Which Church is God's true Church, and why? Is it the Roman Catholic Church?

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Wow, gurneyhalleck1, what a story!

If you ever doubt the Church again, contact me (I’m sure BlestOne won’t mind) and we can help you.

Good think you came back! Phew!

BlestOne is right-God doesn’t give up on us.

If you really do start to feel down/depressed (either you or your wife), watch this video:

youtube.com/watch?v=JJoNIT13Ckg

Welcome back!! 👍 🙂 😃
 
Hi Blest,

I have been around here a lot lately actually. Honestly, I went away for a while to the Anglican Church, my old parish, frustrated with the silly things. My wife and I had struggled with NFP and our priests wouldn’t get back to us, we’d felt that our parish had lousy pastoral care, and I got down on Catholicism. My wife did, too. We wanted to do what we wanted without rules and to feel affirmed in our own ideaology. So we left. When we went to the old Anglican parish we left, after a few weeks, we realized we were not in the Church at all. We were NOT IN A church at all, we were with a bunch of kind-hearted, caring, and yet misguided folks. When we heard the talk of “women priests” and the attitude that Anglicans have toward authority and obedience, etc. we realized how insane we were to be there. We also noticed that every ex-Catholic there was just a refugee from authority. Some wanted to divorce and remarry so they went Anglican. Some wanted to cohabitate, so they went Anglican. Some wanted to use birth control. Some wanted lady priests, some wanted no pope. But I noticed none of them went there LOOKING for something, but rather running from something. Then it dawned on me, SO WERE WE! We were in a “Quo Vadis” moment, running from Christ’s will to a place where we thought we could have the outward Catholic liturgy with a “hey man, no hangups” theology. In the end, both of us decided to RUN BACK to Rome at 100mph. We went to confession a few weeks ago and praise God I am more thankful for authority and Peter running the show than ever!

I’ve been protestant twice, and both times the Holy Spirit told my wife and I we were on a dark path. This time we’re here for good. I’m more on fire for my Catholic faith than ever and more sure than ever that it’s the real deal.

I feel so sad that I ever doubted her (the Church) but I’m sure glad to be home!
gurneyhalleck-- someone that I enjoy calling my friend,

It is wonderful to see you on fire for your faith! What a blessing indeed!

Well friend, the highlighted part of your post brought to mind a great saying that I heard and I wanted to share it with you…

“If you have gone to another vineyard to serve God, do that and do it well. Stop throwing dead cats over the fences of our vineyard!”

God Bless!
 
Wow, gurneyhalleck1, what a story!

If you ever doubt the Church again, contact me (I’m sure BlestOne won’t mind) and we can help you.

Good think you came back! Phew!

BlestOne is right-God doesn’t give up on us.

If you really do start to feel down/depressed (either you or your wife), watch this video:

youtube.com/watch?v=JJoNIT13Ckg

Welcome back!! 👍 🙂 😃
coolduude, I was quite surprised when you said you were 15 years old. You are a very intelligent man and a good defender of the faith. To be that young and to know the truth with your tenacity is truly a gift from God. And thanks for watching my back when avenger was here.
(hint…) Remember on youtube Reformer82? :rolleyes: 😃 😉
 
gurneyhalleck-- someone that I enjoy calling my friend,

It is wonderful to see you on fire for your faith! What a blessing indeed!

Well friend, the highlighted part of your post brought to mind a great saying that I heard and I wanted to share it with you…

“If you have gone to another vineyard to serve God, do that and do it well. Stop throwing dead cats over the fences of our vineyard!”

God Bless!
Hey Jane,

Am I to glean that you mean that I can’t criticize the Anglican Church now that I’m comfortably back at home with the Catholic Church? LOL…I would never throw dead cats anywhere. I’m a big animal lover. I have two cats and a dog. I might throw a dead rat, though or some sort of carcass but never a cat. Big cat lover LOL…

I’m just telling people my journey and what I saw as an Anglican. It always seems they are retreating from Rome’s morality and trying to write their own ticket. That’s just what I’ve seen, heard, and know. In fact, the Anglican priest that came to our house told us, direct quote, “most Catholics that come to us are divorcees that have remarried and want to take communion. Many are liberal Catholics that wanted women priests or birth control and many are just protestants and catholics in a marriage who want to meet half-way.”

I’ve heard that and seen it on many many an occasion. The idea of a “via media” became crazy to me after I analyzed it enough. Has Christianity before the early 1500’s EVER been a half-way meeting place of conflicting ideas?

I also was disturbed at the poor catechesis there. I hear so many protestants trash Catholics for being ill-informed about their faith and yet most Catholics I know are much better-informed than the Anglicans I’ve met around here and have spoken with in other forums.

Most Anglicans I’ve met have a jag on for Rome. They are former Catholics who just didn’t like the setup or the theology somewhere but they want to keep the vestments, liturgy, looks, and sounds of Catholicism.

It wasn’t for Kate and I. We just felt that the devil was working in us. Everything we said was all about making life EASIER and more palatable for us. Christianity most definitely is not an easy religion or a faith that can be reconciled with this world. The world we live in right now is full of death, abortion, homosexuality, dubious scientific ethics, cohabitation, lack of respect for marriage, divorce, and hate. What I see in Catholicism is a head-on battle against every one of those issues. Rome has been at the forefront of fighting each one of those sins against Christ while Anglicanism, whether it be the liberal Episcopalian variety or the “conservative” Anglican break-off groups, most of them are yielding and complicite in one of those areas. What I see in “conservative” Anglicanism would be considered liberal in Catholic circles.

I really don’t want to throw “dead cats” over your fence. That’s just my experience and what I see. Kate and I felt a chill in our spines after a few weeks and we feel the Holy Spirit was yanking us with a chain away from our old roots. Like Lot’s wife, one should never look back. We nearly turned to a pillar of salt!😉

What we’ve come to find is that Christianity is about OBEDIENCE. It really is. It’s not about mindless, brainwashed obedience, but obedience to the word of God. I don’t feel Anglicanism is about obedience. It seems more geared toward tailor-making a theological suit that fits the individual. No hang-ups, man! Do what feels right! That kind of stuff.

Like I said, the people were kind, sweet, friendly as heck, caring, and pastorally the parish is strong as heck! The fellowship is superior, the liturgy very beautifully-worded, the songs (I know you hate the 1800’s music, I’m ok with it lol), the style, the organization of the parish, everything there was great.

But even the assistant priest, a Filipino, admitted that he was a life-long Roman Catholic who wanted to be a priest. Problem was, he was married. He wanted both and so he went to Anglicanism to get both. That doesn’t make sense to me? Again, obedience, not getting what we want. My wife, being Filipino, and I felt that this guy was a bit of a sell-out. We thought, “wow, how can a staunch Catholic go Anglican just to be a priest?” and then we realized we were doing THE SAME THING! Just to avoid some teachings of Rome we didn’t like, we ran like heck. Anyway…just my observations…
 
I believe I just did…

I stated:
You wrote:

"“I will tell you this if it were not for the Early Church Fathers who were CATHOLICS who WROTE the SCRIPTURES 300 years or so after Jesus went to Heaven…”

So which is it? Or you cant keep you nonsense straight?

which you then replied…
Question is you tell me?

I answered your question to my question by saying…

Ok, you CANT keep your nonsense straight
So where exactly did I not answer you?
 
avenger;4487096:
I believe I just did…

I stated:
You wrote:

"“I will tell you this if it were not for the Early Church Fathers who were CATHOLICS who WROTE the SCRIPTURES 300 years or so after Jesus went to Heaven…”

So which is it? Or you cant keep you nonsense straight?

which you then replied…
Question is you tell me?

I answered your question to my question by saying…

Ok, you CANT keep your nonsense straight

Avenger, I know what I wrote, the question is you don’t understand the questions I gave to you, nor have your answered all of my questions for there were several and I will rewrite them.

I will make it a little clearer for you to understand by chanaging the word from who"WROTE’’ NT to the word who “COMPILED” the NT. May be this would be easier for you to understand. By the Way “NT” means “New Testament”

Avenger,

You have not answered none of my questions to you.

Tell me how did you come to find his Word that he left you, and how did you come to know His Salvation, and His Love.?

I will tell you this if it were not for the Early Church Fathers who were CATHOLICS who "COMPILED"NT SCRIPTURES 300 years or so after Jesus went to Heaven. Avenger, you would not have known that He left his WORD/NT to you, you would of not known His SALVATION that he Left YOU.

Avenger, who do you believe COMPILED the NT/SCRIPTURES, into the bible we now have?

Nor have you answered me…Did Jesus Christ leave the Bible or the Church?

Did Jesus Say to Peter "you are Rock and on this rock I will build my BIBLE? NO.

On the contrary Jesus said to Peter: "You are Rock and on this rock I will build my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

A new question I have for you… WHY DO YOU HAVE SO MUCH HATE FOR THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH THAT YOU THINK YOU HAVE TO CALL YOURSELF THE AVENGER?

Avenger, now this time if you can, please answer all of my question OR DON’T ANSWER ME AT ALL
Remember that Hate/Vengence will not get you into Heaven, and again, the gates of Hell will not prevail against the Roman Catholic Church! So you are wasting your time.

Ufamtobie

He won’t answer you, he is banned.
 
But even the assistant priest, a Filipino, admitted that he was a life-long Roman Catholic who wanted to be a priest. Problem was, he was married. He wanted both and so he went to Anglicanism to get both. That doesn’t make sense to me? Again, obedience, not getting what we want. My wife, being Filipino, and I felt that this guy was a bit of a sell-out. We thought, “wow, how can a staunch Catholic go Anglican just to be a priest?” and then we realized we were doing THE SAME THING! Just to avoid some teachings of Rome we didn’t like, we ran like heck. Anyway…just my observations…
Scott,

All right, no throwing dead rats…😉

Interesting point about the assistant priest wanting to be a Catholic priest but because of the Roman Catholic Church’s teaching that only non-married men can be priests he became an Anglican priest. Being able to be married and a priest seems to follow Jesus’ model - as with Peter for example. Interesting that the Roman Catholic Church does not hold to this model/tradition set by Jesus Christ and instead enforces celibacy as a matter of “discipline”. :confused:

Scott, I enjoy our conversations, though many a day I wished that Kate would give you a good nudge for me. I will promise to try and stay away from anything political with you, keep my husband from pushing you in front of a bus and not be too sensitive to your rat tossing…😛
 
Scott,

All right, no throwing dead rats…😉

Interesting point about the assistant priest wanting to be a Catholic priest but because of the Roman Catholic Church’s teaching that only non-married men can be priests he became an Anglican priest. Being able to be married and a priest seems to follow Jesus’ model - as with Peter for example. Interesting that the Roman Catholic Church does not hold to this model/tradition set by Jesus Christ and instead enforces celibacy as a matter of “discipline”. :confused:

Scott, I enjoy our conversations, though many a day I wished that Kate would give you a good nudge for me. I will promise to try and stay away from anything political with you, keep my husband from pushing you in front of a bus and not be too sensitive to your rat tossing…😛
Peter’s wife was dead (either that or he abstained from marital relationship with her- I forget)
Jesus was a celibate.
Paul was a celibate.
The Prophets were celibate.
 
Scott,

All right, no throwing dead rats…😉

Interesting point about the assistant priest wanting to be a Catholic priest but because of the Roman Catholic Church’s teaching that only non-married men can be priests he became an Anglican priest. Being able to be married and a priest seems to follow Jesus’ model - as with Peter for example. Interesting that the Roman Catholic Church does not hold to this model/tradition set by Jesus Christ and instead enforces celibacy as a matter of “discipline”. :confused:

Scott, I enjoy our conversations, though many a day I wished that Kate would give you a good nudge for me. I will promise to try and stay away from anything political with you, keep my husband from pushing you in front of a bus and not be too sensitive to your rat tossing…😛
Jesus commends celibacy (Matthew 19:12), as does Paul himself (1Cor. 7:32-33).
Although mandatory celibacy I believe ,for priests, did not occur until the tenth century, so it is a rule of the church which could, in theory, be changed. It is not a part of the Deposit of Faith, but surely it is a good rule.
The rule keeps celibacy alive which Jesus and Paul said are good.
 
Jesus commends celibacy (Matthew 19:12), as does Paul himself (1Cor. 7:32-33).
Although mandatory celibacy I believe ,for priests, did not occur until the tenth century, so it is a rule of the church which could, in theory, be changed. It is not a part of the Deposit of Faith, but surely it is a good rule.
The rule keeps celibacy alive which Jesus and Paul said are good.
Exactly.

Honestly, if celibacy wasn’t a requirement any male could become a priest like with Protestant religions.

emeraldcoast- Your signature is offensive.
 
Don’t worry EmeraldCoast. I know what Rex is saying, but try not to take it the wrong way.

What you say and what your signature says are two different things.

I think we all need to learn how to be tolerant of other religions.

Heck, I’m advertising my religion in my signature!
 
I’m just telling people my journey and what I saw as an Anglican. It always seems they are retreating from Rome’s morality and trying to write their own ticket. That’s just what I’ve seen, heard, and know. In fact, the Anglican priest that came to our house told us, direct quote, “most Catholics that come to us are divorcees that have remarried and want to take communion. Many are liberal Catholics that wanted women priests or birth control and many are just protestants and catholics in a marriage who want to meet half-way.”
Sounds like there are still plenty of Henry VIIIs out there. I thought history teaches us not to repeat the stupid mistakes of the past.
I was wrong.
 
Interesting point about the assistant priest wanting to be a Catholic priest but because of the Roman Catholic Church’s teaching that only non-married men can be priests he became an Anglican priest. Being able to be married and a priest seems to follow Jesus’ model - as with Peter for example. Interesting that the Roman Catholic Church does not hold to this model/tradition set by Jesus Christ and instead enforces celibacy as a matter of “discipline”. :confused:
You are confused, emeraldcoast, on a number of areas. First of all, if the individual is an “assistant priest” he is alread ordained as a priest. If not,then he is a deacon, and may be married. I am assuming that the reference here to “assistant priest” is actually to an ordained deacon, since there is no office of "assistant priest’ in the Catholic Church.

Second, being married and a priest does NOT follow Jesus model. He was a eunuch for the Kingdom. He was never married, and He is the best model of the priesthood.

Third, the discipline of celibacy is just that, a discipline and not a dogma/doctrine. I is not a Teaching of the Church, as those cannot be changed, and disciplines can.

Fourth, celibacy is never “enforced” on any Catholic. Celibacy, as Jesus taught, is a gift of God. Those who are able to receive it should do so. The Latin Rite prefers to choose from among those who have received this gift to serve in the priesthood. The discernment of the gift of celibacy preceedes the discernment of the priesthood.
 
“Were you the kid who got in trouble in Sunday School for asking too many questions? Come join the rest of us.” ~ The Episcopal Church
emeraldcoast- Your signature is offensive.
There is an implication here that persons who attended Catholic “Sunday School” and “asked too many questions” would be more comfortable in an Episcopal community. If one considers that the signature reflects the personal perspective and values of the poster, then one would surmise that this was the personal experience of emeraldcoast.

Now, Catholics don’t have “Sunday School”, so this speaks of a person who does not have much experience with Catholicism, or does not understand it well. Or it could be that such a person did attend what she believed was Catholic “Sunday School” and was poorly catechised. A number of us were victims of the “spirit” of Vatican II, so this is not surprising, sadly. Recently there was a very hostile member banned from here who seemed to be a victim of that same poor catechesis. Let us look first for the log in our own eye, before attempting to remove the speck. The Catholic Church is, indeed, coming from about 40 years of modernism and very poor "Sunday School"ing.
 
You are confused, emeraldcoast, on a number of areas. First of all, if the individual is an “assistant priest” he is alread ordained as a priest. If not,then he is a deacon, and may be married. I am assuming that the reference here to “assistant priest” is actually to an ordained deacon, since there is no office of "assistant priest’ in the Catholic Church.

Second, being married and a priest does NOT follow Jesus model. He was a eunuch for the Kingdom. He was never married, and He is the best model of the priesthood.

Third, the discipline of celibacy is just that, a discipline and not a dogma/doctrine. I is not a Teaching of the Church, as those cannot be changed, and disciplines can.

Fourth, celibacy is never “enforced” on any Catholic. Celibacy, as Jesus taught, is a gift of God. Those who are able to receive it should do so. The Latin Rite prefers to choose from among those who have received this gift to serve in the priesthood. The discernment of the gift of celibacy preceedes the discernment of the priesthood.
Hi guanophore,

As far as using the term “assistant priest” , I was using the word that gurneyhalleck1(Catholic) used in his post to me referring to an Anglican priest from his old Anglican Church. Just so you know, in the Episcopal Church you may hear the words curate, assistant or associate referring to the priest that assist the Rector/Vicar. I understand how this could of confused you.

Celibacy, I believe that I did state that it was a discipline not a dogma in the RC. When I spoke of following Jesus’ model of priesthood, I was referring to those that He chose as His apostles- Peter for example. Let us please agree to disagree if Peter was married or not. When and why did the Roman Catholic Church begin this discipline? You stated “The discernment of the gift of celibacy preceedes the discernment of the priesthood” which honestly is not always the case. For example, the Roman Catholic Church has had married Episcopal priest become priest in the RC and the discipline for celebacy is not required of them, correct?

God Bless!
 
There is an implication here that persons who attended Catholic “Sunday School” and “asked too many questions” would be more comfortable in an Episcopal community. If one considers that the signature reflects the personal perspective and values of the poster, then one would surmise that this was the personal experience of emeraldcoast.

Now, Catholics don’t have “Sunday School”, so this speaks of a person who does not have much experience with Catholicism, or does not understand it well. Or it could be that such a person did attend what she believed was Catholic “Sunday School” and was poorly catechised. A number of us were victims of the “spirit” of Vatican II, so this is not surprising, sadly. Recently there was a very hostile member banned from here who seemed to be a victim of that same poor catechesis. Let us look first for the log in our own eye, before attempting to remove the speck. The Catholic Church is, indeed, coming from about 40 years of modernism and very poor "Sunday School"ing.
Hi!

I did not just pull this quote out of the air…lol I think that I first heard it at a Via Media program for Episcopalians and it made me giggle.🙂

Here are a couple links where it is used…🙂

msucanterbury.org/

trinitywallstreet.org/calendar/index.php?event_id=13500

You also may not be aware that our children do attend a Catholic School. I am aware of CCD or Religious Education for Catholic children that do not attend Catholic Schools. We do have an awesome Adult Sunday School at our Episcopal Church along with our Wednesday Bible Study Class. Our children also attend Sunday School and Children’s Church at our Church. Advent has started, so we will have Wednesday Night Advent Dinners followed by a discussion led by our pastor.

You mentioned “poor catechesis” in the Catholic Church since Vatican II in your post. Do you have Adult Catholic Religious Education Classes? You know, Sunday School…😉

God Bless!
 
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