Which church is God's true church? Is it the Roman Catholic Church?

[Cinette]

If I were to agree with your premise (that the office of the Papacy is Christ’s power) I might agree that it could not be corrupted. In fact I like your assertion – because now if I can find even one corrupt Pope then I can prove you wrong. Or will I hear the same old double speak. It is Christ’s power in terms of doctrine but not personal behavior?

Perhaps you might like to read “Pope Fiction” by Patrick Madrid.

 

[justasking4]

No, he’s trying to say that it was Galileo’s theological theory that got him into trouble – not his scientific theory … which is the most absurd thing I’ve ever heard. Galileo was forced to recant his theory that the sun is at the center of the solar system … the man was not a theologian. Great astronomer and physicist … not theologian.

This is the RCC spin on this controversy so they can say they did not err. In other words they now say it was a theological question not scientific – because if it were a scientific question we could unquestionably prove their error. However, the history is well recorded and no amount of spin will change the facts – it was Galileo’s scientific theory they objected to and forced him to recant – and we can unquestionably prove their error, period!

 

[MDK]

sola_scriptura;4097042:

No, he’s trying to say that it was Galileo’s theological theory that got him into trouble – not his scientific theory … which is the most absurd thing I’ve ever heard. Galileo was forced to recant his theory that the sun is at the center of the solar system … the man was not a theologian. Great astronomer and physicist … not theologian.

This is the RCC spin on this controversy so they can say they did not err. In other words they now say it was a theological question not scientific – because if it were a scientific question we could unquestionably prove their error. However, the history is well recorded and no amount of spin will change the facts – it was Galileo’s scientific theory they objected to and forced him to recant – and we can unquestionably prove their error, period!

From what you’ve shown throughout your postings on this board, is that the truth continues to be the most absurd thing you’ve heard.

While I was at the Church Christ built, worhsiping Him and receiving Him in the Eucharist, you two were here writing against His Church and trolling like a couple of spiders trying to spin web of deceit.

You live a most pathetic existence, and it’s a shame. Both of you could be decent people if you simply followed the truth.

 

[justasking4]

From what you’ve shown throughout your postings on this board, is that the truth continues to be the most absurd thing you’ve heard.

While I was at the Church Christ built, worhsiping Him and receiving Him in the Eucharist, you two were here writing against His Church and trolling like a couple of spiders trying to spin web of deceit.

You live a most pathetic existence, and it’s a shame. Both of you could be decent people if you simply followed the truth.

Are these the best arguments you can give for your position?

 

[MDK]

I Did not leave the Church Jesus has founded. I am a catholic just not a Roman catholic. I am a christian If you agree or not. You do not know me or anybody else you attack on this forum. until somebody goes to Heaven and returns to earth with a tally of who is there why attack the ones who are still here. When you arrive in Heavan (and you will) you will be surprised to see your fellow christians there. The neat thing about the entire event is you will get to meet those you attacked here on earth. also you will be able to know the real names of Justasking4 and Sola Scripture and that catholiconce dude. So if at the potlucks in heaven we both reach for Mrs Johnson’s Four bean salad we can talk about old times.

Actually, you did leave His Church.

You have no idea who I am or what I believe. Neither do you know the Church you left.

I have attacked your falsehoods, which is a good thing. I will continue to do so. If you want lies, go to a non-Catholic web site, or just listen to the non-Catholics on this Forum.

 

[MDK]

Are these the best arguments you can give for your position?

I’ve already given you many things you can’t or won’t answer truthfully. What’s the point of repeating them?

Your Galileo controversy doesn’t prove what you claim it does, and so you spread falsehoods to make it seem like something it is not.

What is it about the truth bothers you?

How about a response to (an honest response please if you can pull yourself up to one):

Haven’t you already been through this? Do you need each and every Catholic to tell you the truth before you believe it?

• As recorded in Matthew 16:18, who was to build the Church… was it the Apostles or Christ?
• As recorded in the Gospel of Matthew 16:18, How many Apostles were given the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven?
• As recorded in John 21, how many Apostles were told directly by Christ to “Feed my lambs…, Feed my lambs…, Feed my sheep”?
• As recorded in Matthew 16:18, how many Apostles had their name changed to mean “rock”?
• What does it mean when God has changed someone’s name? Does He have a special mission for them? Think of Abram to Abraham…, Jacob to Israel…, Simon to Kepha (rock)…, Saul to Paul… Was is just a whim, or was there a meaning and purpose in all these name changes?
• As recorded in Matthew 16:18, how many Apostles were told they were the rock of the Church to correspond with their name change?
• Christ established Peter as head of the Apostles. So, if you believe that the Apostles followed Christ, then they also followed and kept what Christ established, which was an office of “Prime Minister” to stand in as the King was going back home to Heaven.

A good definition is found in New Advent encyclopedia: Vicar of Christ
It is founded on the words of the Divine Shepherd to St. Peter: “Feed my lambs. . . . Feed my sheep” (John 21:16-17), by which He constituted the Prince of the Apostles guardian of His entire flock in His own place, thus making him His Vicar and fulfilling the promise made in Matthew 16:18-19.

The post of Vicar doesn’t mean the pope is top man, as the true Head of the Church is Christ. St Peter has primacy as head of the sacred ministers, the visible leader of the Church, and the symbol of unity of the Church. He has full, supreme, immediate, and universal power as given to him by the Son of God. This is God’s plan. It is not man’s plan. Christ came with a mission from the Father, and the Apostles were given a mission from Christ. The leader of the Apostles was St Peter, as established by Christ.

I don’t have much hope you will answer these correctly on this board. I hope at least somewhere in the ja4 mind, the truth is starting to make inroads.

 

[MDK]

God also gives us freedom in Christ – it is this freedom we are spreading to all corners of the earth. It’s like manifest destiny but much more profound – it’s divine providence.

The freedom in Christ is freedom from the slavery to sin.

The false freedom some claim is to make His word into something it’s not. The Catholic Church carries and delivers His mail. Others tend to desire to edit His mail.

 

[justasking4]

I’ve already given you many things you can’t or won’t answer truthfully. What’s the point of repeating them?

Your Galileo controversy doesn’t prove what you claim it does, and so you spread falsehoods to make it seem like something it is not.

What is it about the truth bothers you?

How about a response to (an honest response please if you can pull yourself up to one):

Why don’t you give me your very best reason from the list you give? Putting out a long list and responding to them is very time consuming. Thanks–

 

[MDK]

Why don’t you give me your very best reason from the list you give? Putting out a long list and responding to them is very time consuming. Thanks–

They’re all related, and for anyone who knew these, it would take a total of about 2 minutes to answer. It’s very easy, so I don’t see why I should take away from something that is already very easy. When answered truthfully, it presents a nice picture of things working together.

 

[guanophore]

What then of the other apostles? Did they have an equal responsibilty to feed the sheep and help build the church? Did they look at Peter as the supreme leader of the entire church?

The other Apostles were in perfect unity with Peter, and were part and parcel of the commission Jesus gave them. None of them would even consider feeding the sheep or building the Church apart from Peter, as many do today.

No, I don’t think the Apostles suffered from the secular contamination of leadership that you represent here. To them, leadership meant service, not supremacy. They looked at Peter as The Great Fisherman, and the recipient of Jesus’ “keys to the Kingdom”.

It is the only source we have on Peter and the apostles.

Speak for yourself, ja4. Those of us who have received the Apostolic Traditions are not limited to scripture.

One church giving direction or advice to another church is not the same to say the individual who is doing so has universal leadership of the entire church. To show that you must also show that all other churches or most did acknowledge that Clement was indeed the supreme leader of the entire church. Can you do that for anyone in the first couple of centruies?

You are right, but this is not a “church” giving direction, but the successor of Peter. The gifts that were given to Peter were not given to anyone else. Just as the privilege of carrying the Son of God in the womb was only given to one person.

The need to exercise the authority Christ gave did not become so evident until the church spread very wide, and heresies were rampant. The more people are separated from the Apostolic Authority, the more heresy abounds.

What specific “traditions” is Paul referring to here?

“The Way” as it is called in Acts, preserved by those who still hold fast to the Apostolic Teaching. It is a way of being in the world, a perspective on life. Primarily, how to understand what is written in the bible in the same way the writers meant it.

The OT Scriptures precedes the church for one. The oral teachings of Christ precede the church. These teachings evenually came to be written down.

No. Scripture clearly states that not all is written. Furthermore, he OT was still in dispute at the time.

Your statement that “he Catholic Church will not teach error in faith and morals” cannot be supported. One such example is
where Galileo was summoned to Rome by the Inquisition to stand trial for “grave suspicion of heresy.” There is no doubt that the church was in error. It was a matter of faith otherwise he would not have been on trial and imprisoned for heresy.

It seems you have quite a bit to learn about your own family history, ja4. I suggest you are not going to learn it from those Chick Tracts! Yes, it is a matter of faith when someone starts insisting that the words of Holy Scripture be altered to reflect modern “science”. Had Galileo stuck to his science, there would not have been an inquiry, but due to his insistence that scripture was “wrong” and needed to be 'edited" he was called to account.

How can we when the Catholic church has offically condemned protestants and has never been offically rescinded. (see Trent) and were considered now to separated brethren?

No, it will not be rescinded, either. However the condemnation is not of “protestants” but of the heresies embraced, and the persons that embrace them. All of these were Catholics, until they were excommunicated, or separated themselves from the church. It is the duty of the church to stand up against errors. She would have been falling down on the job not to make these statements at Trent. However, these statements only re-iterated what the Church had always taught.

How can we when the Catholic church has offically condemned protestants and has never been offically rescinded. (see Trent) and were considered now to separated brethren?

We cannot work together on unity if you are constantly attacking and falsely accusing your brethren, I agree.

 

[MDK]

Yeah I know – those pesky history books huh?

History books are wonderful. History is quite simply what happened. We just ask that you please not revise them to suit your agenda.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Do you not believe in God and can you prove he doesn’t exist??

:bigyikes: :bigyikes: :bigyikes:

noone needs to prove a negative. anyway you missed my point.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Yes to all questions. However this is not the topic here.

no. you cannot prove He exists. anyway you have missed my point.

:knight2: :knight2:

 

[guanophore]

I’m still confused over this – because the language of Vatican II seems to abrogate this condemnation?

No, the condemnation was against those who had been taught the true Apostolic faith,then chose to leave it. Modern Protestants often do not even know where their faith came from (most think it came from the Bible, and not the Reformers). They cannot be charged with heresy, since requires that one know the truth, then willfully renounce it. Most protestants today were never taught the truth in the first place.

 

[guanophore]

As someone who is catholic and was raised in the faith, I find this truly offensive that the Pope would make a statement like this. It is making me seriously consider leaving the church. As long as popele believe in God and the holy trinity, why does it matter whether they believe as catholics, methodists, lutherans, etc? I think Benedict has gone too far with this statement and I do believe it is going to hurt the catholic church in the long run.​

widecircles.com

Welcome to CAF, MichaelBolton. Benedict is only restating what the Church has always taught. Why does it bother you? Did you not realize that this is Catholic?

 

[justasking4]

They’re all related, and for anyone who knew these, it would take a total of about 2 minutes to answer. It’s very easy, so I don’t see why I should take away from something that is already very easy. When answered truthfully, it presents a nice picture of things working together.

I’ll give it a try.

Originally Posted by MDK
Haven’t you already been through this? Do you need each and every Catholic to tell you the truth before you believe it?

Yes. I keep getting different answers from all kinds of issues from catholics. Not all catholics believe the same thing.

As recorded in Matthew 16:18, who was to build the Church… was it the Apostles or Christ?

Christ.

• As recorded in the Gospel of Matthew 16:18, How many Apostles were given the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven?

Peter-- see verse 19

• As recorded in John 21, how many Apostles were told directly by Christ to “Feed my lambs…, Feed my lambs…, Feed my sheep”?

One

• As recorded in Matthew 16:18, how many Apostles had their name changed to mean “rock”?

One

• What does it mean when God has changed someone’s name? Does He have a special mission for them? Think of Abram to Abraham…, Jacob to Israel…, Simon to Kepha (rock)…, Saul to Paul… Was is just a whim, or was there a meaning and purpose in all these name changes?

There was a purpose.

• As recorded in Matthew 16:18, how many Apostles were told they were the rock of the Church to correspond with their name change?

One

• Christ established Peter as head of the Apostles.

What does this mean and how do we see this working out in the rest of Scripture?

So, if you believe that the Apostles followed Christ, then they also followed and kept what Christ established, which was an office of “Prime Minister” to stand in as the King was going back home to Heaven.

Where in Scripture do we see the apostles deferring to Peter as thee supreme head of the church?

A good definition is found in New Advent encyclopedia: Vicar of Christ
It is founded on the words of the Divine Shepherd to St. Peter: “Feed my lambs. . . . Feed my sheep” (John 21:16-17), by which He constituted the Prince of the Apostles guardian of His entire flock in His own place, thus making him His Vicar and fulfilling the promise made in Matthew 16:18-19.

Is there any indications in the NT that any apostle looked upon or states the Peter is the Prince of the Apostles?
Is these anything in any of the letters that makes you think that the other apostles thought of him as the guradian of the flock? I can’t think of one verse to support this. In fact Paul mentions that false teachers would come in among the disciples but he never mentions anything about Peter protecting them. Perhaps he was unaware of this.

The post of Vicar doesn’t mean the pope is top man, as the true Head of the Church is Christ. St Peter has primacy as head of the sacred ministers, the visible leader of the Church, and the symbol of unity of the Church. He has full, supreme, immediate, and universal power as given to him by the Son of God. This is God’s plan. It is not man’s plan. Christ came with a mission from the Father, and the Apostles were given a mission from Christ. The leader of the Apostles was St Peter, as established by Christ.

This goes way beyond what the Scriptures say about him.

I don’t have much hope you will answer these correctly on this board. I hope at least somewhere in the ja4 mind, the truth is starting to make inroads.

View attachment 3853

 

[justasking4]

no. you cannot prove He exists. anyway you have missed my point.

:knight2: :knight2:

What was your point that i missed?

 

[rikkk1958]

I say that this thread will not go away, otherwise it will be changed with a different question but the same meaning. However, due to some new comers this will always be debated in the same manner and hopefully some will understand the true answer. What makes the Catholic Church a religion to be envied is because some who had been outside the church and never grasped the history of the church will always question the position of the church. Martin Luther King and some Arian followers made up their decision to defer on church’s teachings that up to this day different sects and religions sprouting like weeds. The Gospel is right about this apostacy. The whole point is, if you are a catholic and knows how the Church was founded, you will never abandon the Way, the Life, and the Truth. Because after all, if you abandon the Church the Word founded then you call the Founder a liar.

 

[Cinette]

As someone who is catholic and was raised in the faith, I find this truly offensive that the Pope would make a statement like this. It is making me seriously consider leaving the church. As long as popele believe in God and the holy trinity, why does it matter whether they believe as catholics, methodists, lutherans, etc? I think Benedict has gone too far with this statement and I do believe it is going to hurt the catholic church in the long run.​

widecircles.com

All I can say is a big WOW. YOU think the church must conform to your opinion and likes and dislikes. Sounds to me that you should first learn about your Faith because making statements like that.

Our Holy Father is a great scholar, a humble and holy man, an intellectual, a consecrated priest who has been appointed Pope by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Don’t forget that. If you do not understand something or if it makes you frown you should look it up or ask a Priest. But don’t make statements like that!

:tsktsk: :whacky:

 

[Ignatius]

Which church is God’s true church? Is it the Roman Catholic Church?

I believe that it is the Roman Catholic Church.

Catholic.net - Catholics on the net

I believe you are correct.