Which church is God's true church? Is it the Roman Catholic Church?

[Mickey]

I disagree with this paragraph in its entirety.

Of course you do.

Many men throughout history have gone through lengths to preach free will.

That is because it is completely Biblical.

For example, at Rev. 20 we learn those in Christ are judged differently and separately than those who are not. We are blessed, the saints become co-rulers with Christ and assist in judgment. The rest are judged at the “second death.”

Rev 20:12
And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

Standing before God at His throne at the final judgement, the dead are confronted with their works. The books of judgement (Dan 7:10) contain a record of men’s deeds; their own works will judge them (Ps 61:13; Jer 17:6). This judging of believer’s works is a common NT theme (Mt 16:27; Rom 2:6; 2Cor 5:10; 1Pt 1:17; see also the Anaphora of the Liturgy of St Basil and the hymns for the Sunday of the Last Judgement). In contrast is the Book of Life. It contains the names of all saved by grace (see Ex 32:32; Is 4:3; Dan 12:1,2)—not that they have no works, but that God’s mercy is far greater in comparison. The Orthodox liturgy thus petitions God for a “good account before the dread judgement seat of Christ.”
OSB

Rather than take this view – you want us to believe that those who never had an opportunity to hear the Gospel message, because of the cards they were dealt in life, somehow had the same chance at faith in Christ as you and I have?

It is not your place to judge, my friend. God does not forget about them.

I do not think these folks will be tossed in some lake of fire arbitrarily. However, I also do not walk under the delusion that they had the same chance I did at accepting a Jesus they never learned exists by no fault of their own.

That is because you are a weak human being with weak human reasoning. Your ways are not God’s ways.

**Those [pagans] who decide that man does not have free will, but say that he is governed by the unavoidable necessities of fate, are guilty of impiety toward God Himself, making Him out to be the cause and author of human evils. **
(260-315 AD St. Methodius The Banquet of the Ten Virgins discourse 8, chap. 16)

 

[wisdomseeker]

**Quote:
Originally Posted by Reformed
But why did Jimmy B post a picture of a building… **

So everyone knows who we are, CATHOLICS.

just think of this, if Noah had not built the Ark he probably would not have survived the flood, just like the others who did not entered in it and died in the waters.

 

[sola_scriptura]

Of course you do.

That is because it is completely Biblical.

This is a manifestation of the carnal mind. Free will is a will apart or “free” from the divine will. You go ahead and grasp to it tightly

Rev 20:12
And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

Standing before God at His throne at the final judgement, the dead are confronted with their works. The books of judgement (Dan 7:10) contain a record of men’s deeds; their own works will judge them (Ps 61:13; Jer 17:6). This judging of believer’s works is a common NT theme (Mt 16:27; Rom 2:6; 2Cor 5:10; 1Pt 1:17; see also the Anaphora of the Liturgy of St Basil and the hymns for the Sunday of the Last Judgement). In contrast is the Book of Life. It contains the names of all saved by grace (see Ex 32:32; Is 4:3; Dan 12:1,2)—not that they have no works, but that God’s mercy is far greater in comparison. The Orthodox liturgy thus petitions God for a “good account before the dread judgement seat of Christ.”
OSB
It is not your place to judge, my friend. God does not forget about them.
That is because you are a weak human being with weak human reasoning. Your ways are not God’s ways.

**Those [pagans] who decide that man does not have free will, but say that he is governed by the unavoidable necessities of fate, are guilty of impiety toward God Himself, making Him out to be the cause and author of human evils. **
(260-315 AD St. Methodius The Banquet of the Ten Virgins discourse 8, chap. 16)

Well, I guess it was only a matter of time before the ad hom attacks started flowing huh? To bad, I thought more of your ability to reason. Frankly, I love it when someone with an opposing view resorts to name calling – it gives me that much more confidence in my position, since ad hom attacks are the last resort of a losing argument.

Peace!

 

[justasking4]

This is a manifestation of the carnal mind. Free will is a will apart or “free” from the divine will. You go ahead and grasp to it tightly

Well, I guess it was only a matter of time before the ad hom attacks started flowing huh? To bad, I thought more of your ability to reason. Frankly, I love it when someone with an opposing view resorts to name calling – it gives me that much more confidence in my position, since ad hom attacks are the last resort of a losing argument.

Peace!

Truer words have never been spoken… There’s plenty out here. If you hang out here long enough you can expect some personal attacks. Don’t give up…

 

[Reformed]

Speaking of buildings, when is the Protestant Church giving us Catholics our buildings and property back that were stolen from the Catholic Church?

What are your thoughts regarding, Hospital Buildings, Schools and University buildings, Fire Station and Police Station buildings and so on and so on….should stop using them?

Is it just “Catholic” buildings that you have a problem with?

The Reform Church doesn’t own or use any buildings?

I already posted that I know and every other Catholic knows that the Church is not the buildings, your comment here is dumb and it seems to me that you are just causing trouble now.

Be nice and be honest.

Ihave two questions for you my friends Jimmy B. Please explain to me what you mean by “in Christ” Are Roman Catholics more in Christ than Protestants? . Also, why to emphasis of being Roman Cathoilc and not just Christian?

 

[Reformed]

**Quote:
Originally Posted by Reformed
But why did Jimmy B post a picture of a building… **

So everyone knows who we are, CATHOLICS.

just think of this, if Noah had not built the Ark he probably would not have survived the flood, just like the others who did not entered in it and died in the waters.

I’m catholic too (universal). When you put the word Roman in front of catholic, things change radically.

The picture of Noah and entering the ark is a picture of being in Christ. It is not a picture of entering the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

I’m catholic too (universal).

in what sense can you be called “catholic”?

 

[Reformed]

in what sense can you be called “catholic”?

Catholic means uinversal. We embrace the Apostle’s Creed too. I believe Peter was simply a Christian and a member of the catholic church. I do not believe he was a member of the Roman Catholic Church.

reformed.org/documents/index.html

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

Catholic means uinversal. We embrace the Apostles Creed too.

Awesome. Praise be to God.

 

[sola_scriptura]

Truer words have never been spoken… There’s plenty out here. If you hang out here long enough you can expect some personal attacks. Don’t give up…

Thanks for the kind words

Blessings

 

[Mickey]

This is a manifestation of the carnal mind. Free will is a will apart or “free” from the divine will. !

Sorry friend. It is your understanding which is derived from bad interpretations. Free will is a God given attribute.

Well, I guess it was only a matter of time before the ad hom attacks started flowing huh? To bad, I thought more of your ability to reason. Frankly, I love it when someone with an opposing view resorts to name calling – it gives me that much more confidence in my position, since ad hom attacks are the last resort of a losing argument.

You have won no arguments. It is impossible for you to win an argument with a non-apostolic interpretation of a subject. Your confidence is placed in a faulty premise.

I suspect that you may be a bit paranoid. I have not called you names. I submitted a quote from one of the Church Fathers (St Methodius) defending free will. If you have taken it personally, perhaps your conscience has been awakened?

Here is more:

We have learned from the prophets, and we hold it to be true, that punishments, chastisements, and rewards are rendered according to the merit of each man’s actions. Otherwise, if all things happen by fate, then nothing is in our own power. For if it be predestined that one man be good and another man evil, then the first is not deserving of praise or the other to be blamed. Unless humans have the power of avoiding evil and choosing good by free choice, they are not accountable for their actions-whatever they may be… For neither would a man be worthy of reward or praise if he did not of himself choose the good, but was merely created for that end. Likewise, if a man were evil, he would not deserve punishment, since he was not evil of himself, being unable to do anything else than what he was made for.
(110-165AD St. Justin Martyr First Apology chap. 43)

 

[Mickey]

Truer words have never been spoken.

So I am guessing that you also believe we do not have free will? Oh my.

 

[justasking4]

Catholic means uinversal. We embrace the Apostle’s Creed too. I believe Peter was simply a Christian and a member of the catholic church. I do not believe he was a member of the Roman Catholic Church.

reformed.org/documents/index.html

Why don’t you believe that Peter was not a Roman Catholic?

 

[Reformed]

Why don’t you believe that Peter was not a Roman Catholic?

By reading the Scriptures apart from what Rome teaches.

 

[sola_scriptura]

Sorry friend. It is your understanding which is derived from bad interpretations. Free will is a God given attribute.

You have won no arguments. It is impossible for you to win an argument with a non-apostolic interpretation of a subject. Your confidence is placed in a faulty premise.

I suspect that you may be a bit paranoid. I have not called you names. I submitted a quote from one of the Church Fathers (St Methodius) defending free will. If you have taken it personally, perhaps your conscience has been awakened?

Here is more:

We have learned from the prophets, and we hold it to be true, that punishments, chastisements, and rewards are rendered according to the merit of each man’s actions. Otherwise, if all things happen by fate, then nothing is in our own power. For if it be predestined that one man be good and another man evil, then the first is not deserving of praise or the other to be blamed. Unless humans have the power of avoiding evil and choosing good by free choice, they are not accountable for their actions-whatever they may be… For neither would a man be worthy of reward or praise if he did not of himself choose the good, but was merely created for that end. Likewise, if a man were evil, he would not deserve punishment, since he was not evil of himself, being unable to do anything else than what he was made for.
(110-165AD St. Justin Martyr First Apology chap. 43)

Of course you must be right. After all why would anyone think the following statement was an ad hom attack:

Mickey:

That is because you are a weak human being with weak human reasoning. Your ways are not God’s ways.

I must have, what did you call me this time, “paranoid” to consider that statement an ad hom attack?

You’re a peculiar individual …

 

[Mickey]

After all why would anyone think the following statement was an ad hom attack

You are kidding me right? We are **all **weak human beings with weak human reasoning. That was not an insult. It is a reality! Sheesh! That was not directed at you, personally. We are all weak and wretched sinners.

I must have, what did you call me this time, “paranoid” to consider that statement an ad hom attack?

It must have pricked your conscience. That is a good thing.

You’re a peculiar individual

Thank you.

May God bless you abundantly.

 

[sola_scriptura]

Exactly!
Again, it was a quote from a great saint defending free will. It must have pricked your conscience. That is a good thing.
Thank you.

May God bless you abundantly.

The paranoid flap was presented as your quote – not one of a saint?

Of course you think that anyone who disagrees with you is somehow deluded, whether because they’re spiritually discerned in some way or your new line of attack – paranoid.

I guess when a reasonable argument eludes you switching to ad hom attacks becomes the natural inclination.

I shouldn’t have said peculiar — since your tactic is nothing new. It seems you have abandoned an argument based on reason and scripture — which I repeat bolsters my confidence in your error.

 

[Mickey]

The paranoid flap was presented as your quote – not one of a saint?

My guess–that you are perhaps a bit paranoid, is not ad hom.

Of course you think that anyone who disagrees with you is somehow deluded, whether because they’re spiritually discerned in some way or your new line of attack – paranoid.

Wrong. I am the most wretched of all sinners. I follow Sacred Scriptures as interpreted by the apostolic Church and the Church Fathers. They are not deluded.

I guess when a reasonable argument eludes you switching to ad hom attacks becomes the natural inclination.

I suppose that when you encounter true interpretations of Sacred Scripture, your only defense is to accuse me of ad hom.

I shouldn’t have said peculiar — since your tactic is nothing new.

I am not using a tactic on you. I am only proclaiming the truth. Calling me peculiar is not an insult to me. Do not sweat it.

It seems you have abandoned an argument based on reason and scripture — which I repeat bolsters my confidence in your error.

I have won the debate based on Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition. It that gives you some type of confidence—so be it.

 

[sola_scriptura]

My guess–that you are perhaps a bit paranoid, is not ad hom.
Wrong. I am the most wretched of all sinners. I follow Sacred Scriptures as interpreted by the apostolic Church and the Church Fathers. They are not deluded.
I suppose that when you encounter true interpretations of Sacred Scripture, your only defense is to accuse me of ad hom.
I am not using a tactic on you. I am only proclaiming the truth. Calling me peculiar is not an insult to me. Do not sweat it.
I have won the debate based on Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition. It that gives you some type of confidence—so be it.

What debate? All you done is accused me of being faithless, paranoid, and other lovely characterizations. I’m not sure why disagreeing with certain Catholic theological positions would give rise to the charges you’ve made against my personal character, or how you could even stand in such judgment of someone you don’t know beyond a short discourse at arms length on the internet?

I guess you think somehow you’re the logical one here, however, I’m not sure where you derive your definition of logic from?

At any rate unless you want to discuss something then perhaps you could find someone else to toss your insults at? I’ve remained gracious in these discussions, not returning insult for insult, because this is how Christians act. Indeed nothing you say will compel me to toss mud, just not my style.

God Bless

 

[steve_b]

Ihave two questions for you my friends Jimmy B. Please explain to me what you mean by “in Christ” Are Roman Catholics more in Christ than Protestants?

How did Jesus define it?

Regarding a Protestant, what did Paul say about division and dissensions?

Reformed:

Also, why to emphasis of being Roman Cathoilc and not just Christian?

Roman Catholics ARE Christian, the first Christians.