where is the historical church founded by Jesus Christ?

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CMatt25 said:
Guan, but if the catechism we have now was not what we had then, how much longer then before the catechism is fully developed so we know for sure what the truth is?
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The Church has always taught the Truth. It is found in the Scripture, the early fathers, previous catechisms, the statements of the Popes posted on this thread, and the modern catechism.

It is up to the faithful to study them, understand them, and pray to conform ourselves to the contents. You did not answer my question. Do you have a problem with the statements of the Popes posted above?

If you answered, please excuse. I am having trouble keeping up on the thread.:o
 
guanophore said:
I certainly do. That does not mean that I do not also confront her when she maligns the Catholic faith, which she does with great regularity. If you watch her posts, you will note that she applauds every anti-Catholic post that is made, and affirms those that promote the non-Catholic position.

This has not been a problem since she changed her affiliation, because being a Protestant here, and engaging in such behavior, does not cause a scandal. 👍
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Guan, you were speaking of Tweety here who I know is part of the historical church. I’m just pleased a “Protestant” by your definition can teach RCIA and serve Him in a CC. I wish more priests were as Tweety’s.
 
adrift said:
No it is Scripture and answered earlier in the thread.
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I answered that. It is pretty flimsy as far as scriptural presentation for perfection and sinlessness.

But what about this consecration thing? When did Mary pledge chastity for her entire life?
 
larkin31 said:
I answered that. It is pretty flimsy as far as scriptural presentation for perfection and sinlessness.

But what about this consecration thing? When did Mary pledge chastity for her entire life?
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Perhaps you missed the posts I was speaking about.
you must have missed post
1379
 
adrift said:
Thank you for the definition. I am sure Tweetymom will appreciate not having to look it up. I never said that Jesus did not ever speak figuratively. I never said you did. But He didn’t always speak figuratively. Agreed. His disciples did not leave Him when He said He was a door, a vine etc. Agreed. But when He said that they would eat His Body they left Him and He did nothing to stop them. Because they misunderstood. Jesus didn’t stop Judas either. That is because they knew His true meaning and it was too hard. Jesus didn’t correct them either because they understood Him. Ro 11:25 ****“For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in”. Blindness of spiritual things.

One difference that I can see between the Ark and Jesus is that they were told not to touch the Ark and we are told to touch “Take and eat” . I am too lazy to look up the passage and quote it directly but the Scripture says you bring down condemnation on you if you receive Communion unworthily. 1 Corinthians 11
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guanophore said:
The Church has always taught the Truth. It is found in the Scripture, the early fathers, previous catechisms, the statements of the Popes posted on this thread, and the modern catechism.

It is up to the faithful to study them, understand them, and pray to conform ourselves to the contents. You did not answer my question. Do you have a problem with the statements of the Popes posted above?

If you answered, please excuse. I am having trouble keeping up on the thread.:o
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Guan, I have still yet to eat today at after 4 EST so am going now. But I can try to answer later if you can kindly direct me to what those Popes said if it is important for you to know if I have a problem with what they said. Just heed warning. If they implied something other than Christians being in the body of Christ, I might have a problem. 😉
 
😦
guanophore said:
I think what you might be referring to is what the Catechism calls “mental reservation”. To the extent that we do not consent with our mind and will with the Teaching of the Church, we are commanded to study, and struggle with ourselves until we can come into conformity. We are to be in a state of “faith, seeking understanding”. We are called upon to be obedient, even if we do not agree, and to pray that we may be conformed to the image of Christ.

For example, if I personally do not see a problem with contraception, as was the case for many years, I am called upon to keep my dissent to myself (avoid publicly maligning the Teaching of the Church) and to work to bring myself through prayer and understanding into communion with the Church on this matter. In the meantime, I am called to be obedient to the Church by not using contraception. This is a Catholic response.

To fail to study,pray, and seek conformity with the Teaching in such a case is to fail in Catholicity. If it is done out of rebellion, then it is protesting.

Does that make sense?
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Yes, to those who are truly open to truth and obedience.:(Peace, Carlan
 
adrift said:
Mary, who was married, asked how could she get pregnant. Now I think she knew how this occurs so the question is strange unless she made a vow of virginity.

Don’t come back that she was engaged because it doesn’t mean the same as it does today. It meant that she had not yet gone to live with her husband.
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I am not arguing anything. I am simply asking for the Biblical evidence that Mary made a life-long vow of virginity.

So far, none. I was certainly never taught this in church. And sure enough, it appears to come from a writing later, outside the cannon. No wonder it is then jettisoned by Protestants as false dogma. Same with transubstantiation: the parts of dogma that have the thinest foundations in scripture tend to be lost when the weight of orthodox authority is broken.
 
larkin31 said:
thanks, I just read this

so, nothing from the Bible?
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Catholics do not go Sola Scriptura. Whoops, you knew that. We are Jesus’ founded Church and He gave us no indication to stick just to the Bible.

But in Luke 1:34 When Mary says, “How can this be, since I have no relations with a man?” and she has already been promised to Joseph, we know that she is hinting she has vowed to remain a virgin her whole life. And it makes sense.
 
guanophore said:
Elvisman, this position is not consistent with Catholic teaching. The mystical Body of Christ is much larger than the visible body, and there are many members of it that are not “visible” in the world, or the Church that is in the world. Only Christ knows those who are His.

All who are validly baptized are joined to the Head, and we are therefore all members one of another.
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Sorry - but you’re wrong - if you’re speaking in general terms.

The Church teaches that the Church is the body of Christ. The Body is made up of those who are part of his true Church - not all divorced factions thereof.

She also teaches that there is no salvation outside the Church. This does not include, however, the invincibly ignorant. Those ignorant of the truth or those who are desiring to be with Christ but are ignorant of the means of grace (CCC 1260) MAY obtain salvation even if they are not members of the Church. In the end - only God knows who is invincibly ignorant.

Ergo - if you are outside of the Church - you are outside of the Body.
 
guanophore said:
What do you think Jesus meant when He told Saul of Tarsus “It is Jesus, whom you are persecuting”?
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David said in Ps 51 to God, ‘against You and only You have I sinned.’ I wonder what Urriah thought about that admission?​

I wonder what Jesus meant when He said, ‘if you do it to the least of these, you do it to Me’?​

If we understand these two I’ve mention, maybe we’ll understand your verse. Matt 25:40
 
guanophore said:
I suppose it is possible. It could just as well be your own inner avoidance of the Teachings, a pastor or teacher who is anti-Catholic, or something else you read or heard.

Satan wants to divide, separate, and destroy. Ultimately, all that separates us from one another serves his purpose.

I agree. I think that, without the attitude of the Bereans, such an exercise will not likely yield a beneficial result.
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Agreed.

However, isn’t there a third possibility to the first statement: that it was God telling me that some teachings of the CC aren’t correct but don’t throw the ‘baby out with the bath water.’​

OR

God may have said, ‘I have called Guan to the church he’s in so mind your own business. I have lead you in a slightly different direction.’
 
larkin31 said:
I am not arguing anything. I am simply asking for the Biblical evidence that Mary made a life-long vow of virginity.

So far, none. I was certainly never taught this in church. And sure enough, it appears to come from a writing later, outside the cannon. No wonder it is then jettisoned by Protestants as false dogma. Same with transubstantiation: the parts of dogma that have the thinest foundations in scripture tend to be lost when the weight of orthodox authority is broken.
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I gave you biblical evidence.
larkin31 said:
thanks, I just read this

so, nothing from the Bible?
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Luke 1:34
Now you make think it thin but it is there in the Bible. I would like tohear your explanation of that scripture.
 
elvisman said:
**Sorry **- but you’re wrong - if you’re speaking in general terms.

The Church teaches that the Church is the body of Christ. The Body is made up of those who are part of his true Church - not all divorced factions thereof.

She also teaches that there is no salvation outside the Church. This does not include, however, the invincibly ignorant. Those ignorant of the truth or those who are desiring to be with Christ but are ignorant of the means of grace (CCC 1260) MAY obtain salvation even if they are not members of the Church. In the end - only God knows who is invincibly ignorant.

Ergo - if you are outside of the Church - you are outside of the Body.
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1 Corinthians chapter 12, elvisman:

***For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, slaves or free persons, and we were all given to drink of one Spirit.

Now the body is not a single part, but many.***
 
adrift said:
An interesting interpretation. So the Church will marry Jesus sometime. Interesting. Could you elaborate a little more and Scripture, not necessary but nice
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The church is not complete yet. In other words the Bride isn’t complete/whole. There is more to be born and saved. Revelation speak of the marriage supper of the Lamb. That, I believe, is a future event.​

BTW, I wouldn’t call it an interpretation but understanding. I’m not smart enough to interpret.
 
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