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seekerz
Guest
What does that resemblance or lack thereof have to do with eligibility for the presidency (or with transparency in government or whatever the watchword of the day is)?
"WHERE'S THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE? The Case that Barack Obama is not Eligible to be President."
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OrdinaryMelkite
Guest
I just got back to CAF after a coupledays of traveling-------so I’m (of course) WAY late for this (as usual)
I have some questions-----and they have already been answered, all I can say is that I’m not trough reading the thread:
- If the document was scanned using OCR then the “layers” would have searchable text. They do not. The different objects are images and not text.
- The whole issue of the name of the hospital before 1978 has NOT been answered satisfactorily.
- The term “African,” was not used in connection to black people in birth certificates until(really) the 1980’s. In the 1960s-----REALLY? would have been more like “Negro.”
- Obama supposedly found his birth certificate inside a book early in his book Dreams From My Father. If that is just a copy, where is the original?
- Shouldn’t it say Barry Soetoro instead of Barack Obama? Obama’s mother and father were never married.
I will say this--------IF (again, IF) the document is fake it was very sloppily done and insulting to one’s intelligence.
I will also say that I ALSO think that IF the document is fake we the American Public will never know for certain. Whatever cover-up has happened, it is in full swing right now----and the media is “satisfied” and it and Trump will not pursue the matter any longer. Too bad. I really hope it DOES continue.
Sorry to all you “let it go” people. Hopefully, this is not over by a long shot. Hopefully.
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ChristIsTheWay
Guest
It would be helpful to clarify a bit. This thread is over sixty pages long. I simply do not remember what everyone has said or is referring to, especially since I made the poor decision to jump in toward the end. That, of course, doesn’t mean I haven’t been following along, as others have asked.
Good to hear.
You error in thinking I assume such a thing. I do not.
I am aware of that. I just fail to grasp the “lack of transparency” because the president has been reluctant to indulge the absurd fantasies of the birthers and other conspiracy theorists. Of course, you’ve explained your concerns before, as well “constitutional ramifications.” I just don’t believe any of them are serious or legitimate. Sorry.
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Sonic
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You are certainly entitled to your opinions.
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OrdinaryMelkite
Guest
But the question is…WHY not just release the certificage two years ago and get it over with?
Obama could have avoided a lot of speculation and grief over this if he had just relased the BC two years ago. Why drag it out?
I get it…
He did not do it because he felt it would feed into the OBVIOUSLY RACIST “absurd fantasies” of us “birthers,” did he?
I guess me and others like me need to leave the country----since obviously racist people
don’t belong in this country, right?
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Bev17243
Guest
these are the reasons why so many people, who are not “wackos” or "conspiracy theorists"btw, are questioning what is going on here. If he produced his bc when first asked, this wouldn’t be happening. If he doesn’t have the original(lost it, whatever) why not just say so? And FYI, what he produced just now-its NOT an original. This is what State of Hawaii claims to have on file. People want to see actual old, worn out original from 40 +years ago, and this new item is not it. And correct me if i’m wrong(and i couldb e wrong here) but from my understanding, both father and mother have to be US citizens for Obama to qualify for presidency. Was his father US citizen?I just got back to CAF after a coupledays of traveling-------so I’m (of course) WAY late for this (as usual)
I have some questions-----and they have already been answered, all I can say is that I’m not trough reading the thread:
Those are some of the questions I have.
- If the document was scanned using OCR then the “layers” would have searchable text. They do not. The different objects are images and not text.
- The whole issue of the name of the hospital before 1978 has NOT been answered satisfactorily.
- The term “African,” was not used in connection to black people in birth certificates until(really) the 1980’s. In the 1960s-----REALLY? would have been more like “Negro.”
- Obama supposedly found his birth certificate inside a book early in his book Dreams From My Father. If that is just a copy, where is the original?
- Shouldn’t it say Barry Soetoro instead of Barack Obama? Obama’s mother and father were never married.
I will say this--------IF (again, IF) the document is fake it was very sloppily done and insulting to one’s intelligence.
I will also say that I ALSO think that IF the document is fake we the American Public will never know for certain. Whatever cover-up has happened, it is in full swing right now----and the media is “satisfied” and it and Trump will not pursue the matter any longer. Too bad. I really hope it DOES continue.
Sorry to all you “let it go” people. Hopefully, this is not over by a long shot. Hopefully.
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SwizzleStick
Guest
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OrdinaryMelkite
Guest
No, but if he was born in the US, it would be irrelevant. As far as I know, this is according to a 1986 revision. If one applies this retroactively to someone born pre-1986, and if the new law does not cover folk born before 1986, THEn we could have a problem.
If I’m wrong by any of this, by all means someone correct me.
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ManOnFire
Guest
Well here’s a youtube video that shows layers of the certificate:
conservativeactionalerts.com/blog_post/show/2468
conservativeactionalerts.com/blog_post/show/2468
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OrdinaryMelkite
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Yes, we do need someone who REALLY knows aboiut OCR.
As to the comment about the certificate being lost----could be, indeed------although I must say that would be a “very” unfortunate circumstance----don’t you think?
Given trying to reconnect with his totally absent father was part of what Obama’s “journey” was all about.
As to the name of the hospital-----Ok----------for now. I’m sorry, but that does not quite sit right with me. MY opinion, of course.
OK as to the Soetoro name-------I’ll take that.
I don’t think even in Hawaii was the term “African” used in those days. The whole “African-American” and “African” designation did not really come about until the 1980’s. Certainly not in the American South or Middle America, where barry’s mother was from.
But like I said-----we’ll prbabyl never really know the truth. Ibguess the MSM and the powers that be do not want to know. IF this is a “conspiracy.”
Oh well.
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ChristIsTheWay
Guest
Honestly, because he probably didn’t think it was relevant or that more a small fringe wanted him to provide “proof” of his citizenship. If I had been in his shoes, I would have done the same thing and I am a white guy from the Midwest. Unless it is a governmental or elections body that is asking me for proof of citizenship, I would not feel compelled to do anything. I would also imagine he never seriously considered that two years from now, it would have grown into such a controversial issue. I certainly wouldn’t have.
There you go, inventing a straw man. I have not accused anyone of racism nor do I believe that racism is the motive behind this issue. However, I do believe the idea that President Obama is a foreigner that managed to fool all the right people into thinking he is an American citizen. That is absurd and it is a fantasy. As for those who are concerned about the issue of transparency and constitutionalism, and not citizenship, I feel they are making a mountain out of an ant hill. That is not to say the Obama administration doesn’t have transparency or constitutional issues. I just don’t feel this is one of them.
Please, stop putting words in my mouth and inventing straw man arguments. There are some people who just don’t think this is an important or serious issue. I can see you probably disagree. But don’t be dishonest and misrepresent my position.I guess me and others like me need to leave the country----since obviously racist people
don’t belong in this country, right?
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seekerz
Guest
I’m fascinated today with the number of posters who can read Obama’s mind, tell us what he felt or feels and why he did or did not do things…With such amazing powers you’d a thunk they could just have intuitively known the contents of that infamous long form birth certificate…just saying.But the question is…WHY not just release the certificage two years ago and get it over with?
Obama could have avoided a lot of speculation and grief over this if he had just relased the BC two years ago. Why drag it out?
I get it…
He did not do it because he felt it would feed into the OBVIOUSLY RACIST “absurd fantasies” of us “birthers,” did he?
I guess me and others like me need to leave the country----since obviously racist people
don’t belong in this country, right?
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OrdinaryMelkite
Guest
Thanks for that, ManOnFire!!!
And yes, given that TheSmokingGun is not genrally “friendly” towards birthers, it is certainly notable that even they have questions.
And the questions the site asks are certainly are legitimate.
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seekerz
Guest
I believe the term ‘African’ has been in use since the days some Europeans sailed around that cape whatcha-may-call-it and happened upon the parts of the continent hitherto unexplored by them, but I may be wrong. (Northern African nations like Ethiopia and Egypt were of course known to them long before). I would be surprised if that term was not used in Hawaii then because from the days of the slave trade (and even today) very many non-Africans couldn’t be bothered to refer to specific countries and referred simply to Africa.
As to the rest, I’ll leave you to figure it out…two other posters seemed quite proud of themselves for putting the hospital issue-of-no-known-origin to bed - I dunno, something about Google books and debunking a myth. Not sure they ever answered the who, what or why of this myth’s creation, but there you have it - the best I can do to ease your expressed concerns…
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OrdinaryMelkite
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I’m not saying that I know the contents of Obama’s mind or that I have the ability to know the contents of that birth certificate, Seekerz.
I’m just asking the questions that me and a lot of other Americans (some of them Democrats who actually voted for Obama, believe it or not) are asking. Nothing wrong with that, is it not?
Or are you saying that I have no right to speculate any further? The “proof” is out, so whatever “discrepancies, questions, and loose ends” come out of that revelation me and others have no right to ask anymore about?
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Sonic
Guest
If I highlight your choice of words, then who is responsible for writing them. Me or you? I do not write your posts for you, and I made no comment about them. You are entitled to your opinions. I am not misrepresenting your arguments. You are projecting.
Okay… we’re done. You’ve been carefully inserting arguments in reply to my posts in an attempt to get me to argue with you for the sake of arguing.
I submit the following posts to show the escalation and interjection on your part…
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=7813097&postcount=892
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=7813128&postcount=897
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=7813213&postcount=905
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=7813487&postcount=916
For example… I posted this comment as an explanation of a position.
You then replied:
You subtly projected yourself into the discussion as if the comment was directed toward you in an accusatory context. It was not directed toward you, and no such accusation was made toward you. You have done this several times through the discussion.
I haven’t got time to spend verbally fencing with you. So, I’m putting an end to this. Let’s let things be.
I’m putting you on my ignore list. Please do not reply to any more of my posts as I will no longer be able see any of your posts. Therefore, it will be futile for you to attempt to continue this discussion.
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seekerz
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My post was a simple observation that you seem to be able to tell what he feels and link those detected feelings to what he does.I’m not saying that I know the contents of Obama’s mind or that I have the ability to know the contents of that birth certificate, Seekerz.
I’m just asking the questions that me and a lot of other Americans (some of them Democrats who actually voted for Obama, believe it or not) are asking. Nothing wrong with that, is it not?
Or are you saying that I have no right to speculate any further? The “proof” is out, so whatever “discrepancies, questions, and loose ends” come out of that revelation me and others have no right to ask anymore about?
This is what you said: " He did not do it because he felt it would feed into the OBVIOUSLY RACIST “absurd fantasies” of us “birthers,” did he?" (emphasis mine).
As for the rest of your post, you are free to ask whatever you like and the president is free to ignore you. What does do his answers matter anyway, since you can tell what he feels?
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OrdinaryMelkite
Guest
Unfortunately, a lot of folks in the “anti-birther” side HAVE made accusations like that. Yahoo News even had an article there todaybasically questioning whether some birthers were motivated by a hidden, unacknowledged racism regarding our commander in chief.
Look, ChristInTheWay, I regret and am sorry if I gave the impression that I think that you think I’m a racist-----but it is really ridiculous to imply that simply because folks question certain things that Obama has done in his lifeand whether he has been honest about it is “ridiculous” really gets to me.
And may God forgive for that, too.
And the mocking, almost “bully-like” tone of some in the media and the public that basically says “whatever your questions still are, they are answered now. Drop it and drop it now” really is insulting. And no, I’m not saying you are one of those. But a lot of critics of the birth certificate questioners have that attitude.
As to the “why did he not do this two years ago,” that may be true, but A) these are not stupid questions, ChristIsTheWay. And I would feel the same way about Dubya. This is about whether or not a public official has been honest and forthcoming about his background and his eligibility to be commander-in-chief to this country. B) For two years he chose not to release this—and that is his right. But that does not mean he is exempt form people wondering about his reluctance. He is not some private Hollywood celebrity, now. He is the leader of the free world and the most powerful man on earth.
But yes---------
Again, I’m sorry if I gave off that impression that I think you think I’m racist. but I just think that this saying that people who question Obama’s birth certificate are all working until partisan people making ridiculous accusations simply to throw Obama out of office is itself ridiculous. And a lot of people in that side of the aisle think that. Not you, again. Me and other are just rodinary americans who demand honesty, accountibility and respect for the country, the rule of law and its applications from their elected officials.
And yes, some in the “birther” movement may have less-than-honest motives, but I’m confident in saying those are in the distinct minority. And most of us would do the same for a President on the other sie of the political aisle.
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OrdinaryMelkite
Guest
Ok, I was ASSUMING he thought that. Mostly, i was being somewhat snarky to ChristInTheWay about his idea that it the questions our side has are “ridiculous,” or somewhat to that effect. I already responded to that in the post above mine.
Althoug, to be honest------aren’t YOU assuming that I thought I knew what Obama thought when I made that sentence?
believe, it was basically a combination of snark, frustration, and sincere curiosity. Glad to know YOU know what I think.
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seekerz
Guest
Gotta love that signature…so I gather divorce and cheating show and ideological divide??
Sorry, off topic I know.
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