Where will you go when you die?

[michaelp]

Psalm45:9:

We believe that too, the works of law St. Paul is referring to in his Epistle to the Romans is the Mosaic Law. He was criticizing the Jews who rejected the savior. Being circumcised, eating Kosher foods, and offering up animal sacrifices instead of offering up the perfect and eternal sacrifice of Calvary, etc. The mosaic law is not going to save you, because Christ’s crucifixion and resurrection has ended the Mosaic Law. Just like what St. John the Baptist said, “Do not presume to say to yourselves, `We have Abraham as our father’; for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children to Abraham. Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees.” (Matthew 3:9-10) Works of Law and good works are not the same thing. However, good works do not save us, but the infusing grace that comes through good works does.

The Romans weren’t Jews. This would have been meaningless to them if it referred only to the ceremonial aspects of the Mosaic law. It is exegetically implausible that this only refers to the ceremonial part of the law. It sets up a false dichotomy that no one would have recognized.

How do I know this?

1. Romans 2:15 says that the Gentiles have the works of the Law written on their heart and their conscience accuses or defends them concerning the Law. Do you really think that their conscience was accusing or defending them about circumcision, or ceremonial sacrifices, or the Passover, or the Feasts of Tabernacles? Of course not. Their conscience told them about the Ten commandments. There is not a reason to create the separation that you said above.
2. Paul speak of the Law (nomos) again in Romans 7. Specifically to the Ten Commandments.

3 The second half of v. 20, “for through the law comes the knowledge of sin,” is hard to explain if the phrase “works of the law” is understood in a restricted sense.

4 The plural phrase “works of the law” would have to be understood in a different sense from the singular phrase “the work of the law” in 2:15.

1. Similar phrases involving the law in Romans (2:13, 14; 2:25, 26, 27; 7:25; 8:4; and 13:8) which are naturally related to the phrase “works of the law” cannot be taken to refer to circumcision (in fact, in 2:25 circumcision is explicitly contrasted with keeping the law). Those interpreters who reject the “narrow” interpretation of “works of the law” understand the phrase to refer to obedience to the Mosaic law in general.

You cannot just simply choose to say that Paul is referring to the ceremonial aspects of the Law without any justification. Again, the Gentiles in Rome would have had no clue what Paul was talking about and the Jews would have NEVER understood this dichotomy between the ceremonial law and the moral law. They saw the Law holistically.

Hope you understand. I just come in and say this because I have seen this fallacious interpretation of Paul’s use of the Law on this site and many others and thought that I would correct it.

Michael

 

[Psalm45_9]

michaelp:

The Romans weren’t Jews. This would have been meaningless to them if it referred only to the ceremonial aspects of the Mosaic law. It is exegetically implausible that this only refers to the ceremonial part of the law. It sets up a false dichotomy that no one would have recognized.

They had the LXX, many would recoginize it.

MICHAELP:

1. Romans 2:15 says that the Gentiles have the works of the Law written on their heart and their conscience accuses or defends them concerning the Law. Do you really think that their conscience was accusing or defending them about circumcision, or ceremonial sacrifices, or the Passover, or the Feasts of Tabernacles? Of course not. Their conscience told them about the Ten commandments. There is not a reason to create the separation that you said above.

If they did not know the Jewish customs of the Mosaic Laws, then they would not know the Ten Commandments. There was a Jewish community in Rome, I’m sure the Romans would be aware of Jewish Customs.

MICHAELP:

1. Paul speak of the Law (nomos

) again in Romans 7. Specifically to the Ten Commandments.

Becuase of the Jewish community in Rome and the LXX I’m sure the Romans were already aware of the ten commandments, as well as Jewish feasts and customs.

 

[Psalm45_9]

michaelp:

Hope you understand. I just come in and say this because I have seen this fallacious interpretation of Paul’s use of the Law on this site and many others and thought that I would correct it.

THANK YOU! I just discovered my error and I am currently doing research. I have just discovered that the coucil of Trent never refered to Romans as ceremonial laws. Now I must get back to my homework and begin to research the theology. God Bless.

 

[michaelp]

Psalm45:9:

THANK YOU! I just discovered my error and I am currently doing research. I have just discovered that the coucil of Trent never refered to Romans as ceremonial laws. Now I must get back to my homework and begin to research the theology. God Bless.

Wow! Whatever your conclusion, I have just gain much respect for you.

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!
Psalm45:9:

THANK YOU! I just discovered my error and I am currently doing research. I have just discovered that the coucil of Trent never refered to Romans as ceremonial laws. Now I must get back to my homework and begin to research the theology. God Bless.

Yes, Psalm45:9. And don’t forget to read the Law to see what are the works of the Law.

Let’s mention one important work of the Law:

“you shall love your neighbor as yourself” ( Leviticus 19:18 )

And the Scripture says that you are not saved by this, but by faith.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[DominvsVobiscvm]

From a Catholic standpoint, to answer this poll would be hretical, since no man can know with 100% certainty whether or not he will persevere until the end.

And the Scripture says that you are not saved by this, but by faith.

I thought that Jesus was the one doing the saving?

You believe a person can save himself just by having faith?

Oh, you mean faith is a result of us freely assenting to God’s grace?

Oh! Could it be that this is how it works with good works, too?

 

[Psalm45_9]

YAQUBOS:

Peace be with you!

Yes, Psalm45:9. And don’t forget to read the Law to see what are the works of the Law.

Let’s mention one important work of the Law:

“you shall love your neighbor as yourself” ( Leviticus 19:18 )

And the Scripture says that you are not saved by this, but by faith.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

Yes, because without faith our good works would mean nothing. And so Good Works without Faith is dead, just like Faith without Good Works is dead, I see no contradictions from St. Paul’s epistle to the Romans.

 

[DominvsVobiscvm]

If good works somehow contradicts a grace-only salvation, then it would seem to me that faith also contradicts grace-alone.

Even the Protestant has to admit that, while salvation is a free gift, God does require something out of the believer (i.e. the act of faith) before he gives it to him.

Unless the Protestant is a Calvinist and doesn’t believe that we even have free will to begin with . . .

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

DominvsVobiscvm:

I thought that Jesus was the one doing the saving?

You thought right. So we can’t do anything to save ourselves.

DominvsVobiscvm:

You believe a person can save himself just by having faith?

No human can save himself.

DominvsVobiscvm:

Oh, you mean faith is a result of us freely assenting to God’s grace?

What do you mean?

DominvsVobiscvm:

Oh! Could it be that this is how it works with good works, too?

What do you mean?

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[Sarah_Jane]

“As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I *will be *saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13).”

Source : Catholic Answers

 

[CJE]

I think it is very important to remember (especially when looking at the wording of this post) that there are only two destinations - Heaven or Hell. Purgatory is merely the “cleaning” area for Heaven.