Where will you go when you die?

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Peace be with you!
Church Militant:
You can’t deny that passage…Nor 1st Maccabees 12:46 It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.
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Ok. As you wish…
  1. 1st Maccabees is not Scripture. I can prove it if you want.
  2. Let’s quote 1 Corinthians 3:5-15:
“What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one.
I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth.
So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth.
Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.
According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it.
**For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. **
Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work.
If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.”

So tell me:
  1. This passage is about the ministers in the Church who teach doctrines. Some teach according to Christ, and some others according to their illusions ( like that of Purgatory ). Do you think Purgatory is just for those ministers? ( Because this passage talks about ministers like Paul and Apollos ).
  2. "for the day will show it**"**: Do you think the Purgatory doesn’t exist now and it WILL BE ESTABLISHED in the DAY of Judgment?
Enough for now…

In Love,
Yaqubos†
 
Maccabees is scripture to more Christians than your KJV…LOL
and has been longer too…
Back to the tracts again man,
catholic.com/library/Purgatory.asp
catholic.com/library/Roots_of_Purgatory.asp

as for “illusions” …ya got no leg to stand on w/ your “rapture” doctrines that are only about 125 years old.

Let me suggest that you read these tracts and then post here any points that seem wrong to you including quotes from the tract itself. That seems like a lotta work, but it’s better than the way you do it right now.

Another point…if blasphemy against the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven in this world or in the world to come, then does this not clearly imply that there is forgivesness of sins in the world to come. BTW…in talking to a good Hasidic Jewish friend of mine I discovered that the Jews have always believed in a time of cleansing after death…a purgatory, if you will.
(Matthew 12:32 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come.)

Have fun…but read those tracts…or are ya scared they’ll make too much sense? In the words of a very holy Polish guy, “Be not afraid”, but then he’s qouting someone else. 😉
 
Peace be with you!

“Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth;
For the LORD speaks” ( Isaiah 1:2 )

“We must obey God rather than men.” ( Acts 5:29 )

“AT THE ACCEPTABLE TIME I LISTENED TO YOU,
AND ON THE DAY OF SALVATION I HELPED YOU.”
Behold, now is “THE ACCEPTABLE TIME,” behold, now is "THE DAY OF SALVATION"–" ( 2 Corinthians 6:2 )

“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.” ( Ephesians 2:8-9 )

“How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?” ( Romans 10:14 )

“**faith **comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.” ( Romans 10:17 )

“we walk by faith, not by sight” ( 2 Corinthians 5:7 )

But as for the dead in Christ, they are not walking by faith, but they are seeing the Lord by sight.

So let’s believe what the Lord says:

“I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,
and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?” ( John 11:25-26 )

He asks us today:

“Do you believe this?”

In Love,
Yaqubos†
 
I hope to go to Purgatory… I don’t feel worthy of going straight to Heaven… I want to be clean before I see my Father.
 
Peace be with you!
Church Militant:
Same ole same ole…read …then we can talk.
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The Word of God is the authority in these matters.

Read the Scripture BY FAITH, then you can talk:

“I BELIEVED, THEREFORE I SPOKE”

As long as you don’t believe, you will continue to speak about human vanities.

In Love,
Yaqubos†
 
All Catholic Believe that Jesus is their Lord and Savior. Now a man named Bill personally decided to accept Jesus as his Lord and Savior when he was 18 and was born again. He lived his life compleatly based on the Gospel. He followed the 10 commandments compleatly, he gave to charitiy, he got involved in the ministry, and even became a missionary for 20 years. He preached the Gospel for years and many people accepted Christ. Then one day he woke up, he was cranky and decided not to Thank God for the day. He got into an argument with his mother over the phone. He went to the grocery store that day and while he was shopping, he went to the bulk food section and helped himself to the candy there and did not pay for it. On the way home, he saw a cat in the middle of the road and intentionally ran it over, cursing the Lord in the process. Then when he arrived home and died suddenly from a heart attack, he did not even have a chance to call upon the Lord for mercy. Where is this man now?
 
I know that my Redeemer lives, and that God is entirely trustworthy to fulfill all of His promises. I place my full confidence in Jesus Christ, the Son of God and the Son of Mary, who beckons me to follow after Him.

As a Catholic, I am aware that I have free will. I can choose to trust Him and obey Him, or I can choose not to. God has made possible every thing that is necessary in order for my salvation. I choose to accept the gifts and the opportunities that are set before me and available to me. Whenever I may fail or even stray, I have determined to keep short accounts with God who has purchased me with the Precious Blood of His Son, my Savior and Lord, Jesus, the Christ.

It is my firm hope, that at the hour of my death, I will be found in His friendship and filled with His sanctifying grace. With Mary, I pray, Amen. So be it. Whatever Thou wilt, my Lord.
 
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YAQUBOS:
Peace be with you!

The Word of God is the authority in these matters.

Read the Scripture BY FAITH, then you can talk:

“I BELIEVED, THEREFORE I SPOKE”

As long as you don’t believe, you will continue to speak about human vanities.

In Love,
Yaqubos†
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I HAVE & DO read the Bible, but who says your personal interpretation is correct? All you have is YOUR opinion…who made you an authority? You try to tell us that the Deuterocanonical books are not scripture, yet they have been for 2,000 years. I’ve BEEN where you’re at my friend & it’s NOT the Christianity of the early church or the NT. All you have is the SAME OLD tired Sola Scriptura appeals that have only been around since 1517. Just go to heaven & quit trying to talk to us about stuff you don’t understand. You don’t even have the courage to read the simple apologetic tracts on this site.Yet I’m sure you read that commentary in that 66 book Bible there by your Computer…& agree w/all it says. Consider the CCC & these tracts another commentary, & check it out. I know how you feel…you’re afraid that something might just shake that non-Catholic (bordering on Anti-Catholic) armour that you have on.You’re afraid that you might encounter truth & that it would require you to change. So? I was the same way…until some guy attacked the Catholic Church about something I KNEW was wrong and I began to read Catholic books about that topic. I found that the Church has been right all along & that the guy was WAY off base. As I continued to read & challenge the things I had been taught in Protestant non-denominational churches I discovered that the Catholic Church really is the THE New Testament Christian church, teaching the fullness of the truth.

Look Yaq,
Have the courtesy & courage to read what we believe before you come in here making Protestant remarks about things we believe. You really have no idea what we believe. We may not always explain it very well on here, but there are other resouces that do, & they’re right here on this site. Or even more here : vatican.va/phome_en.htm You can go right to the top, as they say.

I’m still praying for you & all the guys like you…like I used to be.
 
I believe we have all considered this issue from time to time. I do have serious reservations about the existence of purgatory, since there is virtually no Biblical basis for it. It is weak Theology to build a system of belief from only a few fleeting Scripture references. I believe we need to be very cautious about using the “Tradition” basis, since I am not sure how you could “tradition” something into existence.

If purgatory were really that central to our after-life belief and experience, then surely, surely, Paul would have made some reference to it. I had an opportunity to ask Brenning Manning (published author and scholar) what happens to the soul immediately after death. I recall that he looked me squarely in the eyes and said “I don’t have the foggiest idea”. Personally, this whole discussion wonders me, but I do believe that Christ suffered and died for my/our sins and will ensure we get home before dark.
 
Scripture is merely that part of tradition which was written down and the bible itself says that not everything was written down. Why place more importance on the written word of God than on the spoken word of God?
 
Hopefully when I die, my soul will go to Purgatory, and then to Heaven.

Of my body, I told my husband that I want to be stuffed, and he can sit me in front of my computer, so I look lifelike.

:blessyou:
Annie
 
Sir Knight:
Scripture is merely that part of tradition which was written down and the bible itself says that not everything was written down. Why place more importance on the written word of God than on the spoken word of God?
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Regarding your comment, I would ask the question is a written contract more valid than an oral contract. Of course the answer is that an oral contract is just as valid as a written contract, except that the written contract is more enforceable simply because its terms or visible for all to see and they cannot be changed at a later time. I therefore believe we need to tread very cautiously in developing any system of belief and call it tradition. There is too much room to misconstrue the original intent.
 
Pax Vobis Cvm!

YAQUBOS said:
1st Maccabees is not Scripture. I can prove it if you want.
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Actually it’s 2nd Maccabees that mentions praying for the dead. You can discuss why you deny 2nd Maccabees as being part of the Canon in the Bible thread, since the Deuterocanonicals is how it started.
 
John Colean:
Regarding your comment, I would ask the question is a written contract more valid than an oral contract. Of course the answer is that an oral contract is just as valid as a written contract, except that the written contract is more enforceable simply because its terms or visible for all to see and they cannot be changed at a later time. I therefore believe we need to tread very cautiously in developing any system of belief and call it tradition. There is too much room to misconstrue the original intent.
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Please bear in mind that what is referred to as ‘tradition’ IS written down as part of offical church teaching. It is merely not written down in the bible. Also keep in mind that even the bible was not written down for the first several decades. So any areas of concern can be equally applied to both.
 
goin up to the spirit in the sky
where I’m gonna go when I die
when I lay me down and die
goin up to the spirit in the sky

most of us have a vague hope of heaven, without any concept of what heaven really is, only that it must be better than earth. but when it comes to “well, how do I get to heaven?” most of us don’t like the answer, anymore than we like the answer to “well, so how do I get healthy and fit and lose weight?”
 
Sir Knight:
Please bear in mind that what is referred to as ‘tradition’ IS written down as part of offical church teaching. It is merely not written down in the bible. Also keep in mind that even the bible was not written down for the first several decades. So any areas of concern can be equally applied to both.
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Sir Knight, I understand that traditions may be written down; however, I happen to believe that Scripture is the “inspired word of God”. Church Authority has certified this point since at least the fifth century although the Scriptures were written much earlier. I am not sure when traditions were actually written and they certainly have not been considered the inspired word of God. Therefore, they should not be accorded the same authenticity as Sacred Scripture and we should tred lightly beliefs that have their only source in tradition.

John
 
Peace be with you!
Psalm45:9:
All Catholic Believe that Jesus is their Lord and Savior. Now a man named Bill personally decided to accept Jesus as his Lord and Savior when he was 18 and was born again. He lived his life compleatly based on the Gospel. He followed the 10 commandments compleatly, he gave to charitiy, he got involved in the ministry, and even became a missionary for 20 years. He preached the Gospel for years and many people accepted Christ. Then one day he woke up, he was cranky and decided not to Thank God for the day. He got into an argument with his mother over the phone. He went to the grocery store that day and while he was shopping, he went to the bulk food section and helped himself to the candy there and did not pay for it. On the way home, he saw a cat in the middle of the road and intentionally ran it over, cursing the Lord in the process. Then when he arrived home and died suddenly from a heart attack, he did not even have a chance to call upon the Lord for mercy. Where is this man now?
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The main problem of this person is in the imagination that created him… This imagination says:
He lived his life compleatly based on the Gospel. He followed the 10 commandments compleatly
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Dear imagination: are you sure this man lived COMPLETELY based on the Gospel? Did he COMPLETELY follow the 10 Commandments?

Can you please name a person, other than Jesus Christ, who followed the 10 Commandments COMPLETELY?

In Love,
Yaqubos†
 
Peace be with you!
Church Militant:
I HAVE & DO read the Bible, but who says your personal interpretation is correct? All you have is YOUR opinion…who made you an authority? You try to tell us that the Deuterocanonical books are not scripture, yet they have been for 2,000 years. I’ve BEEN where you’re at my friend & it’s NOT the Christianity of the early church or the NT. All you have is the SAME OLD tired Sola Scriptura appeals that have only been around since 1517. Just go to heaven & quit trying to talk to us about stuff you don’t understand. You don’t even have the courage to read the simple apologetic tracts on this site.Yet I’m sure you read that commentary in that 66 book Bible there by your Computer…& agree w/all it says. Consider the CCC & these tracts another commentary, & check it out. I know how you feel…you’re afraid that something might just shake that non-Catholic (bordering on Anti-Catholic) armour that you have on.You’re afraid that you might encounter truth & that it would require you to change. So? I was the same way…until some guy attacked the Catholic Church about something I KNEW was wrong and I began to read Catholic books about that topic. I found that the Church has been right all along & that the guy was WAY off base. As I continued to read & challenge the things I had been taught in Protestant non-denominational churches I discovered that the Catholic Church really is the THE New Testament Christian church, teaching the fullness of the truth.

Look Yaq,
Have the courtesy & courage to read what we believe before you come in here making Protestant remarks about things we believe. You really have no idea what we believe. We may not always explain it very well on here, but there are other resouces that do, & they’re right here on this site. Or even more here : vatican.va/phome_en.htm You can go right to the top, as they say.

I’m still praying for you & all the guys like you…like I used to be.
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Your main problem is that you are doing that big assumption that I don’t know your Roman philosophies, and that I am protestant… As long as you do this, you will not be able to understand me.

I have always tried patiently to tell you, but you don’t want to listen. You insist to put me in your vain categories. As you wish.

The Lord knows.

In Love,
Yaqubos†
 
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