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Big_Ro
Guest
ditto
"WHERE'S THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE? The Case that Barack Obama is not Eligible to be President."
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silentstar
Guest
As a librarian (I have an MS in library science) I agree with you. I don’t like the precedent this sets for release of private information. Currently birth certificates and other vital records are protected. This impacts genealogical research among other things - those records do eventually become available but there is a specified waiting period and I think it’s never during the individual’s life. Pressure on people to release records could move to private citizens being pushed to have our birth certificates and if social security records ever get challenged, identity theft which is already high could explode.
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seekerz
Guest
Will see if I can get my hands on it. Meantime, back to the present where modern documents do exist for the purposes of vetting candidates (and for challenging eligibility in court) before they are elected to the highest office in the land, not for distasteful displays long after the fact…
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kimmielittle
Guest
Because Mr. Obama chose to allow it to raise doubts And used public / Government funds / time / resources to keep the doubts alive.
The Truth is - Mr. Obama knew he was causing doubts - chose to ignore - even spending tax money to fuel those who questioned via - court actions ].
Surely, as a supporter of Mr Obama you aren’t suggesting that Mr. Obama didn’t know that he was fueling doubts?
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seekerz
Guest
Lo, now he doth control their minds as well…whither the source of this man’s unnatural pow’r?Because Mr. Obama chose to allow it to raise doubts And used public / Government funds / time / resources to keep the doubts alive.
The Truth is - Mr. Obama knew he was causing doubts - chose to ignore - even spending tax money to fuel those who questioned via - court actions ].
Surely, as a supporter of Mr Obama you aren’t suggesting that Mr. Obama didn’t know that he was fueling doubts?
I get it ok, as long as he draws breath every truth we can’t stand to look at will be his fault.
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kimmielittle
Guest
Could you please show that this set’s precedent?
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kimmielittle
Guest
Hmmmmmmmmm…to be honest…I would be hard pressed to find truth with this administration.
Maybe, you can…but I’m at a loss
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Raskolnikov
Guest
Yes, this is the same paradox that every conspiracy theory ultimately runs into. How can the malevolent powers that be (in this case Obama) at the same time be so clever, manipulative and ingenius, while also being utterly and completely inept? I can hardly believe both at the same time. It was the same with Bush of course. Sorry, but they have to choose, is he (Bush, Obama, or whoever) an evil genius or a pathetic dunce? Can’t be both.
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seekerz
Guest
The much contested document released yesterday for one…but I wasn’t talking about this administration I was referring to truth in general as in the realities around us, some of which we would -]sail/-] swim around the world and back again rather than confront.Hmmmmmmmmm…to be honest…I would be hard pressed to find truth with this administration.
Maybe, you can…but I’m at a loss
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Big_Ro
Guest
I want to say this as charitably as possible. To suggest that the President “chose” the short form is inaccurate. During the campaign of 2008, Mr. Obama’s eligibility for the office was brought in to question. In repsonse, he requested a copy of his BC through the normal legal channels provided by the then laws of the State of Hawaii. The State Department of Health released the same document that they would release to any person making a similar request. He received the so called short form. I have not seen any evidence that a person making this type of request gets a “choice”. It has been asserted by two Governors, one Republican and one Democratic, and a current and former head of the Hawaii Department of Health, one a Republican, that this is the normal and legal method for responding to such a request and that the release of the so called long form is not allowed. I am aware that certain posters have provided “evidence” in the form of a link that would seem to refute this. I will leave it up to the readers to decide whether the assertions of the State Officials charged with handling these matters in Hawaii or the assertions of a poster on this thread as being more authoritative. I know that there are many on these forums that posses the accumen and expertise to address such matters and assume that the poster of whom I speak is also possesed with such accumen. I am providing the poster with the benefit of the doubt. And, I believe that the method that the Presdient used to obtain the document supports the idea that it was not allowed because he had to get an exception to the law.
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silentstar
Guest
It doesn’t set any legal precedent yet, but it sets an example that due to Obama’s position is high-visibility.
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kimmielittle
Guest
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seekerz
Guest
I’m with you completely - with regards to Bush as well. Now if we were talking government “handouts”, the concept of personal responsibility would permeate the thread but alas, we are merely discussing the citizenship of the country’s highest office holder.
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seekerz
Guest
You can interpret it anyway you like: upside down, downside up, long form, short form, holographic form…From a purely subjective point of view, truth is to a large extent as you perceive it to be.C’mon
How can I not take this as referring to the Obama administration?
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JHow
Guest
But this is where the fudging comes in on the part of Obama. Despite his and his lawyer’s claims in the letter requesting the “long form” I don’t believe that Hawaii made an exception in his case when they provided the long form. I believe that the person whom the record is concerned with has a right to receive the full record from the Dept. of Health, and that when you request this, the Dept. will provide it. It may be true that the default is to provide just the “short form”, but claims that Obama couldn’t get the long form are incorrect - the chief evidence for this is the document produced yesterday. By sending his lawyer, with his permission, the Dept. promptly coughed up the long form.
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JHow
Guest
Oh, Okay. The HI Dept. of Health has added some stuff since I last looked.
hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/Policy_Memo_5_15_2001.PDF
I guess they did have a policy to only give out short forms.
This is not the standard in most states I have dealt with for genealogical records, so I didn’t expect that.
I still don’t think that by law (as opposed to policy) they could prevent you from getting the full form. This policy would be prohibitive to conducting useful genealogical research, IMO.
hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/Policy_Memo_5_15_2001.PDF
I guess they did have a policy to only give out short forms.
This is not the standard in most states I have dealt with for genealogical records, so I didn’t expect that.
I still don’t think that by law (as opposed to policy) they could prevent you from getting the full form. This policy would be prohibitive to conducting useful genealogical research, IMO.
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Big_Ro
Guest
There is, of course, always room for error or misunderstanding and I am not immune. The thing I keep coming back to is that the officials elected and appointed have attested to the so called fact in writing. If they are lying or perpetrating a fraud through their official office it would probably be a crime. So, I would have to believe that the Republican Governor and Republican Health Dept head risked some sort of censure in order to participate in a fraud and conspiracy to hide Obama’s place of birth or citizenship. You are, of course, welcome to believe whatever you like and I mean that in all sincerity. It just seems so much more plausible that they were telling the truth. And, BTW, the “fact” that the so called short form is the only allowable document that can be released without a special exemption has been asserted by various news organizations repeatedly. So, I would further have to believe that they too have been duped or are simply part and parcel of the massive conspiracy and aren’t capable of disproving this “fact” through research. The problem with conspiracies is that ultimately someone talks. Where is the whistle blower?
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gilliam
Guest
There is no formal process.
That is what is trying to be defined by the different states issuing bills now. Unfortunately in this climate, they are not likely to get passed.
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kimmielittle
Guest
Notice the dates:
Note you will have to open the links to see the "hrscurrant’ address in your browser ]
Friday, December 03, 2010 8:12 AM 4934 HRS_0338-0013.htm
Notice the web title here “hrscurrant”
capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/
Notice the title here “hrscurrant”
capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0013.htm
Notice the date on the memorandum 5_15_2001.
It would seem to me that §338-13 is CURRANT LAW
And the memorandum 5_15_2001…is not LAW.
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cradlecatholic5
Guest
He produced his birth certificate.
Enough already! I agree w/ him saying “we have waaaay more important things to deal with in this country”
Enough already! I agree w/ him saying “we have waaaay more important things to deal with in this country”
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