Where would Martin Luther go to church if he came back today?

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mark_a said:
The ROC certainly avoided the scandals of paid indulgences better than some.

pravoslavie.ru/english/7185.htm
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Hi mark a,

Thanks for pointing me to the above link.:thankyou:

The article mentioned nothing about purgatory, which according to my understanding isn’t an Orthodox concept, so I’m not sure as to how to fit the information given in the article (assuming it’s 100% accurate) into my current inquiry into Orthodoxy. If what is meant by “indulgences” is what I understand Martin Luther was protesting about (amongst other things) i.e. that in the Catholic Church release from purgatory could be purchased by means of monetary gratuities – when the coin in the coffer sings, the soul from purgatory springs – then I guess most people would agree with Luther that this was outrageously wrong.

The difficulty that this outrage causes for me is that it is very closely tied to a doctrine that is singularly Catholic: the doctrine of purgatory. For an inquirer with no Catholic presuppositions, that leads to the question of whether the “abuse of indulgences” might be directly tied to the doctrinal error of proclaiming that, “a place called purgatory exists.” I’m inquiring into Catholicism, too, so perhaps you can see how pivotal a question this is for me?

I’m not sure what to make of the article. I don’t think there’s any doubt that the Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church are in complete disagreement about the existence of purgatory. But if Orthodox teaching is correct and there is no such place as purgatory then how could there be indulgences (in the way indulgences are understood in the west)?

What is your take on it?

Dissymmetrically,
Mick
👍
 
He’d probably try to find a church that hated Jewish people as much as he did. Welcome to Westboro Baptist, Mr. Luther!
 
SSTeacher said:
The article mentioned nothing about purgatory, which according to my understanding isn’t an Orthodox concept, so I’m not sure as to how to fit the information given in the article (assuming it’s 100% accurate) into my current inquiry into Orthodoxy.
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I snipped the following from the link below, whatever the differences are, it sounds like six of one or a half dozen of the other to me, and possibly even misrepresenting Catholic teaching:
. . .both churches affirm that the soul undergoes continued purification after death, but the Orthodox deny (or, at least, refuse to affirm) that a purgatorial fire is the means of such purification.

en.allexperts.com/q/Eastern-Orthodox-1456/Purgatory.htm
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If what is meant by “indulgences” is what I understand Martin Luther was protesting about (amongst other things) i.e. that in the Catholic Church release from purgatory could be purchased by means of monetary gratuities – when the coin in the coffer sings, the soul from purgatory springs – then I guess most people would agree with Luther that this was outrageously wrong.
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Even the Catholic Church agrees with Luther on this one.
The difficulty that this outrage causes for me is that it is very closely tied to a doctrine that is singularly Catholic: the doctrine of purgatory.
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I think the term “purgatory” is almost as misunderstood as the term “papal infallibility”.
For an inquirer with no Catholic presuppositions, that leads to the question of whether the “abuse of indulgences” might be directly tied to the doctrinal error of proclaiming that, “a place called purgatory exists.” I’m inquiring into Catholicism, too, so perhaps you can see how pivotal a question this is for me?
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absolutely!
I’m not sure what to make of the article. I don’t think there’s any doubt that the Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church are in complete disagreement about the existence of purgatory. But if Orthodox teaching is correct and there is no such place as purgatory then how could there be indulgences (in the way indulgences are understood in the west)?
What is your take on it?
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I see it more as splitting hairs. Purgatory just makes so much sense. Otherwise, as awful and sinful as I am, I could be rubbing elbows with John Wesley and John Paul II immediately afer I draw my last. As great as that would be, I don’t think its going to happen that soon.
 
JonNC said:
I think an even more intriguing question is: Would ML accept the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification as a breakthrough, or as baloney.

Jon
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Indeed. Now THERE’s an interesting question 🙂
 
I wonder what his take on Nazism would be. Some of the stuff he said sounds similar to what Hitler said.
 
tiemry said:
Actually he’d probably be a cafeteria catholic:D
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That sounds about right.

I don’t guess anyone has ever had a vision of “Saint Luther” the way they have of St. Augustine and other saints, etc?
 
JonNC said:
Please help me understand where in Luther’s theology you see support for the above three items.
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By the phrase “Giving birth” means starting the protestant movement which grew from Germany and picked up by all denominations and sects.

After the 95 Theses were published how many protestant denominations until today allow gay marriage, euthanasia, abortion, etc?
 
Prime said:
By the phrase “Giving birth” means starting the protestant movement which grew from Germany and picked up by all denominations and sects.

After the 95 Theses were published how many protestant denominations until today allow gay marriage, euthanasia, abortion, etc?
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I assume you have an answer. I suspect a tiny few, and none that I know of are connected to Lutheranism. For example, The Episcopal Church, which has sanctioned openly gay clergy, is Anglican, not Lutheran.
If all those denoms and sects were Lutheran, those three issues would not be an issue.

Jon
 
SIA said:
Would Luther be in one of the three branches of the Lutheran church or would he be elsewhere?
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He would be in the Catholic church from whence he started. He’d realize what a terrible mistake he had made…😦
 
OneTrueCathApos said:
He would be in the Catholic church from whence he started. He’d realize what a terrible mistake he had made…😦
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Well-said. Luther’d freak seeing women ministers, people sympathetic to abortion, promise-keepers and most of all, birth control! Luther railed against birth control so protestantism wouldn’t be an option. Once he saw popes like Benedict XVI and John Paul II, his faith in the papacy would be restored. He’d sit down with Scott Hahn and the gang and all would be good again… 🙂
 
SIA said:
Would Luther be in one of the three branches of the Lutheran church or would he be elsewhere?
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He would return to the Roman Catholic Church. He sees now how wrong he was. If he had been patient and more humble, and not so morbidly preoccupied with his own salvation, he could have remained in the Church and help orchestrate the spiritual revival that took place during the Counter-Reformation by the inspiration of the mendicant orders. Spiritually the Roman Catholic Church was at its all-time low at the time of the Reformation. The corrupt elements in the Roman Curia and among clerics had much to do with inciting what could be described as a religious revolution.
 
JonNC said:
I assume you have an answer. I suspect a tiny few, and none that I know of are connected to Lutheranism. For example, The Episcopal Church, which has sanctioned openly gay clergy, is Anglican, not Lutheran.
If all those denoms and sects were Lutheran, those three issues would not be an issue.

Jon
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If I sounded accusatory, I apologize.

However we cannot dismiss the historical reality:
We all know who they are and unfortunately they sprung from one original schism that originated in Wittenberg.
 
Say what you like - or what you have been told - but Martin Luther will be in heaven or hell - maybe purgatory like the rest of us… Why are you guys so resentful and dismissive of a man of god. Please get over a natural evolution of religious thought and outgrowth. The Mother Church is and always will remain. It was an action that given the times seemed like it had to happen. Reach out in good faith and dialogue with these “protestants” that left. Before we do that, read the CC and other Vatican documents about those others who are outside of the catholic church and practice christianity and who are in Christ and fellowship with Him. This is not the Middle Ages. I am glad the Pope finally forgave - who was it = Gallileo, right? Alot of mistakes were made back then.
 
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