Where would Martin Luther go to church if he came back today?

[Zooey]

A lot of folks mellow with age. Plus… the state of the Church has changed a whole lot in 500 years. I think Luther would be amazed in some ways, and disappointed in others.

Plus… he could take lithium for his bipolar disorder. Who knows what he’d be like?

Luke, my brother,:grouphug: , but Luther had a bigtime case of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.
Bipolar? Maybe…But the PTSD was the biggie…He never really got past the Survivor’s Guilt from not having died of the Black Plague while all those people around him were dropping like flies.

(United Methodists:tiphat: :tiphat: ] seem to make a habit of Practicing Medicine Without A License).

 

[LutheranDK]

Luke, my brother,:grouphug: , but Luther had a bigtime case of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.
Bipolar? Maybe…But the PTSD was the biggie…He never really got past the Survivor’s Guilt from not having died of the Black Plague while all those people around him were dropping like flies.

(United Methodists:tiphat: :tiphat: ] seem to make a habit of Practicing Medicine Without A License).

Uhm…you DO know that the black plague predated the Reformation with more than a century and a half, right?

 

[ferdie]

I think he’ll love the internent. But he will be so shocked that he will run back to the church seeing:

how the church reformed itself
how this 21st century pope is different from his 16th century pope
how much divisive his 16th century doctrine is
how the protestant allowed contraception in 1933
how some fundamentalists ordain women
how irreverent some are towards the Blessed Mother
etc, etc, etc.

 

[JonNC]

If I sounded accusatory, I apologize.

However we cannot dismiss the historical reality:
We all know who they are and unfortunately they sprung from one original schism that originated in Wittenberg.

I didn’t think you were accusatory, not in the least. I apologise if my post made you feel that way. I really thought you had a list of denoms that support abortion, gay marriage, and euthanasia, and really was looking forward to seeing it.

Whatever the roots of the liberal protestants of whom you speak - and many of them would not claim Luther - your blaming him is guilt by (distant) association.

And how much blame does Rome deserve for its participation in the schism that originated in Wittenburg?

Blessings,
Jon

 

[JonNC]

I think he’ll love the internent. But he will be so shocked that he will run back to the church seeing:

how the church reformed itself
how this 21st century pope is different from his 16th century pope
how much divisive his 16th century doctrine is
how the protestant allowed contraception in 1933
how some fundamentalists ordain women
how irreverent some are towards the Blessed Mother
etc, etc, etc.

In some ways, you might be right. But would he accept the JDDJ? If not, I think the doctrine of justification would still be a big stumbling block.

Jon

 

[ferdie]

In some ways, you might be right. But would he accept the JDDJ? If not, I think the doctrine of justification would still be a big stumbling block.

Jon

I see no reason why he wouldn’t accept it. I think he’ll be happy to embrace it.

 

[Prime]

I didn’t think you were accusatory, not in the least. I apologise if my post made you feel that way. I really thought you had a list of denoms that support abortion, gay marriage, and euthanasia, and really was looking forward to seeing it.

Whatever the roots of the liberal protestants of whom you speak - and many of them would not claim Luther - your blaming him is guilt by (distant) association.

And how much blame does Rome deserve for its participation in the schism that originated in Wittenburg?

Blessings,
Jon

If I were a pentcostal or evangelical denom, I can’t possibly trace the origin of my church outside of protestant movement, unless it sprung suddenly from nowhere (which is the case of some).

Blaming Rome is like blaming the baby that was thrown down the window together with the bath water!

 

[Zooey]

Uhm…you DO know that the black plague predated the Reformation with more than a century and a half, right?

Yes, I do know that. However, there were recurrent outbreaks that followed. One of these happened in Germany in Luther’s lifetime. He watched helplessly while people died, no doubt thinking that this, like the great earlier outbreak, might sweep through all of Europe.
Luther had also been an abused child. He ran to the religious life as a retreat from abuse, not as a true vocation.The sight of folks dying around him made him question the safety he imagined he had found in becoming a monk. From there, to seeing [his time’s] current events as proof of some kind of divine curse on the world, was a small step.
Seeing Luther as a deeply disturbed individual, I can understand much about him that had always bewildered me. He seemed to see the fulfillment of all his fears, & tried to create a safe place for himself. He ended by dividing Christendom into bits & pieces…bringing us full circle to the original subject of this thread…

 

[SSTeacher]

Uhm…you DO know that the black plague predated the Reformation with more than a century and a half, right?

Yes, I do know that. However, there were recurrent outbreaks that followed. One of these happened in Germany in Luther’s lifetime. He watched helplessly while people died, no doubt thinking that this, like the great earlier outbreak, might sweep through all of Europe.
Luther had also been an abused child. He ran to the religious life as a retreat from abuse, not as a true vocation.The sight of folks dying around him made him question the safety he imagined he had found in becoming a monk. From there, to seeing [his time’s] current events as proof of some kind of divine curse on the world, was a small step.
Seeing Luther as a deeply disturbed individual, I can understand much about him that had always bewildered me. He seemed to see the fulfillment of all his fears, & tried to create a safe place for himself. He ended by dividing Christendom into bits & pieces…bringing us full circle to the original subject of this thread…

Hi Zooey,

Your take is very interesting. I hope you won’t mind my asking but where did you get this information from?

Curiously,
Mick

 

[puzzleannie]

I wonder what his take on Nazism would be. Some of the stuff he said sounds similar to what Hitler said.

you cannot make such a claim without a source even if some of our speculation here is light-hearted, we still have to follow the basic rules of apologetics

 

[Zooey]

Hi Zooey,

Your take is very interesting. I hope you won’t mind my asking but where did you get this information from?

Curiously,
Mick

We had a whole thread about this, over in the Philosophy forum, some months ago.
Several people (notabley Ani Ibi) had put together the information about Luther’s life. He seems to have been a very unhappy & confused man…I am sure that a search in philosophy should turn it up.
It really gave me a different view of the man.

 

[brownjt]

We had a whole thread about this, over in the Philosophy forum, some months ago.
Several people (notabley Ani Ibi) had put together the information about Luther’s life. He seems to have been a very unhappy & confused man…I am sure that a search in philosophy should turn it up.
It really gave me a different view of the man.

Any documentation on this! Maybe he was unhappy with Catholicism…? There is a thread on this right now in another forum (Can catholicism trigger depression) I do not mean it in THAT way per se, but please everytime I hear a good word about Luther, catholics may be inclined to say…“that was written by a protestant…”. Who is the source of this and where did it come from. Maybe true, no one is perfect, Neither have been some of the medieval Popes either:blush:

 

[bpcatholic]

you cannot make such a claim without a source even if some of our speculation here is light-hearted, we still have to follow the basic rules of apologetics

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_their_Lies#cite_note-31

 

[grampben]

Where would Luther go to church if he came back today?

No where. He’d go off and start his own…again! Maybe he’d call it, “the Lutheran, no really, the Lutheran, I really mean Lutheran, just Lutheran but really Lutheran Church,” this time. Heh.

He didn’t even want his beliefs to be known as ‘Lutheran’. Would you like it if someone made fun of the origins of your faith?

 

[grampben]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_their_Lies#cite_note-31

Anti-semitism was culturally acceptable in Europe at this time, and it existed in serious forms before Luther, even from catholics.

The important thing is that Lutheranism (regardless of which school of thought within it) is built on what they see as biblical teachings, straight from the bible (with the help of confessions), not on the character of their founder.

 

[bpcatholic]

Anti-semitism was culturally acceptable in Europe at this time, and it existed in serious forms before Luther, even from catholics.

The important thing is that Lutheranism (regardless of which school of thought within it) is built on what they see as biblical teachings, straight from the bible (with the help of confessions), not on the character of their founder.

I realise that! I was just wondering what he would think of Nazism (and the Holocaust) if he came back today.