Which church is God's true church? Is it the Roman Catholic Church?

[cazayoux]

Pay a visit to my Presbyterian church. We’re visible?

Where would I have found it … say … 1000 years ago?

 

[justasking4]

Where would I have found it … say … 1000 years ago?

Do you think Rome was the place of orgin of the church?

 

[sola_scriptura]

yada…yada…yada…that’s what you are! typical talk now think later persona, no wonder you don’t belong to the church that JESUS founded. so clear to me that you lack understanding on the early church history what more so on scriptures, you’ve got so much angst and hatred that makes me wonder if you truly believe in GOD. what i posted was written by st. alphonsus mary de liguori that i wanted to share here. how stupid can you get? now let me ask you is presbyterian a religion?

Is that the best you can do?

 

[sola_scriptura]

Where would I have found it … say … 1000 years ago?

the relevance is?

 

[guanophore]

There is a lot here. Where has the Catholic church offically interpreted the Scriptures to mean what you claim here? Take for example Clerical celibacy. Has the Catholic church offically interpreted I Timothy 3 to mean that a man is to be celibate and not married to be a church leader?

no. The priesthood is a specific vocation, and is not equated to leadership. MOst leadership in American parishes is done by lay leaders (pastoral councils and directors of departments). These people tend to be married and have families.

The Latin Rite prefers to choose for priests from among those that are also gifted with celibacy.

 

[guanophore]

This means that in terms of authority the Scriptures are greater and take 1st place in what a Christian is to believe and practice. If a church or teacher teaches something that is contrary to the Scriptures that teaching is not binding or to be followed.

Catholics Agree that nothing is greater than the Word of God. However, where we differ is that Catholics believe this Word is the second person of the Trinity, not a book that was written about HIm. We believe that Jesus is the Head of the church, and that He has first place over Christian belief and practice.

The other problem with this formulation (in addition to the fact that it is a kind of idolatry) is that it is not the scripture that is teaching, but the person interpreting it. Scripture does not “teach” as this requires an act of the will, which a book does not have. Jesus gave HIs teaching authority to the Apostles, long before a word of the NT was written.

But, I thank you for posting this, becuase this is a common result of th eSola Scriptura error.

The church itself did not “produce” the Scriptures but they have their source in God. We also know that the OT Scriptures were not produced by the church. God used people to write these things down.

Exactly. the Scriptures, just like the Church, have their Source in God, and God uses people to write, and act (teach, have authority, etc). The Church 'produced the scriptures under the inspiration of the HS just as the Magesterium “produces” the application of that infallible teaching in every age.

We can know many things for sure today. If a person wants to present a new doctrine or practice then we can go to the scriptures to see if such a thing should be done. We can even ask if such a thing is necessary if the Scriptures already teach such a thing. Praying to the saints is one such example. Its unnecessary since Christ alone is sufficient for everything we need. We have direct access to Him.

Well, the reason the scriptures can’t act as an authority (in addition to the fact that they lack the qualities for authority) is that everyone interprets them differently. This is why there are such a variety of beliefs.

Furthermore, the Teaching of the Apostles was never confined to the scriptures, so using them as such a standard will clearly omit part of the Apostolic Teaching.

 

[guanophore]

Is it not true that if a Roman Catholic married man wants to become a priest that he is disqualified at the start from even being considered for the priesthood because he is married?

No, ja4. And let me take this opportunity to remind you that CAF is not a venue for spreading your anti-Catholic lies and bigotry.

 

[wisdomseeker]

**Quote:
Originally Posted by justasking4
Is it not true that if a Roman Catholic married man wants to become a priest that he is disqualified at the start from even being considered for the priesthood because he is married? **

i think J4 is getting a free thelogy degree here at CAF. let us know when you are ready so we can give you a diploma.

or maybe he wants to be a leader of the CC, have anyone notice the silly question he asks?

or maybe he is married and he wants to find out if he can be become a priest. no you may not become a priest. a priest is not a profession like pastors at protestants church, priesthood is a calling from God to His Church.

get over J4.

 

[sola_scriptura]

Well, the reason the scriptures can’t act as an authority (in addition to the fact that they lack the qualities for authority) is that everyone interprets them differently. This is why there are such a variety of beliefs.

Your view fails to consider the facts. As I’ve said before there is a wide divergence of theological views within the Catholic Church. Differences between East and West, differences in soteriology (the question of predestination), just to mention a couple. Indeed the differences in Catholicism parallel the theological differences between protestant denominations.

Let me provide an example. In protestantism there are two broad categories of believers. Arminians (after the Dutch theologian Jacob Arminius) and Calvinists (after John Calvin). Arminians (generally Methodists and other “Wesleyan” churches) ascribe to the notion that we must “cooperate with grace” and that we can, through our own free will, resist God’s saving grace. Calvinists believe that all who were predestined by God cannot resist grace. Therefore, for the Calvinist our own will, effort, or desires have nothing to do with our salvation, it’s God’s sovereign choice.

The same essential difference exists in Catholicism. Calvin’s inspiration was St. Augustine. The Benedictine Order today ascribes to nearly the same view of election as Calvinists. However, most Catholics are Arminian in thought and practice. However, there are even wider differences in Catholic soteriology. For example, the Jesuits follow the soteriology of Luis Molina, who struggled to find harmony between human free will and divine providence. In fact when we look at the East West schism we cannot even say all these differences exist under one tent in Catholicism. Both recognize the others claim to valid apostolic succession, so both believe the other is part of the “one true apostolic church of Christ.”

 

[Salamander]

Why *do *protestants protest celibacy? … it’s in the bible!

michel

Not protestant, but I’ll bite. Peter was married, so why do catholics deny marriage to priests? 1 Cor. 9:5; Matthew 8:14

 

[wisdomseeker]

Not protestant, but I’ll bite. Peter was married, so why do catholics deny marriage to priests? 1 Cor. 9:5; Matthew 8:14

St Peter was married but we dont know if he actually had a wife since she was never mentioned.

St Peter was very busy and had to be in different places all the time, i dont think he had the time to attend a wife. that is my conclusion .

"Lord, our God, whose power is beyond compare, and glory is beyond understanding; whose mercy is boundless, and love for us is ineffable; look upon us and upon this holy house in Your compassion. Grant to us and to those who pray with us Your abundant mercy."

 

[t68ware]

yada…yada…yada…that’s what you are! typical talk now think later persona, no wonder you don’t belong to the church that JESUS founded. so clear to me that you lack understanding on the early church history what more so on scriptures, you’ve got so much angst and hatred that makes me wonder if you truly believe in GOD. what i posted was written by st. alphonsus mary de liguori that i wanted to share here. how stupid can you get? now let me ask you is presbyterian a religion?

What a loving response! No, serioulsy, asking someone if they are stupid is the highlight of this post. This is what I mean when I say discussions between some catholics and non-catholics get way to personal and mean. Try to temper your comments in a logical, friendly way instead of resorting to name calling. You don’t do the Catholic Church any good by name calling.

 

[cath2lic4ever]

Is that the best you can do?

simple question you can’t answer. is that the best you can do ask another question. topic is about which church is GOD’s true church. your responses are so arrogant that leads you to become ignorant. there is only one church that GOD founded and it’s the CATHOLIC church and you can’t do anything about it.

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

Not protestant, but I’ll bite. Peter was married, so why do catholics deny marriage to priests? 1 Cor. 9:5; Matthew 8:14

Its not matter of Faith or Morals, its a pastoral decision:

Anyhow look what Paul said:

Referring to his own celibate state , Paul said: “I should like everyone to be like me"

Paul was in favor it. Anyhow, the Catholic Church does allow Marriage for priests, just not in the Latin rite.

 

[Salamander]

St Peter was married but we dont know if he actually had a wife since she was never mentioned.

Huh? Then who was he married too? A fish named Wanda? You see, I have a problem when people say, quote “we don’t know”. Just search the scriptures and quit listening to man for the answers we seek.

“A bishop, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?)” 1 Timothy 3:2-5

 

[wisdomseeker]

Huh? Then who was he married too? A fish named Wanda? You see, I have a problem when people say, quote “we don’t know”. Just search the scriptures and quit listening to man for the answers we seek.

“A bishop, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?)” 1 Timothy 3:2-5

and where does it say here that a bishop must be married? what do you think it happened to St Paul since he did not marry?

now i turned the question to you. do you really think that your churches are well managed? since they all are married.

 

[sola_scriptura]

St Peter was married but we dont know if he actually had a wife since she was never mentioned.

Uhhh, he had a mother in law so obviously he was married. Of course his wife is not mentioned since the families of the Apostles are not the focus of their ministry.

St Peter was very busy and had to be in different places all the time, i dont think he had the time to attend a wife. that is my conclusion.

We know Peter was married:

When Jesus came into Peter’s house, he saw Peter’s mother-in-law lying in bed with a fever (Matt. 8:14).

Perhaps his wife may have stayed home while he was away building the church, but that’s not the point is it? He was married and to a woman.

 

[Salamander]

simple question you can’t answer. is that the best you can do ask another question. topic is about which church is GOD’s true church. your responses are so arrogant that leads you to become ignorant. there is only one church that GOD founded and it’s the CATHOLIC church and you can’t do anything about it.

No, he probably can’t do anything about the “catholic” church, but “the church of Christ”, Romans 16:16, now that is a different matter.

 

[Salamander]

and where does it say here that a bishop must be married? what do you think it happened to St Paul since he did not marry?

now i turned the question to you. do you really think that your churches are well managed? since they all are married.

Paul was a Apostle, not a Bishop/Elder/Pastor of any local congregation of believers like Peter (Jerusalem). Paul was an Evangelist, sinner (forgiven chief), teacher, priest, brother and worker (tent maker). I don’t believe he had time for a wife, but that made him no less a preacher for God in Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. Maybe that was his past “thorn in the flesh?”

 

[cath2lic4ever]

What a loving response! No, serioulsy, asking someone if they are stupid is the highlight of this post. This is what I mean when I say discussions between some catholics and non-catholics get way to personal and mean. Try to temper your comments in a logical, friendly way instead of resorting to name calling. You don’t do the Catholic Church any good by name calling.

tell me if post #433 is friendly and logical response?