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MyRdmrLvs
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then why does the Pope refer to us as separated brethren? Do I wrongly asume he means brothers in Christ?
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MyRdmrLvs
Guest
We are absolutely apart of the church Jesus founded, that is a fact regardless of your belief. You can insist that I dont have salvation but you will someday bend a knee with me before our Lord and you better get used to that fact.None of the Protestant churches were founded by God in the 1st century, in Jerusalem on Pentecost, and according to people like yourself, the CC and the EOC were not founded by God in the 1st century, in Jerusalem on Pentecost. So you see, you really did not answer the question. As I said, I know that all believers (regardless of the church) - comprise the Mystical Body, the church(es) to which Jesus is the head and savior; no doubt about that.I am simply asking someone to identify the historical church (original assembly of believers) - of Matthew 16, founded by Jesus Christ (as opposed to a mere man) - in the 1st century, in Jerusalem, on Pentecost?
Thanks…
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MyRdmrLvs
Guest
I believe more Christians have been martyred in the last century than in all other centuries combined. that said Im glad the pope has body guards, there are to many nuts out there and his death would be devastating to many.
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MyRdmrLvs
Guest
Ok history question, when the early church had to settle the question of the Deity of our Lord. did that ask the infallible bishop of Rome to make a ruling on the mater? did they all yield to his decision?
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joe370
Guest
Instead of answering the question, you choose to put words in my mouth that I did not utter.
I said nothing about insisting anything about you. I believe that all protestant church(es) (founded by a man other than God) - comprise the Mystical Body, the Church(es) to which Jesus is the Head and Savior. If you get the chance perhaps you could answer the question? If the catholic church, to which I belong was not founded by Jesus Christ in the 1st century…is not the historical church of Matthew 16, then please help me find the man (or men) - that founded the CC, and when? Well, I guess that’s 2 questions. LOL…Thanks…
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joe370
Guest
Sounds like you are familiar with the history of the CC. Cool…How did the CC settle the question of the Deity of our Lord?
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joe370
Guest
Do you belong to the church to which the Pope belongs, or do you belong to a different church, with separated leadership/flock? I don’t belong to your church, so am I not considered a separated brother from your church? Do you consider me a member of your church, to which Jesus is the Savior?
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MyRdmrLvs
Guest
then you have your answer the historical church has grown and has many body parts that are still one body with Christ as the head. do we always agree on everything? nope some times my mouth wants to eat things that my belly doesnt like. but they are still apart of the same body.Instead of answering the question, you choose to put words in my mouth that I did not utter.
Thanks…
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MyRdmrLvs
Guest
by debate and vote which would have made no sense at all if the Bishop of Rome was infallible and in charge of the entire church. He simply would have decreed it and ended the matter.
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MyRdmrLvs
Guest
I belong to Christ’s Church, I think the Pope also belongs to Christ’s Church, I hope you will jion us!
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rinnie
Guest
How can the Church be invisible if Jesus said You are Peter and on this Rock I will build my Church. If they Church was invivible what was Jesus talking about then.
Why did he tell Peter and the Apostles go out and spread the word and make disciples of all nations if this was something that was to be hidden?
Why did he say in the scripture:
Eph 3:21 To him be glory IN THE CHURCH to all generations for ever and ever.
Here is my very favorite. Mt.18:17 Tell it to THE CHURCH if he refuses to listen even to the CHURCH (sounds to me that as visible as you can get)
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elvisman
Guest
You ARE separated brethren in Christ. I’m not denying that.
However, the key word is "separated" - as in a divorce.**
**
Protestants have chosen to be separated from the Church - the ONLY Church established by Jesus. We pray for the homecoming of ALL to his Church so that the unity he so fervently prayed for in John 17 becomes a reality.**
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elvisman
Guest
Actually - you don’t.I belong to Christ’s Church, I think the Pope also belongs to Christ’s Church, I hope you will jion us!
**You belong to a divorced faction of Christ’s Church. This is why you are referred to as a “separated” brother in Christ. **
We pray for your journey home.
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rinnie
Guest
If you belong to the Pope Church you would be in commumion with Rome. If you are not in communion you are separated with the Popes Church. The RCC.
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AmericanJosiah
Guest
.
Really! That IS news to me. I thought the Orthodox Chuch believed that Christ founded The Orthodox Church - not The Catholic Church. Please find me some authoritative quote from any Oriental Orthodox Church that says that actually, what Christ found is specifically and solely and particularly what is today The Catholic Church.
I disagree.
The church has ALWAYS been described as one, holy, catholic - the communion of saints, the mystical union of all believers.
I’ve NEVER seen ANY historical evidence that The Catholic Church existed in 31 AD.
No, my denomination originated in 1847 as it was incorporated under the laws of the State of Missouri. Our “founder” is generally regarded to be Rev. Dr. C.F.W. Walther (a homely but smart man).
As I posted, the church that Jesus founded is still here. It just has nothing to do with any congregations or denominations - yours, mine or any other.
The same for the other snippets chosen by The Catholic Church from authors chosen by The Catholic Church.
Thank you.
Pax
Really! That IS news to me. I thought the Orthodox Chuch believed that Christ founded The Orthodox Church - not The Catholic Church. Please find me some authoritative quote from any Oriental Orthodox Church that says that actually, what Christ found is specifically and solely and particularly what is today The Catholic Church.
I disagree.
The church has ALWAYS been described as one, holy, catholic - the communion of saints, the mystical union of all believers.
I’ve NEVER seen ANY historical evidence that The Catholic Church existed in 31 AD.
No, my denomination originated in 1847 as it was incorporated under the laws of the State of Missouri. Our “founder” is generally regarded to be Rev. Dr. C.F.W. Walther (a homely but smart man).
As I posted, the church that Jesus founded is still here. It just has nothing to do with any congregations or denominations - yours, mine or any other.
Are you sure he capitolized “church” and “catholic” in that quote? That he is referring to the legal moniker of a specific, particular, individual, institutional denomination that today is incorporated under that name? Or, has someone “fudged” on the grammar in order to imply that a common, popular adjective of the time was instead the legal moniker of a institution. See, because if you don’t capitolize those words, Ignatius is saying what I said. Where Jesus Christ is present, there is the catholic church. Yes, his point here is the need for a bishop (and I ENTIRELY agree with him) but this says nothing about The Catholic Church - that specific, particular, institutional, intracongregational denomination - being founded by Jesus. Much less that it is infallible/unaccountable.
The same for the other snippets chosen by The Catholic Church from authors chosen by The Catholic Church.
Thank you.
Pax
- Josiah
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elvisman
Guest
Well - you’re right about ONE thing regarding Christ’s Church:
"It has nothing to do with any congregations or denominations."
It is the one, holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church that he established - not a denomination. Denominations came centuries later with the Protestant Revolt.
Every other sect - including yours, which was founded over 1800 years later - is simply a divorced faction from the Catholic Church.
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Dokimas
Guest
[SIGN]Originally Posted by elvisman
This idea of an invisible church is one that is rejected by the Scriptures (Matt. 5:14-16).
This idea of an invisible church is one that is rejected by the Scriptures (Matt. 5:14-16).
Jesus made CLEAR that the church was to be ONE Body (John 17, (Eph. 4:3-6) and not many bodies making up one body. He established ONE Church and ONE Authority (Matt. 16:15-19, 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, 20:21-23) [/SIGN]
It sure is invisible in that you don’t know who is or who is not part of it. Only God know’s who’s saved and who is not.
Paul tells us there is One Body bur MANY members with diferent ‘jobs’.
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wisdomseeker
Guest
One Body is not meant to be different churches with diferent theology. One Church and the members have diferent gifts. the members of the visible Church. the invisible Church in Heaven agrees with the visible Church here. the Mass every day in the CC is the same Mass in Heaven. the Angels and Saints in Heaven join wiht the CC Mass daily. that is what we call the Communion of Saints.
bringyou.to/apologetics/num12.htm
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elvisman
Guest
Huh??
**This post makes no sense whatsoever. **I never declared who is saved and who is not.
Not every member of his Church will be saved. Simply being part of the body of Christ does NOT guarantee you heaven. We must remain steadfast in faith and endure to the end. Scripture is very clear on that.
That being said - you still haven’t illustrated that the Church is invisible. This false idea goes totally against Scripture.
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joe370
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