where is the historical church founded by Jesus Christ?

[tweetymom]

And what church was that tweetymom?

Matthew

The all believers in Christ, doesn’t have a name it is thr church that Jesus started the church of Christian believers

 

[PJM]

Just a point of clairification:

Tweetymon is as she claims: a believer in Jesus [on her terms, her understanding and what [litle] truth she choses to accept]. Nevertheless, she is very sincere in her beliefs.

Originally Posted by joe370
Please, if anyone does come back to this thread I hope you will simply answer the question, directly.

Thanks, Joe…

*** John 10:16***

And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.

Acts.20:28 “Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock,[SNGULAR] in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church [SINGULAR] of God which he obtained with the blood of his own Son. “

Mt. 16: 15 He [Jesus] said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I singular] tell you, you are Peter, [singular] and on this rock singular] I will build my [singular] church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. [singular] 19 I [God singular] will give you [singular] the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you [singular] bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

John Chapter 15: 16 “You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide; so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you. “

Eph. 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, [singular] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; [singular] in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit./I]

Joe, as you suspected: it is the only church founded by Christ, and led by Christ, and protected for 2000 years by Christ; His Catholic Church

 

[Matthew_P_Muehl]

The all believers in Christ, doesn’t have a name it is thr church that Jesus started the church of Christian believers

So your saying it’s The all believers in christ church ? Please let me know where this church is so i can find it… Come on tweetymom… Lets face it you just can’t say catholic church can you. It’s been referred to as the catholic church since 107 A.D. by St. Ignatius!
One day the holy spirit will grab hold of you and set you straight.

Matthew

 

[MuddyRocker]

Just a point of clairification:

Tweetymon is as she claims: a believer in Jesus [on her terms, her understanding and what [litle] truth she choses to accept]. Nevertheless, she is very sincere in her beliefs.

Originally Posted by joe370
Please, if anyone does come back to this thread I hope you will simply answer the question, directly.

And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.

Acts.20:28 “Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock,[SNGULAR] in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church [SINGULAR] of God which he obtained with the blood of his own Son. “

Mt. 16: 15 He [Jesus] said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I singular] tell you, you are Peter, [singular] and on this rock singular] I will build my [singular] church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. [singular] 19 I [God singular] will give you [singular] the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you [singular] bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

John Chapter 15: 16 “You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide; so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you. “

Eph. 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, [singular] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; [singular] in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit./I]

Joe, as you suspected: it is the only church founded by Christ, and led by Christ, and protected for 2000 years by Christ; His Catholic Church

Those are all great verses. And I believe in them. And I belong to that church. But I am not a member of the Catholic Church. Despite what you say, what Rome says, what catholicism says; in all the verses cited above not one of them says anything about Catholicism, Pope, or the Catholic Church. I understand why Catholics believe they are Christ’s Church and I agree with them; they indeed are; but not to the exclusion of others who do not belong to that denomination. That is just wrong! It is no different than the Baptists believing they are the only ones going to heaven. Peter himself said that people will “bend” the scriptures to get what they want out of it and he was correct. It was being done in his time and it is still being done. The CC has always bent the scriptures to prove their primacy and to gain followers. Still, I fault no one who follows. What religion you belong to does not determine where you end up. Only your heart and that you belong to Christ’s church. All man made RELIGIONS bend the scriptures for their own purposes; all the Protestant ones do it and so does the Catholic Church.

[/QUOTE]

 

[joe370]

I know I’m repeating myself, but…

It seems to me, unless one disavows/ignores/denies etc. apostolic succession and the writings of the early church fathers, the church known today as “The Catholic Church” is “the historical church founded by Jesus Christ”.

Poco, thanks for answering the question.

 

[joe370]

You are trying to label just one visible church denomination when in fact Jesus’ church includes people from every denomination.

Hey schaick…

Not true… I believe that all of the very visible, (albeit isolated autonomous churches) - comprise the Mystical Body of Christ, to which Jesus is the Head and Savior! All denominations are included!!! That said, please answer the following question:

Please identify the only historical church that existed in the the 1st, 2nd and 3rd century (long before Constantine legalized Christianity) - founded by Jesus Christ on Pentecost, in Jerusalem, circa AD 33?

Thanks…

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

Even I as a Protestant know that a Pope’s infallibility has nothing to do with whether or not he makes any mistakes, is capable of sin, or is just plain wrong sometimes. It only means that, when it comes to teaching about faith, he is protected and guided by the Holy Spirit, who incidentally is never wrong. The Pope is still a man. He is prone to sin just as I am. However, the authority passed on from generation to generation has nothing to do with the fallen nature of the man. Peter himself sinned. Although, I personally do not believe that Peter was the first Pope, or ever even a Bishop. Even Judas’ authority was passed on to the one chosen to replace him.

Jesus said we would know them by their fruit, therefore I see no reason these men spoke for God or had the authority to pass anything on.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

Remember the truth hurts if the wrong person is asking the question.LOL I love your post, some people just can not take the truth

But if we at least try to speak the truth in love, it might hurt less.

 

[joe370]

Thank You.

Dok, I believe that all of the very visible, albeit isolated autonomous churches comprise the Mystical Body of Christ, to which Jesus is the Head and Savior! All denominations are included!!! That said, please answer the following question:

Please identify the only historical church that existed in the the 1st, 2nd and 3rd century (long before Constantine) - founded by Jesus Christ on Pentecost, in Jerusalem, circa AD 33?

Thanks…

 

[PJM]

=MuddyRocker;6342382]

Just a point of clairification:

Tweetymon is as she claims: a believer in Jesus [on her terms, her understanding and what [litle] truth she choses to accept]. Nevertheless, she is very sincere in her beliefs.

So Joe, if you didn’t want to know, why bother asking?

They also don’t reference Luther, Calvin, Smith, salvation by faith alone, Solla Scriptura, or your church… and your point is

Love and prayers friend,

You may wish to keep in mind that God will judge you on what He allows you to know; not what YOU choose to accept

[/QUOTE]

 

[Bill_Pick]

**Yes - you’re an anti-Catholic.
I just don’t care for people (and neither does God) misrepresenting the Church they claim to belong to – but espousing and agreeing with heretical views about her.

---

Do a search of your posts and tell me if you can find 2 or 3 that agree with the Catholic position (vs. the Protestant) on ANYTHING.

This is what Jesus said "Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. ’

 

[tweetymom]

Just a point of clairification:

Tweetymon is as she claims: a believer in Jesus [on her terms, her understanding and what [litle] truth she choses to accept]. Nevertheless, she is very sincere in her beliefs.

Originally Posted by joe370
Please, if anyone does come back to this thread I hope you will simply answer the question, directly.

And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.

Acts.20:28 “Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock,[SNGULAR] in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church [SINGULAR] of God which he obtained with the blood of his own Son. “

Mt. 16: 15 He [Jesus] said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I singular] tell you, you are Peter, [singular] and on this rock singular] I will build my [singular] church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. [singular] 19 I [God singular] will give you [singular] the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you [singular] bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

John Chapter 15: 16 “You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide; so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you. “

Eph. 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, [singular] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; [singular] in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit./I]

Joe, as you suspected: it is the only church founded by Christ, and led by Christ, and protected for 2000 years by Christ; His Catholic Church

Thank you but I am not a believer in what I choose. I am a believer in Jesus Christ, the whole truth. Lady you do not knw me but hey thanks for you judgement call. I see plenty of fruit here just don’t kno what they are.

[/QUOTE]

 

[tweetymom]

So your saying it’s The all believers in christ church ? Please let me know where this church is so i can find it… Come on tweetymom… Lets face it you just can’t say catholic church can you. It’s been referred to as the catholic church since 107 A.D. by St. Ignatius!
One day the holy spirit will grab hold of you and set you straight.

Matthew

All you gotta do is get on your knees before God and you will find it… And Brother the Holy Spirit is with me everyday, and set me straight over 30 years ago.

 

[tweetymom]

PJM;6342294:

Just a point of clairification:

Tweetymon is as she claims: a believer in Jesus [on her terms, her understanding and what [litle] truth she choses to accept]. Nevertheless, she is very sincere in her beliefs.

Originally Posted by joe370
Please, if anyone does come back to this thread I hope you will simply answer the question, directly.

Wow so true. The name on the door don’t mean a thing if you don’t have Jesus in your heart.

 

[Matthew_P_Muehl]

All you gotta do is get on your knees before God and you will find it… And Brother the Holy Spirit is with me everyday, and set me straight over 30 years ago.

Hey Tweetymom… I’m glad you have faith in christ. But how can one worship christ and reject the church he founded? This makes no sense to me at all.

Matthew

 

[tweetymom]

Hey Tweetymom… I’m glad you have faith in christ. But how can one worship christ and reject the church he founded? This makes no sense to me at all.

Matthew

Easy if you have a problem with the CC being the one church. I don’treject any church,.

 

[schaick]

i am waiting for the answers to my questions.

Which questions?

 

[CatholicGuy22]

I love all my brothers and sisters in christ but i am tired of seeing all this fighting. It is ok to have some debate but we should do it out of love and not pride.

 

[schaick]

Having a missal is one thing and reading the Scriptures along with the Rev is something else altogether.

Answer this for me if you can. When the Rev gives you his/her interpretation of Scripture how do you know if he/she is giving you the proper interpretation? Is he/she infallible? Protestant preachers will never tell you that they are. Ask a Baptist preacher what their belief of infant baptism is, for example, and then ask a Lutheran preacher the same question. I am sure that you will get two different responses on the matter.

Good question.

I have had a disagreement with a Pastor on an interpretation- but it had nothing to do with the way a person reaches salvation -so no matter.

If it is a huge issue then join another church- same with Catholics and why then leave Catholicism. LOL! or they get booted out anyway if the speak up!!

 

[joe370]

Hey rev kevin, you said:

I know what infallible is, can’t be wrong, but only God is infallible. But isn’t your history from infallible men?

Agreed, and God (the holy spirit) - is forever guiding the very fallible leaders of the church founded by Jesus Christ, on Pentecost, in Jerusalem, circa AD 33 into all revealed truth, according to the bible. If the bishop of Rome (any bishop, priest etc. claimed to be infallible, then why do they go to confession? No catholic leader claims to be infallible! The claim is: the holy spirit is guiding these very fallible church leaders, just as the holy spirit guided the very fallible Apostles to pen the very words of you infallible holy bible. Without the HS, the holy bible, written by the fallible apostles, could not be trusted, just as the teachings of the fallible leaders that belong to the church founded by God, could not be trusted. Again, nobody is infallible, well except me of course. LOL…

Isn’t your doctrine or some of it come from history that has been interperated by or made up by so called infallilbe men?

Nobody is infallible. If they made some things up, how do you know, for sure, that they didn’t make up the bible, or parts of it? The CC certainly had the means to include books that were never meant to be in the bible, and exclude books that were meant to be in the bible, if they wanted to - right?

Isn’t your history from infallible traditions?

If it is, then the holy spirit was/is not present in the CC, at any point in history. Tradition was the benchmark by which the books of your bible were either included or excluded, and we can trust that Tradition for the simple fact that the holy spirit was ineffably present in Jesus’ church, safeguarding these Traditions, some of which were committed to papyrus.

See its been told here in this forum that tradition and history can’t be wrong because it was from infallible men or is it certain parts of history and traditions that are infallible?

The CC is comprised of all sinful, fallible people! If the Traditions of Jesus’ church, (safeguarded by the HS) - passed on orally from the very beginning, cannot be trusted, then the Traditions of Jesus’ church, (safeguarded by the HS) - that were eventually committed to writing and passed on to the next generation, in perpetuity, also cannot be trusted. To trust the church founded by God, on Pentecost, in Jerusalem, circa AD 33, comprised of all sinful, fallible leaders, is to, ultimately, trust God.

Many times in history the leaders of Jesus’ church did things that they shouldn’t have done, especially during the whole investiture crisis, but, Jesus gave us a paradigm to follow in Matthew 23, which is: Jesus said* "to the crowds and to his disciples: “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.”* Matthew 23

We are to obey our church leaders and do everything they tell us, but not to do what they do, if what they are doing contradicts what they are teaching. We are not to leave Jesus’ church when things look hopeless for His church. We are to trust that Jesus will do as He promised in spite of the weeds mixed in with the wheat, and we all know what will happens in the end:

“As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.”

Paul also tells us to do the same thing:

Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you. Hebrews 13:17

Jesus promised to safeguard His teachings for all generations, until the end of time; He never promised that His church leaders would all be Christ like. Actually, He said quite the opposite:

Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Instead of the chair of Moses, it is the chair of Peter, but that’s for another thread.

Continued…