where is the historical church founded by Jesus Christ?

[Dokimas]

Exactly why I don’t say someone is a heretic nor judge their soul is in extremely grave jeopardy.

Very good practice on your part. I hope to follow your lead and not judge anyone. God bless you. Thank you for being a good example for all of us.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and breaking down the middle wall of partition, the enmities in his flesh:

15Making void the law of commandments contained in decrees; that he might make the two in himself **into one **new man, making peace;

16And might reconcile both to God in one body by the cross, killing the enmities in himself.

19Now therefore you are no more strangers and foreigners; but **you are fellow citizens **with the saints, and the domestics of God

Rom 12:5 So we being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

i understand that this is written by the Apostle to those in the Church. to those under the authority of teh Apostles. as you know there is only One Church. everyone who came to believe caming into the Church to be tought. there were no protestants.
Just because the Bible is available it does nto mean you can be outside the Church and still claim these teachings just bcause you can read them. Jesus has found One Church.

again this is tought to those inside the Church. protestants are not being tought by the CC. Still these Scriptures does not say that those outside the CC is One with us in Faith. does it?

These are Scriptures that anyone can quote. anyone who can read.

you should read Scriptures about those who leave the Church and what happens to them.

 

[Loboto-Me]

I am somewhat confused about this because I was under the impression that up until the reformation there was only one christian church, but I maybe wrong. So technically Luther was the founder of the protestant faith, so wouldn’t protestants be trying to put their authority over the first christian church and the first christian church is just trying to protect its original teachings that were taught by the apostles? I don’t really understand other viewpoints because first of all God would not separate the original church so I don’t want to hear any of that bull ****.

You’re right! And we hold Tradition just as sacred as Scripture! Tradition seems to be the one casualty that was lost in all of this, leading many men to losing the proper interpretation of the Bible.

John:

23 13 So the word spread among the brothers that that disciple would not die. But Jesus had not told him that he would not die, just “What if I want him to remain until I come? (What concern is it of yours?)” 24 It is this disciple who testifies to these things and has written them, 14 and we know that his testimony is true. 25 There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written

Tradition which was not written, so many things that Jesus did that the Apostles knew about and shared with those whom they made bishops and priests, called sacred traditions by us.

 

[racing59]

Can any one answer my post #928. Thanks
Peace

 

[Dokimas]

you are simply confirming what he wants to hear from you.

Why is it so difficult for you to confirm a fellow Catholic for defending the faith?, God bless and peace to you, Carlan

True faith doesn’t need defending. Jesus is the Author and Finisher of that faith and He is much more than able to sustain it.

 

[lil_flower_luv]

Forgive me if this has been already addressed,but I’m trying to catch up on this thread,and there is so much to sift through. I was told by a RCC priest that there is no Mass in Heaven because there are no Sacraments in Heaven, no need. I read Scott Hahn’s book Lamb Supper which suggest there is Mass in Heaven. Rev. 19 the Wedding Feast of the Lamb suggest there is a Wedding feast in Heaven. What are they feasting on? I find this all very confusing.I’m a slower reader so forgive me for jumping post, this one caught my eye, so I had to ask.
Peace

Hi racing,

The Lamb’s Supper ties the book of Revelation in with the Mystery of the Mass. It describes Mass as “Heaven on Earth.”

You asked, “what are they feasting on”? You would have to get a better Catholic opinion…I don’t want to lead you astray. If, however, you have other questions on Scott Hahn’s book, feel free to ask.

 

[lil_flower_luv]

True faith doesn’t need defending. Jesus is the Author and Finisher of that faith and He is much more than able to sustain it.

Peace to you, D. Can you elaborate on “True faith doesn’t need defending?” Every Christian knows that the Faith needs defending. And you should “not be amazed, brothers, if the world hates you.” (1 John 3:13) for it.

 

[CMatt25]

Very good practice on your part. I hope to follow your lead and not judge anyone. God bless you. Thank you for being a good example for all of us.

Dokimas, I know I have failed at times in charity. But thank you for your kind words. I learn a lot of what it means to be a Christian from your posts. God bless you for the example you provide each of us as well.

 

[CMatt25]

i understand that this is written by the Apostle to those in the Church. again this is tought to those inside the Church./QUOTE]

Rinnie, I’m not sure but the above I think might help you understand what Tweetymom meant when she said some say the Scripture is only for Catholics.

 

[CMatt25]

i understand that this is written by the Apostle to those in the Church.
again this is tought to those inside the Church. protestants are not being tought by the CC.

Rinnie, I am not Tweetymom but I think perhaps this is an example of what she meant when she said some say the Scriptures are only for Catholics.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Forgive me if this has been already addressed,but I’m trying to catch up on this thread,and there is so much to sift through. I was told by a RCC priest that there is no Mass in Heaven because there are no Sacraments in Heaven, no need. I read Scott Hahn’s book Lamb Supper which suggest there is Mass in Heaven. Rev. 19 the Wedding Feast of the Lamb suggest there is a Wedding feast in Heaven. What are they feasting on? I find this all very confusing.I’m a slower reader so forgive me for jumping post, this one caught my eye, so I had to ask.
Peace

i am not expert on this. here is what the Catechism says:
III. THE HOLY SPIRIT AND THE CHURCH IN THE LITURGY

1091 In the liturgy the Holy Spirit is teacher of the faith of the People of God and artisan of “God’s masterpieces,” the sacraments of the New Covenant. The desire and work of the Spirit in the heart of the Church is that we may live from the life of the risen Christ. When the Spirit encounters in us the response of faith which he has aroused in us, he brings about genuine cooperation. Through it, the liturgy becomes the common work of the Holy Spirit and the Church.

1092 In this sacramental dispensation of Christ’s mystery the Holy Spirit acts in the same way as at other times in the economy of salvation: he prepares the Church to encounter her Lord; he recalls and makes Christ manifest to the faith of the assembly. By his transforming power, he makes the mystery of Christ present here and now. Finally the Spirit of communion unites the Church to the life and mission of Christ.

i should not probably call it a Mass, the Mass is a Sacrifice to us Catholic down here on earth, but there is a Worship in Heaven.

here is what father Z says:

“The question might then be, Just what sort of liturgy is that heavenly liturgy in which we participate when we experience the Eucharistic sacrifice of our earthly liturgy? Apparently, some assume incorrectly that there is a heavenly Eucharistic sacrifice of which our earthly Eucharistic sacrifice is a representation.”

Father Z (and Abbot Vonier) answer “Not so”. My mental notes: There is no Eucharistic sacrifice in heaven. … The earthly sacrifice of the Lamb in the liturgy will be succeeded by the heavenly nuptials of the Lamb. … The Lamb was slain on this earth, not in heaven. … The liturgy of heaven is one of consummation rather than one of immolation. … The earthly Christ is immolated, but the heavenly Christ is consummated (two different aspects of the same Christ). … The immolation of the sacrifice is temporal, but the consummation of the sacrifice is eternal. … The altar of Revelation is the altar of incense, not the altar of holocaust. … The heavenly altar is one of consummation rather than an altar of propitiation. … … Finally, the sacrifice of the Mass here on earth is the sacrifice of the Body and Blood of Christ. But Christ is present in heaven in His Glory."

 

[Loboto-Me]

Boy, I’m catholic and have difficulty understanding it all. I have a “simple” mind so what Father Z is saying isn’t computing properly

Oye, I guess it’s more your mental notes that I’m not getting… I don’t know what immolation means etc lol. That’s not disparaging(is that the right word?) what you said, it’s just that I don’t “do” complicated very quickly or easily LOL!

 

[Dokimas]

Of course faith without works is dead.

Sounds like something writen by James, the brother of Jesus.

 

[Carlan]

Can any one answer my post #928. Thanks
Peace

Hello Racing,and welcome, I do not debate however , I do try, with my 2cents worth , to defend the faith when I can the best I can. So I’ll give your post a go. Someone more knowledgeable that I can come on in and do better for y ou I’m sure.

We in Christ’s Church are one in all, That means , Christ the Bridegroom of His Bride the Church( the Body of Christ) the Church Militant on Earth, is in communion with the whole. Church His Kingdom, those on earth and those in heaven, all the Angels and Saints and the Trinity, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. We are all one in Him celebrating the Kingdom, One big ALLELUIA! Best I could do at the moment If you can get a hold of a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, you will have it covered, God bless you in your search, and welcome again, Peace, Carlan

 

[elvisman]

Doesn’t the Church believe other Christians, perhaps imperfect, but still are part of the body of Christ?

**No. **
The Church teaches that they are RELATED to the Body of Chrsit but are separated brethren - self-separated, I might add.

You must remember - the ecclesiatical divorce that is Protestantism (in all of it’s splintered manifestations) happened because of rebellion.

 

[elvisman]

It’s the unkind, condescending, holier than though, I understand it all manner in which you speak to us.

What I’m saying is that if you find evidence offensive, then you really need to be honest.

 

[elvisman]

What protestant scholars are you reading?

**I’ve read R.C Sproul, Norman Geisler, Billy Graham, Hank Hanagraaf to name a few. Not all, but many of them admit the Catholic Church stood alone and ****later **perverted her doctrines. Most say this happened by the 5th Century, although some say it happened in the 4th century.

-Matching some of your doctrines with what the Bible says is my evidence that the CC in not the whole of the church Jesus founded.

Name some of them then.

-The church in general is the church in whole. It includes all true believers. It is not one church like the CC (many of her member are part of the true universal church), but as I’ve said, all true believers.

That’s not what Scripture says.
Matt. 7:15-23** explicitly talks about people who believe but are ****not **faithful. Those who did things in his name and called upon him but were lost.

-Saying you understand exactly what is meant is one thing and actually understanding is quite often another thing. (1 Cor 8:2)​

Thanks for your opinion.

No – I DO understand that I belong to his only Church – his body – not a divorced faction.

 

[Dokimas]

Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and breaking down the middle wall of partition, the enmities in his flesh:

15Making void the law of commandments contained in decrees; that he might make the two in himself **into one **new man, making peace;

16And might reconcile both to God in one body by the cross, killing the enmities in himself.

19Now therefore you are no more strangers and foreigners; but **you are fellow citizens **with the saints, and the domestics of God

Rom 12:5 So we being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

Wonderful verses with interesting implications. Thank you for sharing. God bless.

 

[Dokimas]

Exactly, because the Bible isn’t meant to be interpreted as straight forward. Agreed that when Jesus said to eat His Body and drink His Blood it wasn’t to be taken straight forward. The Church has had to have scholars interpret it properly in order to have a proper understanding of the Bible. Isn’t it interesting that the church scholars you speak of, interpret the Bible favoring their church?

Straightforward interpretation leads to different conclusions as evidenced by the different conclusions in “protestant” denominations. Not true. If it was just straight forward as you think, there’d be but one interpretation.

 

[Dokimas]

I am somewhat confused about this because I was under the impression that up until the reformation there was only one christian church, but I maybe wrong. So technically Luther was the founder of the protestant faith, so wouldn’t protestants be trying to put their authority over the first christian church and the first christian church is just trying to protect its original teachings that were taught by the apostles? I don’t really understand other viewpoints because first of all God would not separate the original church so I don’t want to hear any of that bull ****.

There was but one church and still is. Then Constantine united the church with the Roman gov’t and I’m sure many of the people were part of the church Jesus founded. I’m also sure that there were many that had no connection with that church, the RCC, because the church had spread widely on the contenants of the eastern hemisphere. All those were part of the church Jesus started.