Which Church teachings do you struggle to accept?

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I do not and will not believe this. Period. The first part I mean
Not believing the earth is of a roundish nature does not make it flat.

Yes our state at the moment of death is pivotal (living in true life or already in the death of unrepented mortal sin)

For a Catholic to go to hell - he who has been baptized into Christ -given true life in him –

-“a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end” (Catchism 1037).

The end part there means to the moment of our leaving this earthly life…our “end” here.
 
I do not and will not believe this. Period. The first part I mean
Yeah, it’s a little difficult especially if you wonder about Adolph Hitler. What if he repented just before he drew his last breath ?

According to literal interpretation of Church teaching by some, he ends up in heaven and those un-baptized he slaughtered in the Holocaust are burning in hell. :eek:

Jim
 
Not read the whole thread so excuse if a duplicate. It is not acceptable or credible that what I priest does does not affect the consecration at mass. Period. Purity cannot pass through impurity.
Yes even a Priest who is in mortal sin - can validly Consecrate the Eucharist. The Church Taught since the early centuries that the sinfulness of the Priest does not effect the Sacrament (the idea that it did was condemned).

Just like if I was in mortal sin and I had to baptize a dying person - my sin will not prevent the Sacrament from taking place.

Why?

Because Jesus is not going to let the sinfulness of persons keep him from giving us the Sacraments.

Remember it is the Holy Spirit who comes …it is Christ who is acting…and he is always the Pure Priest.
 
Jesus desires the salvation of all. Even the most terrible of sinners.

He wants us all to repent and come to life. All to receive the grace of true life in him.
 
As well you shouldn’t!

The determination is God’s alone.
Thank you! I once read an " example" of how someone falling off a cliff would not be saved if he did not say an act of contrition before he hit the ground… NB never forget either that many when very ill ie near death will think and say terrible things simply because the illness is affecting their brain. Only God really knows us. Thankfully! And everyone is capable of falling on occasion
 
If someone lives an evil life - and has the grace of repentance - that is the mercy of God.

Mercy seeks the salvation of all of us…

Jesus desires the salvation of all. Even the most terrible of sinners.

He wants us all to repent and come to life. All to receive the grace of true life in him.
 
Thank you! I once read an " example" of how someone falling off a cliff would not be saved if he did not say an act of contrition before he hit the ground… NB never forget either that many when very ill ie near death will think and say terrible things simply because the illness is affecting their brain. Only God really knows us. Thankfully! And everyone is capable of falling on occasion
One need not “say” an act of contrition but one needs to be “in life” to enter into life when one dies.

And God can reach a person in even the very last moment in ways we do not know or guess. Jesus can reach them and they can enter into life. (though we are not to presume on such in our case -but quickly go to confession - as I noted above.)

As to those in ones last illness - various things can yes effect their culpability as you note.

For a mortal sin one needs grave matter, full knowledge and deliberate consent.
 
As well you shouldn’t!

The determination is God’s alone.
Only God can determine if someone has had full knowledge and consent to a sin that is grave matter and thus has committed a mortal sin. Only he can say if they repented or not. However anyone who has an unrepentant mortal sin when they die will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.
 
Yeah, it’s a little difficult especially if you wonder about Adolph Hitler. What if he repented just before he drew his last breath ?

According to literal interpretation of Church teaching by some, he ends up in heaven and those un-baptized he slaughtered in the Holocaust are burning in hell. :eek:

Jim
Now you are complicating the issue… 🙂 Nor do I believe that the lack of earthly baptism will condemn anyone to burning in hell …God is wiser and more loving than that. In an old graveyard in Donegal there is a grave of twin baby girls, both called Mary. A local man walking his dog told me the history that the midwife knowing the babies would not live baptised them both Mary as it was the only name she could think of in the few seconds she had. Outside the graveyard the killeens threatened, where the unbaptised were buried. That kind of terror is surely alien to God. And I leave all that to God, even Hitler. Not for me to judge anyone so I do not
 
Not believing the earth is of a roundish nature does not make it flat.

Yes our state at the moment of death is pivotal (living in true life or already in the death of unrepented mortal sin)

For a Catholic to go to hell - he who has been baptized into Christ -given true life in him –

-“a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end” (Catchism 1037).

The end part there means to the moment of our leaving this earthly life…our “end” here.
So if I have been terribly hurt by someone and am still working against my anger etc and am run over by a bus? And I dispute your interpretation of " to the end"
 
**Not believing the earth is of a roundish nature does not make it flat.
**
Yes our state at the moment of death is pivotal (living in true life or already in the death of unrepented mortal sin)

For a Catholic to go to hell - he who has been baptized into Christ -given true life in him –

-“a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end” (Catchism 1037).

The end part there means to the moment of our leaving this earthly life…our “end” here.
😦
 
That is what I struggle to accept. People here are saying that their animals will be in heaven, and the Pope said so, which implies that their pets will live for all eternity in heaven. The only way you can live for all eternity is to have an immortal soul. I thought that only humans have immortal souls. To say that animals have immortals souls would seem to be a change in Catholic teaching.
Not everything the Pope says becomes ‘Catholic doctrine’. For example when the Holy Father made the statement about Martians being baptised that does not make it ‘Catholic doctrine’. In order for it become doctrine he would have to proclaim publicly:

**a) that he is speaking *ex cathedra ***(from the Seat of Peter);

b) by the authority of the Magisterium (Pope and Bishops who lay down what is authentic Catholic Teaching) and;

c) define a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church

The above criteria must be met before it can be declared a Catholic Teaching. When the above occurs the Papal pronouncement is* infallible*.

No doctrine of the Catholic faith has ever been changed. No-one on earth including the Pope has the authority to change doctrine no matter how badly some theologians may want it to or how loudly they claim it can. The doctrines of the Catholic Church are the deposit of faith revealed by Jesus Christ, taught by the apostles, and handed down in their entirety by the apostles to their successors.

On the other hand Catholic disciplines can and have been changed.

Examples of Discipline below from Fr Charles Grodin posted on CAF JULY 7/2012 -

"there is nothing inherently wrong with eating meat on a Friday. It is a discipline of the Church that on Fridays in Lent we abstain from eating meat for our spiritual enrichment. Disciplines, because they are not truths, can change. At one time the Church discipline was to abstain from eating meat on all Fridays of the year.

In the case of celibacy, there is nothing inherently wrong with married priests. In fact, the Eastern Catholic Churches has always had married priests. In the Western/Latin Church we have also had exceptions such as married Anglican clergy who converted to become Catholic priests and are married. The traditional discipline of celibacy has been asked of priests as an imitation of Jesus Christ. It spiritually connects the priest to his ministry in a way that is unique. A priest of the Latin Church is spiritually, physically, emotionally, etc. given completely over to his priestly ministry through the visible sign of celibacy."
 
So if I have been terribly hurt by someone and am still working against my anger etc and am run over by a bus? And I dispute your interpretation of " to the end"
Working against anger is not deliberate full consent. The mortal sin of hate implies you wish grave harm on him also. Again with full consent.
 
So if I have been terribly hurt by someone and am still working against my anger etc and am run over by a bus? And I dispute your interpretation of " to the end"
  1. A person can repent of sinful anger and still be working against the feeling of anger (growing indeed in virtue).
  2. We are talking about mortal sin - not venial sin or even justified anger. Or even feelings of anger that do not involve sin.
  3. An emotional outburst of anger is often a venial sin (a good example of grave matter for mortal sin in anger is departing from charity by say deliberately desiring to kill the person or otherwise gravely harm them).
  4. For mortal sin one needs grave matter, full knowledge and complete consent.
To the end is what I have noted -it has been understood as such for ages…and that was a quote from the Catechism.
 
I do not and will not believe this. Period. The first part I mean
It is an infallible Church teaching that anyone dying in a state of mortal sin goes immediately to Hell. If a Catholic rejects that teaching they commit heresy and are in a state of mortal sin.
 
As well you shouldn’t!

The determination is God’s alone.
That is not true. God does not send anyone to Hell. The choice of our destination is ours and ours alone. God gave us freewill to accept his love or reject it. Anyone who dies in a state of mortal sin has freely chosen to go to Hell and be eternally separated from God.
 
For any mortal sin one needs not only grave matter -but full knowledge and deliberate consent.
 
That is not true. God does not send anyone to Hell. The choice of our destination is ours and ours alone. God gave us freewill to accept his love or reject it. Anyone who dies in a state of mortal sin has freely chosen to go to Hell and be eternally separated from God.
You mis-understand my meaning…

The determination (judgement) is God’s alone.
 
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