Where was God during the holocaust?

[goout]

Prodigal1984:

Therefore, if objective morality exists, then it follows that God exists. Objective moral laws point to a perfect and unchanging moral law-giver.

What would be the objective moral law concerning slavery? Is it objectively moral for a white European to enslave a young African woman? Also what would be the objective moral law concerning torture and burning another human being alive while she is tied to the stake? Would it be objectively moral to do this to a heretic or to a witch?

Those things are immoral. Why is this even a question here?

 

[woolycaterpillar]

What a novel idea! Meat puppets!

I cannot help but think that if everyone got along better, life would be so much more pleasant.

1

 

[whatistrue]

Not really that novel. I’m not actually that original (or smart, according to many).

If everyone got along better because they realized it was better to do so and chose to, absolutely. But if there isn’t a choice, not so much. For “pleasant” to be a thing, there needs to be at least the possibility of “unpleasant”.

 

[woolycaterpillar]

Yep! You are right. I had a boss once who cussed me out on a regular basis. I always wished someone could/would change her, but no one did. Maybe she needed an exorcism.

 

[AlNg]

Those things are immoral. Why is this even a question here?

Joan of Arc and others were burned at the stake. People were burned at the stake in the papal states. Ad Extirpanda is quoted as an authorization to use torture in the Inquisition, (under certain conditions), Dum Diversis called for certain people to be enslaved forever.

Why is this even a question here?

Because of the question about objective morality.

if objective morality exists, then it follows that God exists.

Slavery, torture and burning at the stake were thought to be objectively moral at one time.

 

[Wozza]

I’m not saying we should be thankful for the evil, what I meant was, that any evil action that God was incapable of bringing a greater good out of (with our cooperation), would be prevented by God, rather, in order that free will be maintained (something he clearly views as an inviolable good) and that the greater good may be achieved, He may permit the evil to pass.

I’m agreeing with you. All evil acts permitted by God result in a greater good. So evil acts are a portend of some greater good to come. Things will be better overall. We should be pleased.

 

[Wozza]

Wozza:

So we should be thankfull for evil acts because if they didn’t occur things would be even worse. At least, that’s how it seems to work.

I should be thankful for the Holocaust?

It’s not my view, Sad. That it is how it is being explained to me.

 

[Wozza]

Instead, evil can best be described as “unwarranted suffering” or “a state of affairs that is not supposed to be.” But this implies that there is “a way things are supposed to be”—a notion that doesn’t make sense in an accidental, atheistic universe, but does make sense in a universe created by God.

You should ask an atheist what he or she considers to be evil rather than make it up to suit your argument. Or maybe as you used to be an atheist that was what you actually believed.

And some constructive criticism, following on from what Sad said: Split your posts into paragraphs. They are so much easier to read.

 

[SadPotato]

It’s not my view, Sad. That it is how it is being explained to me.

My apologies, Wozza. My sarcasm meter needs to be checked, lol.

 

[Wozza]

Wozza:

It’s not my view, Sad. That it is how it is being explained to me.

My apologies, Wozza. My sarcasm meter needs to be checked, lol.

Keep the meter up near the red. It’s a handy tool when used judiciously.

 

[PeterT]

An atheist is challenging me about the goodness of God. I need help responding. How could an all loving good God allow the unspeakable and horrific war crimes of the holocaust that resulted in the tourture and death of 6 million Jews and numerous other groups including ethnic Poles, those of African decent, the Romani, the mentally disabled, homosexuals, and many many more. How could God allow such evil? How could God allow the most evil and vile man to ever exist so far rise to power? Why didn’t God step in to prevent such despicable actions?

Because God isn’t a puppetmaster and therefore we’re not his puppets.

God allows people the freedom to behave in any manner they choose (for better or for worse).

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

I wouldn’t bother. Anything less than God stopping the event is going to be satisfactory to an atheist.

 

[Wozza]

I wouldn’t bother. Anything less than God stopping the event is going to be satisfactory to an atheist.

This is a common missaprehension. Atheists (obviously) don’t believe in God so them complaining about Him not stopping something evil is like you complaining that Santa didn’t leave any presents.

What atheists are generally interested in is not why He doesn’t intervene but why YOU think He doesn’t.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

I wasn’t interested in the specifics of that part. But looking at it again I didn’t even say that atheists believe in God in the first place.

 

[po18guy]

Please see the following post. I was replying to the OP.

 

[po18guy]

To the OP: Never mind where God was! Where were the athiests during the holocaust?

Right there shedding the blood of millions upon millions.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

To the OP: Never mind where God was! Where were the athiests during the holocaust?

Right there shedding the blood of millions upon millions.

The obvious objection is that they aren’t omnipotent and they would make a distinction between themselves and the people who performed those actions.

Aside from that this type of response is certainly going to just make things worse.

 

[po18guy]

Ah, but without God, there could be no athiests!

And, God is so big on freedom that he allows atheists to exist, even though they abuse the freedom which they have received from Him.

 

[Wozza]

To the OP: Never mind where God was! Where were the athiests during the holocaust?

Right there shedding the blood of millions upon millions.

If we accept that a few percent of any given population is atheist then I would suggest that some of them were herding Jewish people into gas chambers and some of them were being herded into gas chambers.

What an utterly nonsensical post to make.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

Ah, but without God, there could be no athiests!

And, God is so big on freedom that he allows atheists to exist, even though they abuse the freedom which they have received from Him.

The common-sense answer is that a single bad action can mar a whole lot of good, so that doesn’t really answer this particular objection.