where is the historical church founded by Jesus Christ?

[tweetymom]

Who else has authority to interpret scripture twetty?

Matthew

The Holy Spirit

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

Am I the only one who find conversations like these to be terribly distressing? They make me almost physically ill to read, and hurt so much.

Jesus loves all of us; I’m a Catholic, and he loves me and the way I choose to worship him and read His word. And he loves Protestants and they way they worship him. As a Catholic I believe I am doing what God wants me to do and has wanted from the beggining, but I also believe he sees the beautiful love in the hearts of all those who follow him, be they Catholic, Protestant, Anglican, whathaveyou.

I’m not trying to go against Church teachings regarding the True church, but I just feel…I don’t know. I know the best of intentions is coming from both sides, but just seeing the frustartion in this thread makes me so sad

I was beginning to feel the same way.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

Thank you for responding.

I think my trouble is I’m a very emotional person. I try very very hard to be accepting and loving to everyone, even those who’s beliefs I don’t follow. But with me, when someone speaks things contrary to the word of the Catholic Church, I guess I feel oversensitive and feel like they’re attacking myself and what I believe, even though I know most non Catholic Christians aren’t trying to do this! Many Protestants I’ve met consider Catholicism one of many ways to reach God, but I’ve met my share of those who don’t think the same, and I get such a sick and hurt feeling when I see these sorts of discussions, because I always fear inevitably we’ll see the words, you’re wrong and you’re going to Hell for worshipping like you do, from EITHER side of the debate.

It pains me to see people who will say that to another, no matter what faith they follow, even though I know that’s usually NOT what the purpose of the conversation is!

I…I;m off topic and stressed and rambling, I’m sorry

shondrea, Your Jesus is my Jesus, He is OUR LORD. I wonder if after a couple thousand years at his feet will we try and remember what it was we once debated.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

Listen, do me a big fat favor okay Read what I am going to write, 4 maybe 400 times, whatever it takes to sink in:

Salvation comes from the CC which is the Living Christ. Not the POPE!!! The Pope is put here to teach the word of Christ with his Bishops and Priests. He cannot save you only God can. The only way the Pope can save you is one way. If you listen to the word that is given to him by God. If you obey the word of God and keep his commandments you can be saved. If not there is nothing the Pope, a Bishop, or a Priest can do for you.

You have free will. You either use it and hear what the Pope is commanded by God to say, or you choose to ignore it and go your own way.

If you confess your sin to the Priest, Bishops, or the Pope for that matter they have the right to forgive you with he power that God gave them. Thats the only way. IT is not them personally giving forgiveness it is them exercising the power given to them from Jesus Christ.

Read this scripture:

Luke 10:16 WHOEVER HEARS YOU HEARS ME.

JOHN 14:16, 16, 26 THE HOLY SPIRIT WILL BE WITH YOU ALWAYS TO TEACH AND REMIND YOU OF EVERYTHING.

Tell me MYRD was Jesus talking to you or the Apostles?

Matt 18:18 Jesus gives the APOSTLES THE POWER TO LEGISLATE.
Matt 18:17 He gives them the power to discipline.

Who are YOU to remove this power, and take it upon yourself to take over.

I obey the word of God buddy, I don’t write it, and I don’t twist it to make it what I want. IF you do not hear the words of the Pope and Bishops and Priests that has been given to them at the laying of hands in Holy Orders how in the world would I think you will listen to me. I am only repeating what God said, and so are they:shrug:

I was just asking a question. should I take that as a NO?

 

[guanophore]

Hey man, sometimes I feel the same way. Recently my temper has been so short over the smallest things and is probably coming out in my posts. But i’ve been praying that hopefully I will be able get it down to normal again.

I know this is off topic, but it is Lent, and anyone who is serious about walking right with God, or making sacrifices to grow closer to Him will come under attack. These types of symptoms are consistent with such attacks. One of the Enemies strongest desires is to rob us of our birthright of joy.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

I know that the doctrine of OSAS held by some Protestants is very comforting to some, however, believe also that the sin of presumption is a very powerful tool of the evil one!:yup::bigyikes:God help us all. Carlan

I believe OSAS comes out of Calvanism. and that is the least of the problems with their beliefs.

 

[guanophore]

Christians have the Holy Bible, from the Apostles. What informatin do you have that has been passed down that we don’t have.

Actually, the Holy Bible came from the Catholic Church.

The most important part of Sacred Tradition that was lost when the Scriptures were separated from the Apostolic Teaching is how to understand it’s contents correctly. The two strands of divine revelation were never meant to be separated.

Tell me what truth are Christians missing?

All that was subtracted from what is Catholic to leave you with the part you have.

**What Sacred tradition has been added to by the Catholic Church about Jesus that Christians don’t have?**The only traditions I see being added are about Mary, the Pope, indulgences.

Sacred Tradition cannot be “added”. All Sacred Tradition comes from the Apostles. The Church believes and teaches that public revelation closed with the death of the last Apostle.

 

[guanophore]

I am sorry but Tradition is oral teaching’s and only the CC has them. So the truth that other Church’s are missing is Oral Teaching’s that are passed down Oral to other members of the Church.

The Priests learn these from the Popes and Bishops of the CC. If your Church has them how did they get them?

non-Catholic Christians do adhere to many of the Sacred Traditions. They just don’t realize they are doing it.

True: I don’t think you or I understand exactly what that means. God knows.

Why would Jesus leave us orphaned, not knowing the truth, after He promised He would not?

Why would He expect us to find our way without guidance? What kind of shepherd does that to his sheep?

Are you saying if a person truly has Jesus it’s possible for them not to have all the truth?

Quite definitely.​

• The CC, as I read you and others with your bent, is clear that it is the only proclaimer of all the truth. Again, a self serving statement.

To the extent that the service of the Church is to bring souls to heaven, I suppose letting everyone know that the Truth in fullness is present could be said to be self serving.

It is kinda like Jesus saying “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and no one comes to the Father but by me” is self serving.

 

[guanophore]

*You are taught ***to believe as a child in Christ. After that, you believe it because it’s true. You cannot believe at all without the grace of God.

What you want to believe is that we ALL have the truth - which is moral relativism *(your *truth is good for you and mine is for me).

Jesus set up ONE Church and he left is in charge here on earth - the FINAL authority (Matt. 16:15-19, 18:15-58, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, 20:21-23).
There is only ONE truth - not many and we are ALL to worship as ONE Church, ONE body - not many sects.

For a person who identifies themselves as a “Catholic” in their profile - you certainly do not espouse Catholic beliefs. It’s almost as if you were talking out of both sides of your mouth - much like Tweetymom who is also a moral relativist in denial.

I think Tweety is to be commended for changing her public affiliation. I think this is a sign that she is not in as much denial. It is not fair to fault her because she is Protestant in faith. She is doing the best she can with what little she has.

 

[guanophore]

We all believe that there is one God. We all believe in the Holy Spirit. We all believe Jesus is the Son of God sent here to save us from out sins and to give us eternal life.

Amen!

It is always great to hear when our separated brethren have retained these foundations of the Apostolic Faith.

What does it matter if one worships God one way and another worships him another way, the point is that we are worshiping him as the one and only God.

It matters because it is our duty as His creatures to worship Him as He has directed.

We bicker and bicker about who is the true Chruch, who has been around the longest, etc.

It seems that you are quite resistant to the idea that Jesus founded One Church, and that it was called Catholic. The Church He founded was True, and it has been around the longest because He promised that this would be the case. I wonder what would have to change for you if you accepted these facts?

but we are missing one thing, we all are children of God and to bicker among eachother over silly things don't do any of us any good and I'm sure God is not happy with our actions.

While I agree that “bickering” is not helpful, clarifying the areas where we disagree, and why, is important. I agree that God is not happy with our separations, but having a lack of understanding about them will not heal them.

We all know we will not see eye to eye on everything… Just because we have different ways of worshiping, at least we are worshiping God. Would it be better if we did not worship him like so many in the world do? God is a God for everyone who accepts him.

Yes, I believe that clinging strong to a part of the Truth is better than none at all. however, it does matter about worship. As His creatures, we have an obligation to worship Him as He has directed.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

Okay then tweety why does scripture say this?

acts 1:20:22 Let someone else take over HIS OFFICE, Out of the MEN who have been WITH US the whoe time that the Lord Jesus was living with us, from the time when John was baptising unil the day when he was taken up from us, ONE MUST BE APPOINTED to serve with us as a witness to his resurrection.

Didnt they draw lots? Do Catholics draw lots to choose leaders? Are you going to get mad because I asked a question? if so nevermind

 

[guanophore]

I certainly have not meant to leave the impression that anyone is going to hell for worshiping as they do. And if I have I am truly sorry as I in truth believe the exact opposite. I work I pray to portray our unity in Christ as He is the essential cornerstone of our belief. The rest I don’t sweat so much because far more unites us and I am totally about unity and ecumenicism. God bless and peace.

It is important to rejoice in those areas that we share in common. However, ,unity is achieved by adherance to the Truth. To the extent that any of the members of the Body depart from the Truth, unity is lost. Ecumenism is not served by minimizing these departures.

 

[guanophore]

The bottom line is we none will know until Jesus comes again.

That is what is true for you, Tweety, because you have chosen to reject the Truth that is present where Jesus placed it, in His Church.

I agree with you, when He comes, all will be laid bare, and we will see as He sees.

In the meantime, we can know as much of the Truth as He has chosen to reveal to humanity because He has placed it in His One Body, the Church.

It is a marvel that people would rather persist in not knowing the Truth, and pretending to themselves that it cannot be known. However, as Jesus taught, those to whom much is revealed have much required of them, and those that have received the Truth have a greater obligation to follow it. It is very difficult to undertake the obedience of the faith, so I think it is easier to claim Truth cannot be known than to have to make the sacrifices needed to embrace it.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

Exactly. And that is proof it did not come from God. God would not divide his own kingdom. You cannot blame God for the mistake of Luther.

“these things happened to them as examples for us” What happened when the Israelites were not faithful or when the leaders failed to follow the Lords instructions? they were divided! and yet Gods plan was still served.

 

[guanophore]

The Holy Spirit

Indeed, and we can be quite certain that He will not lead in an opposite direction that He has already led the Church, or reveal something to anyone that is contrary to what has already been revealed. And this is one reason why it is so important to know the history of our faith, and to understand how the early Church understood and practiced the Teachings of the Apostles.

 

[CMatt25]

shondrea, Your Jesus is my Jesus, He is OUR LORD. I wonder if after a couple thousand years at his feet will we try and remember what it was we once debated.

I wonder if we will after just a couple of minutes.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

I think you misunderstood my request. I was asking for the list that distinguishes between essential and non-essential doctrines.

I am sure we agree on most of them.

I am finding this thread to be rather exhausting. I am not sure I can make a good list with the amount of time or energy that I have. I would agree that to believe in Christ is a belief that calls one to action rather than an intellectual assent to a fact.

 

[guanophore]

I am finding this thread to be rather exhausting. I am not sure I can make a good list with the amount of time or energy that I have. I would agree that to believe in Christ is a belief that calls one to action rather than an intellectual assent to a fact.

You are right, and it is really off topic here anyhow. Shall we open a new thread? This one is about to be closed anyhow since it is over the 1000 post limit.

I do not want YOU to make a list…I want you to show me where Scripture has the list.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

I wonder if we will after just a couple of minutes.

I figure for at least a thousand we will be too awe stuck to think of any thing besides His grace that we are even there,

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

You are right, and it is really off topic here anyhow. Shall we open a new thread? This one is about to be closed anyhow since it is over the 1000 post limit.

I do not want YOU to make a list…I want you to show me where Scripture has the list.

there is a thread already on that topic. I havent joined it but if you want me to I would.