where is the historical church founded by Jesus Christ?

[rev_kevin]

Now this I am having a real problem here rev. Now correct me if I am wrong. But are you saying that the Apostles and the successors of the Apostles took advantage of people who could not read? And are you saying that they lied to them about the word of Christ.

And if thats the fact then how can you accept Canon of Scripture then. I mean if they are going to lie once why not lie again? Now can you trust any word that they said are the words of God then?

How can you say you believe the word of God that is written in the bible, but turn around and deny the word of God that is taught oral? You make no sense to me. Did the written word come from Jesus and oral come from Jesus, And why did Jesus tell them to TEACH and PREACH the word? Why did Jesus not just put the gospel in our minds and us not need the Church and the Bible then if God wanted us to have the Holy Spirit lead each one of us on our own. And no offense rev, but why are you needed if this is true. And why is the Church left for us? I mean is God not able to put the word in our head, and have the Holy Spirit lead us each on our own then?

And why have the Church rev? I mean if I believed as you do, I would not go to church. Because why do I need you if the Holy Spirit can lead me without the Church?

And lets talk the Eucharist rev, Can you turn water and bread into the Living Christ. The Catholic CHurch can and does every day. It was given to us by Christ. This is my body and blood that has been given up for you. I understan this teaching is hard, Jesus said it was and many walked away. But I did not. I stayed, I confess my sins, and I ask for forgivness for my sins before I partake in that wonderful gift provided for me.

And you say people believed what they were told because they could not read it for themself. Well its in there rev read it. I read it every sunday. Are you saying I cannot understand or comprehend? Are you saying that the CC the living Christ is taking advantage of me with the truth?

Saying we believe different things, or you do not agree with me will not cut it this time. You said that the Early Fathers of the Church did many horrible things and you must be called on for what you said.

It is no longer diagreements it has turned into blasphemy! ANd you call yourself a Man of God. I must ask again are you truly a Preacher? I am finding this impossible to believe. That a Preacher of any faith would condemn the Early Fathers of the Church.

I’m only saying that anything is possible and I did not say they lied they may had streached the truth. I believe that the Bible is the word of God but it is possible that in translation some things could have been lost. I believe you have a education and are able to reason and see things for yourself. I’m saying that I don’t believe all the things the CC teaches as being the truth. The Euchrist I believe is a symbol of the blood and body of Christ so I don’t need to change it into anything. The Bible was put together by men who put the writtings in some kind of order. LIke I said the Church is Christ not a man named orginization. Did not the CC do horable things to people like putting them to death, the inqusition and so on. Yes I am a preacher and I am only looking at different things that may be plausable.COLOR]

 

[dnu]

Ones personal beliefs are irrelevant. The truth is the truth, regardless of what John Smyth said.

 

[guanophore]

It might have taken nearly 700 posts but I believe we might finally have the right answer! His sheep united in every faith tradition.

I think not, CMatt. Matariel is right, division and separation are not normative. Jesus can join any soul to Himself, wherever He may find them, it the deepest regions of the jungle where no one has heard of Christ (though they are getting less isolated) or in cultures that denounce Christ. It is a mistake to think that all the denominations are “united in faith”. In fact, it is the misunderstandings about the faith that keeps us separated. Jesus revealed all to His Apostles. He founded One Church, and appointed His Apostles to shepherd it. This One Church is the Catholic Church. All who are joined to the Head are members of the One Church. Unity is a long way off, though.

 

[guanophore]

I am not sure what you mean, why separate the verses from the Church of the Apostles?

Check it out:

** The Apostles gave us the the TRUTH through Scriptures with guidance from GOD and the Holy Spirit.

My Church teaches that all Scripture given to us by the Apostles is TRUTH form GOD.

My Church is from the Apostles!**

I am sure you would like to believe this, but in fact, very few of the Apostles actually wrote. They formed the Church, as Jesus intended, and committed the Gospel to those who were ordained. The Scripture cannot be separated from this historic apostolic Church. When you read the early fathers, I think it will become clear to you that the faith tradition to which you belong has been separated from the Apostolic faith.

 

[tweetymom]

No they call me a Christian, as I am a follower of Christ.

:clapping:

 

[tweetymom]

Protestants,

Why will you not just accept Jesus into your heart? Why do you insist on following the traditions of men (i.e. Luther, Calvin, Smyth, Wesley)? Why will you not just trust Jesus and join the one, single Church he founded for us here on earth? Jesus didn’t found the Baptist Church, Smyth did. Jesus didn’t found the Luthern Church, Luther did, Jesus didn’t found the Methodist Church, Wesley did. I don’t understand, if you love Jesus, why do you deny his Church?

Paul said “be of one mind.” He never says be of thousands and thousands of different minds loosely associated by name only.

Come home to the truth, we’d love to have you.

You know what I gave my heart to Jesus a long time ago. I am very happy in the Lord.

 

[dnu]

The Mormons have given their heart to Jesus and are happy too.

Heck, I guess if they’re happy…

 

[rinnie]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

I’m only saying that anything is possible and I did not say they lied they may had streached the truth. I believe that the Bible is the word of God but it is possible that in translation some things could have been lost. I believe you have a education and are able to reason and see things for yourself. I’m saying that I don’t believe all the things the CC teaches as being the truth. The Euchrist I believe is a symbol of the blood and body of Christ so I don’t need to change it into anything. The Bible was put together by men who put the writtings in some kind of order. LIke I said the Church is Christ not a man named orginization. [SIGN]Did not the CC do horable things to people like putting them to death, the inqusition and so on[/SIGN]. Yes I am a preacher and I am only looking at different things that may be plausable.COLOR]

No Sir. THe CC is the living Christ. And Jesus Christ would not do such a horrible thing. Jesus Christ gives Eternal life not death.

 

[Carlan]

It might have taken nearly 700 posts but I believe we might finally have the right answer! His sheep united in every faith tradition.

Wait Matt, you are really not getting what Guan is sayingPeace, Carlan

 

[dnu]

The Church is the Bride of Christ. How many brides does Jesus need?

 

[Cursilista]

Originally Posted by Cursilista
this is the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard. Jesus taught by oral teachings, the apostles taught by oral teachings. are you saying that what they taught was in error?Jesus not the apostles possible

oh , wait i see, they didnt have the bible so their teaching was wrong.Jesus no the apostles possible

The Bible didnt exist till 400 adThats why the teaching passed down from generation to generation can be flawed

Rev Kevin, just because they may not have been able to read does not eqaute with being dumb.Never said they were dumb just could not figure it our for them selves because they could not read

Where were the Baptist and their teachings before the printing press?

Oh here we go again, we were here first so we’re right. Being first don’t always make you right/

The Apostles gave us the the TRUTH through Scriptures with guidance from GOD and the Holy Spirit.

My Church teaches that all Scripture given to us by the Apostles is TRUTH form GOD.

My Church is from the Apostles!

Rev, which is it , you cant have it both ways, either the apostles had infallible teaching or they didnt. you said earlier that the apostles could be in error on their interpretation, then you say that the apostles gave you the truth about scripture. Seems confusing.

Besides The apostles didnt write the new testament, others did, probably scribes. The apostles retold over and over the stories of the new testament. Those stories when told orally have to be consistent in order for them to be passed on orally to the next generation of bishops and priest. The first books of the NT werent written till mybe 30 to 40 yrs after jesus died.

So how did the books of the bible get written with infalliblle interpretation again?

 

[kempo1]

didnt pilgrims slaughter american indians, protestant clansman kill black folks, etc. every church has had people within their walls do terrible things by using the church or scripture to justify their own twisted views on certain things. but at the same time these churches also contained true christians who love Christ. Jesus had twelve apostles and he selected one wretched one. It is believed he chose judas to be a reminder to us all that as the church went on their would always be some in the Holy church that would be corrupt, but it would not destroy the church he built. There will always be some who will abuse the authority, or position given them in the church, but somehow these perpetrators are always eventually exposed. The C.C. is so big in the world that you will always know their dirty laundry due to the fact that they are watched by every news org. in the world. The churches that scare me are the little less known churches that are hidden and small. I remember about the time the petifile priests were exposed not to far from where i live there was a small local church [part of a good sized denomination] that had been exposed locally in our newspaper for having devil worship going on inside its walls along with child molestings as young as a few months old. The shame of it is no national news coverage, just a small story locally, why? probably because no one really cares about the little less known church. If it would have been in the C.C. the whole world would have known. These things have gone on forever, small church has big scandal and you never here about it.

 

[tweetymom]

The Mormons have given their heart to Jesus and are happy too.

Heck, I guess if they’re happy…

Well heck I suppose they are? Are you?

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

. Most Catholics are woefully unprepared to give an account of the hope that is within. .

I will never forget when I was at a JW kingdom hall and someone asked the crowd of JWS for a show of hands from all who were former Catholics, about 3/4 of the people raised their hands. this made me believe what I had read about Catholics not knowing their Bibles very well. A couple years later I met a Catholic man and his two kids on a train to Seattle, they creamed my daughters and I in Bible trivia, showing me that Some Catholics do infact read the Bible.

 

[rev_kevin]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

No Sir. THe CC is the living Christ. And Jesus Christ would not do such a horrible thing. Jesus Christ gives Eternal life not death.

I believe if you look at history you will see that I’m correct.
The inquistion was a Roman Catholic tribunal for discovery and punishment of heresy, which was marked by the severity of questioning and punishment and lack of rights afforded to the accused. It was instituted by Pope Innocent lll {1198-1216) in Rome. A later pope, Pope Gregory lX established the inquisitution in 1233 to combat the heresy of the Aliqenses.Moving foreward more than 700 Conversos were burned at the stake. Between 1486-1492 467 people were burned at the stake and others were (name removed by moderator)risoned. And established 31,912 were burned at the stake.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

I never said that, please don’t put words into my mouth. The conversation had nothing to do with either good works or rituals, I don’t know where you go that.

I did said that because the Protestant denominations do not have the Sacraments (ordained by Christ) except two (Baptism and Marriage) and because they have separated from the unity of the one sheepfold of Christ, the Catholic Church, they have voluntarily exiled themselves from certain graces, as these were established by the Lord himself to sanctify us.

Is this any wonder? Naturally I should think this, because if not I would not have converted to the Catholic Church and remained a Evangelical Protestant!

We also have communion

 

[rev_kevin]

Rev, which is it , you cant have it both ways, either the apostles had infallible teaching or they didnt. you said earlier that the apostles could be in error on their interpretation, then you say that the apostles gave you the truth about scripture. Seems confusing.I said it could be plausible

Besides The apostles didnt write the new testament, others did, probably scribes. The apostles retold over and over the stories of the new testament. Those stories when told orally have to be consistent in order for them to be passed on orally to the next generation of bishops and priest. The first books of the NT werent written till mybe 30 to 40 yrs after jesus died.So John the apostle, son of Zebedee the brother of James, didn’t write the book of John? didn’t write the book of John. Matthew (Levi) didn’t write his book? Luke didn’t write his book? The apostle John didn’t write Revelation? How do you know when told orally that something didn’t get imbellished, something left out, something put in. You know how when some one tells a story they tend to exagerate, add things to the story, leave things out.

So how did the books of the bible get written with infalliblle interpretation again?

I don’t beleive I said.

 

[CMatt25]

Actually Matt me and guan are from the same flock. We both go by the exact same teaching’s. The Catholic Church is the CC and has the same teaching’s as long as it is in communion with the Pope.

SHe is from a different rite but as she explained there are many rites. But we all have the same Sacraments. etc. We are of one fold. Her Church and mine are different rites but we are in communion with eachother.

Like she said she is no more Catholic then I and I then her. Because we both go by SS and OT. We all have the same teachers.

She is just a little smarter than I in explaining things But between us I do tell her what to say. Just kidding guan you know I love ya!

Oh I knew guan said earlier sheep are in all faiths and I just thought maybe Catholics were coming to the realization we are all one in Christ.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

The Mormons have given their heart to Jesus and are happy too.

Heck, I guess if they’re happy…

this is the forth post of yours that I have clicked on to comment, yet each time I hit the back button with the same conclusion, why bother.

 

[adrift]

I believe if you look at history you will see that I’m correct.
The inquistion was a Roman Catholic tribunal for discovery and punishment of heresy, which was marked by the severity of questioning and punishment and lack of rights afforded to the accused. It was instituted by Pope Innocent lll {1198-1216) in Rome. A later pope, Pope Gregory lX established the inquisitution in 1233 to combat the heresy of the Aliqenses.Moving foreward more than 700 Conversos were burned at the stake. Between 1486-1492 467 people were burned at the stake and others were (name removed by moderator)risoned. And established 31,912 were burned at the stake.

You are partially correct. You err when you speak of the “Inquisition” as if it were one. There were many the most famous was the Spanish Inquisition. People preferred the Inquisition to regular courts because they were treated more fairly. You say the amount was established? By Whom?. My understanding was that the number was greatly exaggerated and the number was less than 300.