus Chris? The bible says that. Just pray to God yourself.

In that case, you can’t ever ask anyone to pray for you again. You must go to God yourself. Your parents, family and friends are forbidden to pray for you, because you can go to God directly. Does that make any sense?

 

[Allan1972]

Another thing. If mary is in heaven, why isn’t Samuel. Because that woman had to call Samuel from the dead.
This is my last post for the night.

 

[Redbandito]

If you know that the church is the bride, then what does mother have to with it. I think what it means is you can’t let go of this stuff about Mary being the mother of God, which she isn’t. She was the mother of Jesus. What scripture talks about the church being the Mother and nurturing people? The saints of God is the church? How can the church nurture itself?

So Mary is the mother of Jesus, but not the mother of God? Then you must not believe Jesus is God. That is the only logical conclusion. Either Jesus is God, and thus Mary IS the Mother of God, or Jesus is not God.

 

[Redbandito]

Another thing. If mary is in heaven, why isn’t Samuel. Because that woman had to call Samuel from the dead.
This is my last post for the night.

Jesus had not “went and preached to the spirits in prison” (1 Pet 3:19) yet.

 

[Allan1972]

In that case, you can’t ever ask anyone to pray for you again. You must go to God yourself. Your parents, family and friends are forbidden to pray for you, because you can go to God directly. Does that make any sense?

i thought i was through. but i have just one thing to say to you. talking to you is just like talking to an atheist or homosexual. Its pointless. you just want to argue. the point is stop asking or trying to talk to mary.

 

[Redbandito]

i thought i was through. but i have just one thing to say to you. talking to you is just like talking to an atheist or homosexual. Its pointless. you just want to argue. the point is stop asking or trying to talk to mary.

Well that was really Christian of you. I don’t think that is the point at all. Why is it that you get to come on here and present your perspective but I am not allowed to respond? And when I do respond, you compare me to an atheist or homosexual. Man, what Christian charity! And for the record, I will not stop talking to Mary, my Mother. In fact, I am even going to ask her to pray for you. God bless you Allan. I am saddened that you felt the need to attack me and my character rather than carry on a dialogue. I certainly haven’t done so to you. However, I forgive you. For Christ says, “Forgive, and you will be forgiven” (Lk 6:37).