God often brings greatness out of our own faults.
I, for one, count myself as a strong SSPX sympathizer while holding my opinion of some of their overly strict interpretations of theology aside, because of the fact that not only did it take a herculean effort to preserve the Latin Mass though several decades of eclipse, but they have courageously fought against the almost perfect crime of so many in the Church having lied about the Latin Mass supposedly having been “abrogated”. When something is abrogated in Catholic doctrine, it is over-ruled, made obsolete, no longer allowed.
Even more dangerous is willful disobedience. What happened to the power of prayer in matters such as these? Is disobedience the only path?
We as Christians always seem to be forgetting that prayer is our greatest weapon, not the last resort. It is a universal weakness.
For the record, when I say “abrogated” I’m not saying that the Church actually decreed that the TLM was gone for good or anything. I’m merely using it as Mike did in the post below mine to indicate that, in effect, in the years following the implementation of the New Mass, the TLM was gone with a few scattered exceptions.
I too do not consider them pillars even if they may have played a role in the return of the widespread availability of the EF. The reasoning of doing evil so that good can from of it is dangerous. From a historical perspective, should we admire the protestant reformers who broke from the church in the 16th century because their revolution led to the Catholic Reformation and the Council of Trent and the repair of abuses that affected the church in those days? I would say not.
Question: Were the SSPX always using the 1962 Missal? Or were they using the 65 Missal or 67 Missal or even 57 Missal until JPII specified that it was the 1962 Missal that he was indulting? It’s hard to find this information.
And who’d be teaching it? Latin Mass wasn’t taught in most seminaries after 1970. The older teachers either died off or plain gave up teaching the Latin Mass. You lose the continuity, eventually it will be completely forgotten. Heck, it’s still hasn’t been fully restored and it probably never will.
You have THREE!?!? That’s awesome!The Apostolic Letter “Ecclesia Dei” by Pope John Paul II in 1988, which granted the indult for the Tridentine Mass, was written in response to the SSPX. It was this indult that brought the Tridentine Mass to the local parishes, after much work by those who petitioned for it and with much resistance from most bishops and parish priests.Thus, it is accurate to say that without the SSPX, there would not have been the Tridentine Mass in most parishes, especially before the Summorium Pontificum of Pope Benedict XVI.
Having fought for five years to bring the Indult to the Knoxville, TN diocese, I know whereof I speak. Even today, there are only three parishes in this diocese that offer the Mass of All Time.
) and they want to return to a solemn, reverant, and respectful Mass setting, which they find in these Chapels…so to condemn a whole group of people on the actions of a handful of Bishops and call them evil or any less Catholic is just not very charitable and it sickens me that the same people doing it have a higher level of tolerance for the liberals and modernists (who are actually destroying our Church–only difference is no one in the Church hierarchy has the minerals to put a stop to it) and they also have an affection for protestants…what gives???
post schism they are just that, schismatics. But if we assume (as I believe) that God desires the spread of orthodoxy and the TLM, its safe to say that it would still be around without them.OK, I’ll pose a question. Where would it have been taught and more importantly who would have taught it? No mainline seminaries wanted anything to do with it. Latin was pretty much dropped as a required subject by the early 70’s and the only Priests besides the SSPX authorized to celebrate it were all old, quite old in most cases and would have soon been gone. Since there would have been no place to teach it, no Priests trained in it and almost all Bishops opposed to it, where would it have survived? And how would it have survived? In old archival footage and in a few books? If you were not around in those days you cannot in any way imagine the hostility and even hatred that spewed forth at the mere idea of the Traditional Mass. It was seen as an impediment to progressive thought and liturgy, totally incompatible with ecumenism and a throwback to the dark winter that apparently existed prior to Vatican II. The only thing that kept it going in those dreary, dark, and they were dark, days was the SSPX
They were just the big story of the traditionalist movement, not the only players in it. A far more holy example would be Una Voce who unlike the SSPX actually did remain obedient to the church from their founding onward.
When the Seminary was founded in Econe priests who taught and visited used the Missal that they felt most attached to, some used the pre '55 Rubrics, others the '62 still others the '65 and the '70. The first several years Archbishop Lefebvre had not issues with Seminarians attending the Novus Ordo either in the Seminary Chapel, or when they were on holiday. His intent at first was for his newly minted priests to be incardinated into any diocese that would take them.
I defy you or anyone to show me where the TLM was abrogated.
If I am not mistaken, Una Voce is a lay organization, correct? How could they have celebrated it, taught it or kept it going? They may have kept interest in it alive to a small degree amongst the laity and that is highly debatable, but what about the Priesthood? T Remember there was no internet so getting the message out would have been and apparently was quite difficult. I personally never even heard of them until around the time of the indult and I was pretty active in trying to find Traditional Masses in those days. The Church certainly didn’t advertise the fact that a lay organization such as Una Voce existed. The fact remains there would have been none or very few qualified priests to celebrate the Traditional Mass were it not for the SSPX. In fact, many if not most of the first priests that celebrated the Traditional Mass after the indult were SSPX Priests, former SSPX Priests and older Priests brought out of retirement. Precious few new Priests were involved at all.
Let’s not forget about the “Agatha Christie Indult” and others who around the world both supported the preservation of the older rites, while remaining within communion with the local Ordinary and Holy See. While I believe that with or without the SSPX, the old rites would have survived by God’s grace. I also believe from the conversations I’ve had with many priests both those who offer the New and Old Rites, who were ordained before 1965, that there were many priests who offered the Mass by rote. I’ve spoken to priest (even in the SSPX) who had competitions to see who could say Mass the fastest, and know/knew a few who would sneak out and smoke a cigarette during the Gloria, at a Solemn Mass. So the liturgical wasteland that some have imposed over the past 40 years may in fact revived a Rite and Church that was (as it has over 2000 years) had periods of great faith, and times of spiritual sloth. Cooperating with God’s grace, I think (hope and pray) the resurgence of interest in rediscovering the old rites, will bring a true springtime of faith, and will have a beneficial influence on the new rites too.