Where were the Protestants before the 1500's?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Nanotwerp
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Now, Dalphon…it is time for you to answer the same question…How can you be sure that everything the apostles taught is carried in your particular protestant denomination?

How can you be sure?
I don’t think you get what I’m saying. I know my church doesn’t teach everything the apostles taught. They teach bible only and Jesus only. Those who do this still manage to bring people to Jesus. Why would they do such a thing if it were not initiated by the Holy Spirit? If Catholicism teaches more, that’s good too. So if you object to what God is doing with these Protestant followers of Jesus then I suppose you also are a sort of protester or protestant with a small p.
 
I don’t think you get what I’m saying. I know my church doesn’t teach everything the apostles taught. They teach bible only and Jesus only. Those who do this still manage to bring people to Jesus. Why would they do such a thing if it were not initiated by the Holy Spirit? If Catholicism teaches more, that’s good too. So if you object to what God is doing with these Protestant followers of Jesus then I suppose you also are a sort of protester or protestant with a small p.
We would be like Priscilla and Aquila, who admired the fervor of Apollos, but who had to take Apollos aside and give him correction.

You stand in the tradition of Apollos. Full of zeal, but lacking in truth.

-PR “Priscilla”-merger 😉
 
:confused:

Please explain what you mean by Gospel messages. I consider the Gospel messages to be the entire New Testament which would make your statement untrue.
The apostles didn’t have the entire New Testament. They didn’t have Catholic tradition or anything else that followed. They only had “believe in Jesus and be baptized.”

Mark 16:14 Afterward He appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at the table; and He reproached them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who had seen Him after He had risen. 15And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16“He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. 17“These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; 18they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

Jesus preaches the gospel
John 3:16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19“This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20“For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21“But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”

Acts 8:34The eunuch answered Philip and said, “Please tell me, of whom does the prophet say this? Of himself or of someone else?” 35Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him. 36As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch said, “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?”

Acts 10:34 Opening his mouth, Peter said:
“I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality, 35but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him. 36“The word which He sent to the sons of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all)— 37you yourselves know the thing which took place throughout all Judea, starting from Galilee, after the baptism which John proclaimed. 38“You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. 39“We are witnesses of all the things He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They also put Him to death by hanging Him on a cross. 40“God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible, 41not to all the people, but to witnesses who were chosen beforehand by God, that is, to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead. 42“And He ordered us to preach to the people, and solemnly to testify that this is the One who has been appointed by God as Judge of the living and the dead. 43“Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.”

Acts 16:25 But about midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns of praise to God, and the prisoners were listening to them; 26and suddenly there came a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison house were shaken; and immediately all the doors were opened and everyone’s chains were unfastened. 27When the jailer awoke and saw the prison doors opened, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself, supposing that the prisoners had escaped. 28But Paul cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Do not harm yourself, for we are all here!” 29And he called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas, 30and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. 33And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household. 34And he brought them into his house and set food before them, and rejoiced greatly, having believed in God with his whole household.
 
We would be like Priscilla and Aquila, who admired the fervor of Apollos, but who had to take Apollos aside and give him correction.

You stand in the tradition of Apollos. Full of zeal, but lacking in truth.

-PR “Priscilla”-merger 😉
Jesus IS the the truth.
 
The apostles didn’t have the entire New Testament or Catholic tradition or the teachings of the early church fathers. It didn’t stop them from saving the lost.

Mark 16:14 Afterward He appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at the table; and He reproached them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who had seen Him after He had risen. 15And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16“He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. 17“These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; 18they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

Jesus preaches the gospel
John 3:16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19“This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20“For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21“But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”

Acts 8:34The eunuch answered Philip and said, “Please tell me, of whom does the prophet say this? Of himself or of someone else?” 35Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him. 36As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch said, “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?”

Acts 10:34 Opening his mouth, Peter said:
“I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality, 35but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him. 36“The word which He sent to the sons of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all)— 37you yourselves know the thing which took place throughout all Judea, starting from Galilee, after the baptism which John proclaimed. 38“You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. 39“We are witnesses of all the things He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They also put Him to death by hanging Him on a cross. 40“God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible, 41not to all the people, but to witnesses who were chosen beforehand by God, that is, to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead. 42“And He ordered us to preach to the people, and solemnly to testify that this is the One who has been appointed by God as Judge of the living and the dead. 43“Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.”

Acts 16:25 But about midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns of praise to God, and the prisoners were listening to them; 26and suddenly there came a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison house were shaken; and immediately all the doors were opened and everyone’s chains were unfastened. 27When the jailer awoke and saw the prison doors opened, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself, supposing that the prisoners had escaped. 28But Paul cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Do not harm yourself, for we are all here!” 29And he called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas, 30and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. 33And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household. 34And he brought them into his house and set food before them, and rejoiced greatly, having believed in God with his whole household.
 
Will you pray for me?

Since you know I don’t pray to angels or anyone else, have you prayed for me?
I will. St. Paul (God actually through St. Paul) directs us to pray for one another. In doing so we build up the Body Of Christ and His Church. Both the Church Triumphant AND the Church Militant.

So the Written Word of God says that we should. There is no dispute of God’s word in this regards. Conversely, no where does scripture say that we should only pray to God. God’s Word does not say this.

So the only question is can those Saint’s who have gone before us, receive our prayers through the power of God?

To this the Church has a long time, based on the apostolic faith, said “yes”.
 
I don’t think you get what I’m saying. I know my church doesn’t teach everything the apostles taught. They teach bible only and Jesus only.

So you are relying on opinions?🤷 And your own interpretation of the Bible?

So you do not know if what is being taught in your church is true or not?
Those who do this still manage to bring people to Jesus. Why would they do such a thing if it were not initiated by the Holy Spirit?
 
Since you know I don’t pray to angels or anyone else, have you prayed for me?
Not only that, but I will ask your guardian angel to pray ever so fervently for you.

And if you give me your first name I will ask your patron saint to pray for you, as well. (No obligation to give your name, of course. It’s not that revealing, but if you prefer to keep it anonymous I absolutely understand.)
 
So you do not know if what is being taught in your church is true or not?
It must be understood that there will indeed be errors in his church’s teaching.

That is, if he believes the man-made tradition that no man can be infallible.
 
I will. St. Paul (God actually through St. Paul) directs us to pray for one another. In doing so we build up the Body Of Christ and His Church. Both the Church Triumphant AND the Church Militant.
Thanks for your prayers.
So the Written Word of God says that we should. There is no dispute of God’s word in this regards. Conversely, no where does scripture say that we should only pray to God. God’s Word does not say this.
It doesn’t say only God. It says “to God.”
“Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.”
Scripture doesn’t say pray to angels but Catholics do, That’s OK. I just don’t understand why the people on this thread get so excited when I say I pray to God. There’s nothing wrong with that.
only question is can those Saint’s who have gone before us, receive our prayers through the power of God?
I already said in earlier posts that I know the saints and angels receive our prayers.
To this the Church has a long time, based on the apostolic faith, said “yes”.
Yes, certainly. But if I want to pray to God I’m not doing it to be anti-Catholic.
 
It must be understood that there will indeed be errors in his church’s teaching.
It must be understood that very few Catholics will be free from error. The catechism is about 500 pages long. You would first have to be fairly educated and then try to understand it all when you’ve finished reading it.
What good is having all the correct teachings if you can’t convey them in an understandable way to the whole church?
That is, if he believes the man-made tradition that no man can be infallible.
I’m with you on that. I’ve seen many man-made traditions and errors among Protestants.
 
The apostles didn’t have the entire New Testament. They didn’t have Catholic tradition or anything else that followed. They only had “believe in Jesus and be baptized.”

Mark 16:14 Afterward He appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at the table; and He reproached them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who had seen Him after He had risen. 15And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16“He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. 17“These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; 18they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

Jesus preaches the gospel
John 3:16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19“This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20“For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21“But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”

Acts 8:34The eunuch answered Philip and said, “Please tell me, of whom does the prophet say this? Of himself or of someone else?” 35Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him. 36As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch said, “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?”

Acts 10:34 Opening his mouth, Peter said:
“I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality, 35but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him. 36“The word which He sent to the sons of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all)— 37you yourselves know the thing which took place throughout all Judea, starting from Galilee, after the baptism which John proclaimed. 38“You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. 39“We are witnesses of all the things He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They also put Him to death by hanging Him on a cross. 40“God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible, 41not to all the people, but to witnesses who were chosen beforehand by God, that is, to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead. 42“And He ordered us to preach to the people, and solemnly to testify that this is the One who has been appointed by God as Judge of the living and the dead. 43“Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.”

Acts 16:25 But about midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns of praise to God, and the prisoners were listening to them; 26and suddenly there came a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison house were shaken; and immediately all the doors were opened and everyone’s chains were unfastened. 27When the jailer awoke and saw the prison doors opened, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself, supposing that the prisoners had escaped. 28But Paul cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Do not harm yourself, for we are all here!” 29And he called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas, 30and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. 33And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household. 34And he brought them into his house and set food before them, and rejoiced greatly, having believed in God with his whole household.
Hi Dalphon: The Apostles did not have what we call the NT. They had what Jesus taught them, and only a few Apostles ever wrote anything so far as we know and understand. St. Paul wrote many Epistles but they were not Gospels but letters explaining how one believes and lives. The NT is made up of those writings that were preserved and handed down and were accepted because they conformed to what the oral teachings were, had they not been then of course they would never have been included and accepted as from the Apostles and their disciples. NT Gospels only have what the writers though was needed in order for one to believe, and there was plenty more that was never written down and besides if one reads the NT one see’s that Jesus did and spoke more than was ever written down. So traditions comes into it in understanding better what was and was accepted as the NT.
 
Hi Dalphon: The Apostles did not have what we call the NT. They had what Jesus taught them, and only a few Apostles ever wrote anything so far as we know and understand. St. Paul wrote many Epistles but they were not Gospels but letters explaining how one believes and lives. The NT is made up of those writings that were preserved and handed down and were accepted because they conformed to what the oral teachings were, had they not been then of course they would never have been included and accepted as from the Apostles and their disciples. NT Gospels only have what the writers though was needed in order for one to believe, and there was plenty more that was never written down and besides if one reads the NT one see’s that Jesus did and spoke more than was ever written down. So traditions comes into it in understanding better what was and was accepted as the NT.
You’re preaching to the choir sister - or brother. 👍
 
The apostles didn’t have the entire New Testament. They didn’t have Catholic tradition or anything else that followed. They only had "believe in Jesus and be baptized.
Your statement
All that’s true but what I said is also true. No mention of Mary in any of the recorded gospel messages.
She is mentioned in Mathew, Luke, Mark, and John so the statement that she is not mentioned in any of the recorded (written) Gospel Messages is untrue.
That raises the question of what is to believe in Jesus mean. I believe it means all that He taught them and He taught them a great deal more than believe and be baptized. They had more than the entire New Testament they had what it contains taught to them directly by Jesus.
John 21:25
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written.
Books may not be able to contain it all but the Apostles were there to take it all in
 
In the Gospel according to Matthew, chapter 28, it is written that Jesus said…“Going, therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.”

Notice that Jesus said that the Apostles were to teach the nations to observe all things that He had commanded. All things. They weren’t commissioned to only teach that “anyone who believes in Jesus is saved.” There’s more to it than that. The Apostles had to also teach those things which were a little more inconvenient. The Catholic Church has striven since the beginning to live up to what Our Lord commissioned it to do.

A Catholic need not memorize or even read all of the Catholic catechism. There are certain things that must be accepted, however, in order to be a faithful Catholic and go to Heaven. It takes about six months of study to prepare for conversion (or first communion), and it’s not that rigorous.
 
Your statement

She is mentioned in Mathew, Luke, Mark, and John so the statement that she is not mentioned in any of the recorded (written) Gospel Messages is untrue.
That raises the question of what is to believe in Jesus mean. I believe it means all that He taught them and He taught them a great deal more than believe and be baptized. They had more than the entire New Testament they had what it contains taught to them directly by Jesus.

Books may not be able to contain it all but the Apostles were there to take it all in
In the Gospel according to Mark, chapter 16, it is written that Jesus said…“Going, therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.”

Notice that Jesus said that the Apostles were to teach the nations to observe all things that He had commanded. All things. They weren’t commissioned to only teach that “anyone who believes in Jesus is saved.” There’s more to it than that. The Apostles had to also teach those things which were a little more inconvenient. The Catholic Church has striven since the beginning to live up to what Our Lord commissioned it to do.

A Catholic need not memorize or even read all of the Catholic catechism. There are certain things that must be accepted, however, in order to be a faithful Catholic and go to Heaven. It takes about six months of study to prepare for conversion (or first communion), and it’s not that rigorous.
I really don’t understand what’s going on here. I gave an example in an earlier post of a life or death situation and I said if I only had 30 seconds to preach to a dying person give him John 3. That information would be enough to give him salvation if he truly believes it.
That was too simple so then we went into “you don’t know that for sure”, “is that all you need to tell people?” Then I said if he lives I would tell him to go to church and learn about persevering to the end.
So what is it? You want the message to be more complicated? OK I’ll try to complicate it in future postings.
 
I really don’t understand what’s going on here. I gave an example in an earlier post of a life or death situation and I said if I only had 30 seconds to preach to a dying person give him John 3. That information would be enough to give him salvation if he truly believes it.
That was too simple so then we went into “you don’t know that for sure”, “is that all you need to tell people?” Then I said if he lives I would tell him to go to church and learn about persevering to the end.
So what is it? You want the message to be more complicated? OK I’ll try to complicate it in future postings.
My apologies, I didn’t realize that you were only interested knowing what a person needed to know in the thirty seconds before he or she died. I guess I missed that post.
 
In the Gospel according to Matthew, chapter 28, it is written that Jesus said…“Going, therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.”

Notice that Jesus said that the Apostles were to teach the nations to observe all things that He had commanded. All things. They weren’t commissioned to only teach that “anyone who believes in Jesus is saved.” There’s more to it than that. The Apostles had to also teach those things which were a little more inconvenient. The Catholic Church has striven since the beginning to live up to what Our Lord commissioned it to do.

A Catholic need not memorize or even read all of the Catholic catechism. There are certain things that must be accepted, however, in order to be a faithful Catholic and go to Heaven. It takes about six months of study to prepare for conversion (or first communion), and it’s not that rigorous.
Hi Denise 1957: I agree with all you said. I would however, like to add that Jesus did not command the Apostles to write but to preach and teach all nations as you stated. The writers of the NT did not when they wrote thought themselves inspired or even thought that what they wrote would become Sacred Scripture, They did not write what they wrote for that Purpose, but for the circumstances which called them to write in the communities that called for it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top