Where is the Ark?

  • Thread starter Thread starter eggsbenedictine
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
There is a relief statuary that depicts the Romans carrying the Ark of the covenant away to Rome when the destroyed the Jerusalem temple.

All joking aside and Ethiopians as well, I have a strong suspicion that the Romans melted the ark and added the gold to the Imperial treasury.
If you’re referring to the Arch of Titus, no, that doesn’t show the Ark of the Covenant. I mean, Herod’s Temple did not contain the Ark anyways.

 
KimG901 Which Ark are your referring to?

Posters are confused. Some are saying it’s in Turkey lodged in a large hill which is where the Ark of Noah fame is rumoured to be.

Others are saying Ethiopia where the Ark of the Covenant fame is rumoured to be protected by the Ethiopian Orthodox Church.
LOL. Now i’m confused! I was referring to the Ark of the Covenant that was carried by Moses and the Israelites. But like I said, it is where it is. When God wills it, we will know its resting place 🙂
 
I know that the Ethopian Orthodox Tawahedo Church claims to have it, just curious if there has ever been any actual evidence supporting this claim. Does anyone actually get to see it or have they?
I think off hand Jeremiah 43. The people of Judah went down to the Lower part of Egypt. While many turned to idolatry (Jeremiah 44) there was at least a remnant of the Jews who kept faithful (Ethiopian eunuch who was probably Jewish).

They had constructed a temple with all the ornaments and a replica ark of the covenant. This is probably the one in Ethiopia.
 
I think off hand Jeremiah 43. The people of Judah went down to the Lower part of Egypt. While many turned to idolatry (Jeremiah 44) there was at least a remnant of the Jews who kept faithful (Ethiopian eunuch who was probably Jewish).

They had constructed a temple with all the ornaments and a replica ark of the covenant. This is probably the one in Ethiopia.
Not everyone may know this, but there was in fact a Jewish temple at Elephantine built by the Jewish community there. We don’t know however if they did have a replica Ark.
 
The written Word of God says it’s been hidden. Nothing in Egypt…nor under a temple.

[BIBLEDRB]2 Maccabees 2:4-8[/BIBLEDRB]
This ^ 🙂 Jeremiah was a Levite and only peeps from the tribe of Levi were allowed to carry it. Which begs a couple of questions though.

How was Jeremiah able to carry the heavy Ark all by himself?
How comes that Usa died when he tried to get the Ark back on the wagon, while the Philistines could transport it all the way to their home?
 
This ^ 🙂 Jeremiah was a Levite and only peeps from the tribe of Levi were allowed to carry it. Which begs a couple of questions though.

How was Jeremiah able to carry the heavy Ark all by himself?
How comes that Usa died when he tried to get the Ark back on the wagon, while the Philistines could transport it all the way to their home?
Hi 504Katrin, two questions. Has Jewish tradition rejected the work of Jeremiah? Have the Jews rejected anyone else I should know about?
 
Hi 504Katrin, two questions. Has Jewish tradition rejected the work of Jeremiah? Have the Jews rejected anyone else I should know about?
Jeremiah is part of our prayer service so I can’t see why you say that he had been kindof rejected by our tradition? You mean he was rejected back in the day when he had asked everyone to repent and people didn’t want to listen?

But Darryl B, you better ask someone else as I don’t know much.
 
True. We do not know whether there was a replica ark built, however if you are building a replica temple you are bound to want to replicate the entire thing, otherwise it cannot operate according to specification. And coincidentally there is an ark that made its way to Ethiopia.
The Temple at Jerusalem did not have any Ark in it after the Exile.
 
Some parts of my town experienced very unusual severe flooding last weekend that completely submerged cars and when I opened this thread I thought you were talking about the ark of Noach’s Covenant.
 
Nope, to clear things up I mean the Old Testament Ark of the Covenant.
 
WAY suspicious!!!
If this Ark exists, the people who have it could clear up a LOT of misunderstanding about religion in this world if they show it.
It would be almost…insane…not to show it. Or a ploy to keep people from beleiving in God and the bible.
If one wanted to make a believer out of everyone, that would be one of the ways; show it.
So to hide it…again, crazy.

These people cannot have have it all this time and keep it hidden.

If one or two clergy have seen it, then they must speak out and tell people.

.
"7 And when Jeremias perceived it, he blamed them, saying: **The place shall be unknown, till God gather together the congregation of the people, and receive them to mercy.

8 And then the Lord will shew these things, and the majesty of the Lord shall appear, and there shall be a cloud as it was also shewed to Moses, and he shewed it when Solomon prayed that the place might be sanctified to the great God.**

God has gathered together the congregation of the people and has recieved us to His mercy, God has proved these when the cloud appeared at Jesus baptism and spoke from heaven witnessed by the Holy Spirit which rested upon Jesus in the form of a dove. God has rested His Mercy on Jesus to which God recieves us to His mercy through Christ.

We have confirmation at the Transfiguration when Moses and Elijah appeared speaking with Jesus and God revealed His majesty and a cloud appeared and announced to the disciples “Listen to Him” when Moses and Elijah disappeared.

God’s mercy is revealed in and through the crucifixion (sacrifice) of the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.

Where is the ark? John see’s it existing in eternity, when God revealed His greatest Mercy and full of Grace to allow a Virgin Woman to “Ark” the Word of God made flesh.

Revelations 11: 19-12;1-2a Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant could be seen in the temple…A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with sun, with moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. She was with child…

The gold of the old Ark of the covenant was made of acacia wood which reflects Jesus taken on our humanity through the virgin Mary, the gold reflects Jesus divinity and Kingship, These the virgin Mary possessed them in her womb as Ark of the New Covenant of Mercy and Grace when Word of God is no longer written on stone tablets, but the Word of God is made flesh arked in the womb of the virgin Woman (Gen.3:15) Mary who is blessed among woman.

See God makes all things new, while the old is close to disappearing.
 
Jeremiah is part of our prayer service so I can’t see why you say that he had been kindof rejected by our tradition? You mean he was rejected back in the day when he had asked everyone to repent and people didn’t want to listen?

But Darryl B, you better ask someone else as I don’t know much.
Sorry 504Karin, I mean has Jewish tradition rejected the understanding that the ark was hidden by Jeremiah? Do they have a different understanding of what happened to the ark?
 
I know that the Ethopian Orthodox Tawahedo Church claims to have it, just curious if there has ever been any actual evidence supporting this claim. Does anyone actually get to see it or have they?
Noah’s Ark is kept under Muslim lock & key. I met a Catholic who touched it! I think he said it was in Iran? Just gave me chills to hear him speak about it. It’s not available for the public to see. This incredibly lucky Catholic was working as security for someone who received clearance and that is how he managed to get such an amazing honor to see & touch it.

The Old Testament Ark of the Covenant is kept in Africa under Ethiopian Orthodox lock & key. The monks have seen it, but it’s not available for the public to see. I don’t think Anyone can touch it, not even the monks.

The New Testament Ark of the Covenant is the Theotokos and she was taken bodily by Jesus after her dormition.
 
I know that the Ethopian Orthodox Tawahedo Church claims to have it, just curious if there has ever been any actual evidence supporting this claim. Does anyone actually get to see it or have they?
Noah’s Ark is kept under Muslim lock & key. I met a Catholic who touched it! I think he said it was in Iran? Just gave me chills to hear him speak about it. It’s not available for the public to see. This incredibly lucky Catholic was working as security for someone who received clearance and that is how he managed to get such an amazing honor to see & touch it.

The Ark of the Covenant is kept in Africa under Ethiopian Orthodox lock & key. The monks have seen it, but it’s not available for the public to see. I don’t think Anyone can touch it, not even the monks.
 
The written Word of God says it’s been hidden. Nothing in Egypt…nor under a temple.

[BIBLEDRB]2 Maccabees 2:4-8[/BIBLEDRB]
Concerning that passage, I’ll just say that the context in which this story appears is a private letter (2 Maccabees 1:10-2:18), where it is attributed ambiguously to “the records.” I don’t personally believe the story is ‘factual’; for one the story appears a few centuries after Jeremiah lived, and it (kinda suspiciously) addresses a contemporary issue: whether the new Temple is really legit because there is no Ark in it. The author of the letter answers to this, no you shouldn’t worry about it, the Ark still survives - it is only hidden. God will reveal it when He “gathers his people together again and shows his mercy.” As the OCE article on the Ark said:

According to many commentators, the letter from which the above-cited lines are supposed to have been copied cannot be regarded as possessing Divine authority; for, as a rule, a citation remains in the Bible what it was outside of the inspired writing; the impossibility of dating the original document makes it very difficult to pass a judgment on its historical reliability. At any rate the tradition which it embodies, going back at least as far as two centuries before the Christian era, cannot be discarded on mere a priori arguments.

There’s also the fact that while the author presents it as common knowledge (the letter claims that it was in “the records,” after all) one would expect the matter being settled with “Oh, Jeremiah hid it somewhere in Mount Nebo.” On the contrary, there was a huge speculation among the Jews themselves as to where the Ark have gone: you have stories about it being stashed somewhere within the hidden bowels of the Temple or it being taken to Babylon or King Josiah hiding it. Admittedly these other stories are late, but IMHO it may show us one thing: the Jeremiah story may have been one of different traditions floating around.

The only other early witness we have of the Jeremiah tradition is a mid-2nd century BC historian called Eupolemus (cited by Eusebius in* Praeparatio Evangelica* 9.39.2-5 via the Hellenistic historian Alexander Polyhistor), who relates that Jeremiah took the Ark and the tablets, but with no indication whether he hid them. Contra 2 Maccabees, it is stated here that only the Ark was retained: all the other furniture in the Temple were sent to Babylon.

‘When Nebuchadnezzar, king of the Babylonians, had heard of the predictions of Jeremiah, he summoned Astibares, the king of the Medes, to join him in an expedition. And having taken with him Babylonians and Medes, and collected a hundred and eighty thousand infantry and a hundred and twenty thousand cavalry, and ten thousand chariots, he first subdued Samaria, and Galilee, and Scythopolis, and the Jews who lived in the region of Gilead; and afterwards took Jerusalem, and made Jonachim, the king of the Jews, a prisoner. And the gold that was in the temple, and the silver and brass, they chose out and sent to Babylon, except the Ark and the tables that were in it: but this Jeremiah retained.’

It has in fact been suggested that the author of the letter got the story from Eupolemus.
 
We also have yet another version of the story in the 2nd-century Paralipomena of Jeremiah aka 4 Baruch (3.6-20), which is canonical only in the Ethiopian Church (as part of the Rest of the Words of Baruch).

Then Jeremiah spoke, saying: “I beg you, Lord, bid me to speak in your presence.”
And the Lord said: “Speak, my chosen one Jeremiah.”
And Jeremiah said: “Behold, Lord, now we know that you are delivering the city into the hands of its enemies, and they will take the people away to Babylon. What do you want me to do with the holy vessels of the temple service?”
And the Lord said to him: “Take them and consign them to the earth, saying: 'Hear, Earth, the voice of your creator who formed you in the abundance of waters, who sealed you with seven seals for seven epochs, and after this you will receive your ornaments (?) – Guard the vessels of the temple service until the gathering of the beloved.”
And Jeremiah spoke, saying: “I beseech you, Lord, show me what I should do for Abimelech the Ethiopian, for he has done many kindnesses to your servant Jeremiah. For he pulled me out of the miry pit; and I do not wish that he should see the destruction and desolation of this city, but that you should be merciful to him and that he should not be grieved.”
And the Lord said to Jeremiah: “Send him to the vineyard of Agrippa, and I will hide him in the shadow of the mountain until I cause the people to return to the city. And you, Jeremiah, go with your people into Babylon and stay with them, preaching to them, until I cause them to return to the city. But leave Baruch here until I speak with him.”
When he had said these things, the Lord ascended from Jeremiah into heaven. But Jeremiah and Baruch entered the holy place, and taking the vessels of the temple service, they consigned them to the earth as the Lord had told them. And immediately the earth swallowed them. And they both sat down and wept.

===

Then Jeremiah spoke, saying: “I beg you, Lord, bid me to speak in your presence.”
And the Lord said: “Speak.”
And Jeremiah said: “Behold, Lord, we know that you are delivering the city into the hands of its enemies, and your people depart for Babylon. What then will we do with your holy vessels?”
And God said: “Consign them to the earth, saying: ‘Hear, earth, the voice of your creator, who founded you upon the waters, who sealed you with seven seals for seven epochs, and
after this you will receive your ornaments. Guard the vessels of the temple service until the gathering of the beloved.’”
And Jeremiah spoke again, saying: “I beseech you, Lord, what should I do for Abimelech the Ethiopian, for he has done many kindnesses to your servant? For he drew me up out of the miry pit where they threw me, and I do not wish that he should see the destruction and spoiling of the city because he is little-souled.”
And the Lord said to Jeremiah: “Send him to the vineyard of Agrippa, and I will hide him in the shadow of the mountain until the people are about to return from the captivity. And you, Jeremiah, go with your people into Babylon and stay with them, preaching to them, until I cause them to return. But leave Baruch here.”
Then they went into the temple, and taking the vessels of the temple service, they consigned them to the earth as the Lord had told them.

In this version, Jeremiah and Baruch consign “the vessels of the temple service” not into a mountain, but into the earth, where - like the version in 2 Maccabees - they are to remain “until the gathering of the beloved.”
 
Yet another version can be found in another late work known as The Lives of the Prophets (dated variously from the 1st century or even later than that), which had come down to us in a heavily-edited Christian version:

This prophet, before the destruction of the temple, took possession of the ark of the law and the things within it, and caused them to be swallowed up in a rocky cliff, and he said to those who were present: “The Lord departed from Sinai into heaven, and he will again come with might; and this shall be for you the sign of his appearance, when all the Gentiles worship a piece of wood.”

He said also: “No one shall bring forth this ark but Aaron, and the tables within it no one of the priests or prophets shall unfold but Moses the elect of God.” And in the resurrection the ark will rise first, and come forth from the rock, and will be placed on Mount Sinai; and all the saints will be assembled to it there, awaiting the Lord and fleeing from the enemy wishing to destroy them.

He sealed in the rock with his finger the name of God, and the writing was as though carved with iron. A cloud then covered the name; and no one knows the place, nor can the writing be read, to the present day and even to the end. The rock is in the wilderness where the ark was at first, between the two mountains on which Moses and Aaron are buried, and by night there is a cloud as it were of fire, according to the primal ordinance that the glory of God should never cease from his law. And God gave to Jeremiah the favor of completing this wonder, so that he might be the associate of Moses, and they are together to this day.

Here Jeremiah makes the Ark and the tablets get swallowed by a rock in the wilderness, in a mysterious spot between Mount Hor (Aaron’s burial-place) and Mount Nebo (where Moses is buried). The Ark and the tablets (no mention of the other furniture, in agreement with Eupolemus) are supposed to surface again “in the resurrection,” when it will be placed on Mount Sinai, brought by Moses and Aaron themselves. You could notice the blatant Christian interpolation here (“and this shall be for you the sign of his appearance, when all the Gentiles worship a piece of wood.”)

Finally, in The Syriac Apocalypse of Baruch, aka 2 Baruch (ca. late 1st-early 2nd century) 6.1-8.3 we read:

And it came to pass on the morrow that, lo! the army of the Chaldees surrounded the city, and at the time of the evening, I, Baruch, left the people, and I went forth and stood by the oak. And I was grieving over Zion, and lamenting over the captivity which had come upon the people. And lo! suddenly a strong spirit raised me, and bore me aloft over the wall of Jerusalem. And I beheld, and lo! four angels standing at the four corners of the city, each of them holding a torch of fire in his hands. **And another angel began to descend from heaven. and said unto them: ‘Hold your lamps, and do not light them till I tell you. For I am first sent to speak a word to the earth, and to place in it what the Lord the Most High has commanded me.’ And I saw him descend into the Holy of Holies, and take from there the veil, and holy ark, and the mercy-seat, and the two tables, and the holy raiment of the priests, and the altar of incense, and the forty-eight precious stones, wherewith the priest was adorned and all the holy vessels of the tabernacle. And he spoke to the earth with a loud voice:

‘Earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the mighty God,
And receive what I commit to you,
And guard them until the last times,
So that, when you are ordered, you may restore them,
So that strangers may not get possession of them.
For the time comes when Jerusalem also will be delivered for a time,
Until it is said, that it is again restored for ever.’

And the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up.**

And after these things I heard that angel saying unto those angels who held the lamps: 'Destroy, therefore, and overthrow its wall to its foundations, lest the enemy should boast and say:

“We have overthrown the wall of Zion,
And we have burnt the place of the mighty God.”’
And they have seized the place where I had been standing before.

Now the angels did as he had commanded them, and when they had broken up the corners of the walls, a voice was heard from the interior of the temple, after the wall had fall saying:

‘Enter, you enemies,
And come, you adversaries;
For he who kept the house has forsaken (it).’

And I, Baruch, departed. And it came to pass after these things that the army of the Chaldees entered and seized the house, and all that was around it. And they led the people away captive and slew some of them, and bound Zedekiah the king, and sent him to the king of Babylon.

Here Jeremiah or Baruch isn’t directly involved in the hiding of the Ark. Jeremiah is absent, and Baruch only sees a vision of an angel descending from heaven and commanding the earth to swallow up the sacred vessels of the temple. Only after these vessels are hidden can the temple be ransacked.
 
You can see one common trend in all the above traditions: the Ark is saved from destruction by the Babylonians, but it is currently inaccessible since it was hidden - either in a mountain or in a rock or in the depths of the earth.

This thinking can also be found in Pseudo-Philo (aka Book of Biblical Antiquities, ca 1st century or later). There in a dialogue with Kenaz (Caleb’s younger brother and father of Othniel; cf. Joshua 15:17; Judges 1:13; 3:9-11) God says that He Himself will take the precious stones and the tablets from the temple and store them “in the place whence they were brought forth in the beginning” up until He “[visits] the dwellers upon earth.”

And God said to Cenez: “Take these stones and put them in the ark of the covenant of the Lord with the tables of the covenant which I gave unto Moses in Oreb, and they shall be there with them until Jahel arise to build an house in my name, and then he shall set them before me upon the two cherubim, and they shall be in my sight for a memorial of the house of Israel. And it shall be when the sins of my people are filled up, and their enemies have the mastery over their house, that I will take these stones and the former together with the tables, and lay them up in the place whence they were brought forth in the beginning, and they shall be there until I remember the world, and visit the dwellers upon earth. And then will I take them and many other better than they, from that place which eye hath not seen nor ear heard neither hath it come up into the heart of man, (Isaiah 64:4; 65:16-17) until the like cometh to pass unto the world, and the just shall have no need for the light of the sun nor of the shining of the moon, for the light of the precious stones shall be their light.” (Isaiah 60:19-20)

And Cenez arose and said: “Behold what good things God hath done for men, and because of their sins have they been deprived of them all. And now know I this day that the race of men is weak, and their life shall be accounted as nothing.” And so saying, he took the stones from the place where they were laid, and as he took them there was as it were the light of the sun poured out upon them, and the earth shone with their light. And Cenez put them in the ark of the covenant of the Lord with the tables as it was commanded him, and there they are unto this day.
 
So patrick457. With all that information, what do you think happened to the real ark and for what purpose?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top