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reteeks21
Guest
Can you show me where you got that Billy Graham is anti-Catholic?
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Cat
Guest
This is incorrect.
Chuck Colson and Father John Richard Neuhaus met together for many months before starting the group, “Evangelicals and Catholics Together.”
Colson has stated many times that the Catholic Church is a Christian church. He does not believe it is THE Christian Church, but he definitely recognizes the Church as a true Christian church, not a cult, and admits that the Catholic Church believes and teaches all the “fundamentals” of the faith that Protestants teach.
Colson’s book, Being the Body, is incredibly complimentary of the Catholic Church. In fact, this book is one reason why I left the evangelical Protestant church and converted to Catholicism.
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Cat
Guest
In answer to the question of the OP, I would say the Christian and Missionary Alliance denomination (C&MA).
This denomination started in the early 20th Century as a branch of Presbyterianism, which is a “Calvinist” denomination (actually Knox, not John Calvin, started Presbyterianism).
The denomination is not large in the U.S. It is highly unusual to find a local C&MA church with more than a few hundred members. It is a demanding Protestant dneomination, as many of these churches give 50% of their total church budget to FOREIGN MISSIONS. This is hard for many Americans to agree with, as they think that the monies should be spent in our own country first. So the C&MA doesn’t exactly draw in the eager crowds.
The C&MA sends a larger percentage per membership of missionaries to countries outside of the U.S. than any other denomination. That includes big missionary-minded denoms like the Assemblies of God and the Southern Baptists. The C&MA leaves them in the dust.
The C&MA is very respectful of non-American cultures, and even employs ethnomusicologists to work with locals to write hymns and spiritual songs in the “music of the people.” The C&MA does not try to “Americanize” converts.
Many hundreds of C&MA missionaries have been martyred in countries outside of the U.S. They truly love the Lord and the people they work with, and are willing to give their lives for the Gospel.
Many C&MA missionaries testify of resistance in other countries primarily from Catholic churches and clergy. I have heard and read many testimonies from C&MA missionaries who are quite opposed to Catholicism.
Obviously I can see how the Catholic Church resents Protestants trying to convert Catholic Christians to Christianity, and tries to oppose this in various countries.
But I cannot see why Catholic churches and priests would object to the many humanitarian outreaches that the C&MA has established in various mission fields. The clinics are especially valuable. The C&MA is utterly opposed to abortion, so that is not the issue. The C&MA medical clinics are amazing; at least one C&MA doctor has been instrumental in discovering treatment for Hanson’s Disease (leprosy).
The pastor of our C&MA church had no liking for Catholics. He and his family (four children, all born overseas) served as missionaries in Viet Nam from the 1950s until 1972, when Saigon fell and the American soldiers took out all Americans. He said that the Catholics were very hostile towards them and all the other C&MA and Protestant missionaries in Viet Nam.
A lot of the C&MA missionaries to Latin countries (in Central and South America, and of course, Mexico) testify of the “pagan” Catholicism, a strange mix in which the people are Catholic, but continue to worship the ancestors, fear the evil spirits (demons), keep an altar with an idol, wear lucky charms, etc. The C&MA missionaries–rightfully, IMO–think that Catholicism is worthless if it does not demand that the converts totally renounce all ties to Satanism and the occult.
It has been about twenty years since my family was part of the C&MA, but we have continued to receive the denominational magazine. I have read some anti-Catholic stuff in the magazine (mainly the denouncements of pagan practices among Latino Catholics), but not as much as I used to. I suspect that in this day and age of international terrorism and the rapid advance of Islam, that perhaps the C&MA has softened its stance against Catholics, and has chosen to work with them rather than speak against them. I’m not sure if the Catholic Church has reciprocated the charitable attitudes, but I suspect that under Pope John Paul II, a more ecumenical and cooperative atmosphere became the norm in Christian mission fields outside of the U.S. I hope so.
This denomination started in the early 20th Century as a branch of Presbyterianism, which is a “Calvinist” denomination (actually Knox, not John Calvin, started Presbyterianism).
The denomination is not large in the U.S. It is highly unusual to find a local C&MA church with more than a few hundred members. It is a demanding Protestant dneomination, as many of these churches give 50% of their total church budget to FOREIGN MISSIONS. This is hard for many Americans to agree with, as they think that the monies should be spent in our own country first. So the C&MA doesn’t exactly draw in the eager crowds.
The C&MA sends a larger percentage per membership of missionaries to countries outside of the U.S. than any other denomination. That includes big missionary-minded denoms like the Assemblies of God and the Southern Baptists. The C&MA leaves them in the dust.
The C&MA is very respectful of non-American cultures, and even employs ethnomusicologists to work with locals to write hymns and spiritual songs in the “music of the people.” The C&MA does not try to “Americanize” converts.
Many hundreds of C&MA missionaries have been martyred in countries outside of the U.S. They truly love the Lord and the people they work with, and are willing to give their lives for the Gospel.
Many C&MA missionaries testify of resistance in other countries primarily from Catholic churches and clergy. I have heard and read many testimonies from C&MA missionaries who are quite opposed to Catholicism.
Obviously I can see how the Catholic Church resents Protestants trying to convert Catholic Christians to Christianity, and tries to oppose this in various countries.
But I cannot see why Catholic churches and priests would object to the many humanitarian outreaches that the C&MA has established in various mission fields. The clinics are especially valuable. The C&MA is utterly opposed to abortion, so that is not the issue. The C&MA medical clinics are amazing; at least one C&MA doctor has been instrumental in discovering treatment for Hanson’s Disease (leprosy).
The pastor of our C&MA church had no liking for Catholics. He and his family (four children, all born overseas) served as missionaries in Viet Nam from the 1950s until 1972, when Saigon fell and the American soldiers took out all Americans. He said that the Catholics were very hostile towards them and all the other C&MA and Protestant missionaries in Viet Nam.
A lot of the C&MA missionaries to Latin countries (in Central and South America, and of course, Mexico) testify of the “pagan” Catholicism, a strange mix in which the people are Catholic, but continue to worship the ancestors, fear the evil spirits (demons), keep an altar with an idol, wear lucky charms, etc. The C&MA missionaries–rightfully, IMO–think that Catholicism is worthless if it does not demand that the converts totally renounce all ties to Satanism and the occult.
It has been about twenty years since my family was part of the C&MA, but we have continued to receive the denominational magazine. I have read some anti-Catholic stuff in the magazine (mainly the denouncements of pagan practices among Latino Catholics), but not as much as I used to. I suspect that in this day and age of international terrorism and the rapid advance of Islam, that perhaps the C&MA has softened its stance against Catholics, and has chosen to work with them rather than speak against them. I’m not sure if the Catholic Church has reciprocated the charitable attitudes, but I suspect that under Pope John Paul II, a more ecumenical and cooperative atmosphere became the norm in Christian mission fields outside of the U.S. I hope so.
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ChristIsLord
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my list is as follows:
- mormonism
- SDA
- southern baptists
- evangelicals
- eastern orthodox
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rolltidefan
Guest
Well first of all any “Christian” that judges another by saying they are aren’t “Christian” is sinning itself. That is not for us to determine. We will stand in judgement before a God that will do that for us one day. I just had a problem with you saying “BAD” which was exactly your quote. With that I took you saying that MY church is bad which is the Church of God organization. There would be no difference if I had come in here and said the same of yours in which I would have never done. Again, I am not saying that some churches probably do say negative things about the Catholics. Just as I said I know there are Catholics that say negative things about us. Does that make a differerence?? I don’t think either should be running the other down. And yes I happen to know of 3 Catholics who are attending my church that would NEVER say anything negative about the Catholic church. I don’t think you Catholics realize that some of the other churches don’t set around and have you or your beliefs as topics as much as you would like to think. I think we have more praising and worshiping of God to worry about what you are doing.
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rolltidefan
Guest
BTW, Raphinal…I am not saying that you have judged. I don’t think you have. I was just making a statement about the judgemental remarks and that as a Christian I would never make them against any religion that claimed to be Christian. Also, I would not judge anybody regardless. Thanks for the talk though. Just wanted to clarify that so that I would not step on your toes as I would not want to do this.
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ralphinal
Guest
I was not offended. I did not intend to offend you, either.
I, for one, do not think that a majority of the non-Catholic churches ever discuss the Catholic church at all. For example, there is a good bit of anti-Catholic sentament at the Baptist Church in the town where I grew up (and still work). Now, all of the preachers that they have had in the last 20+ years have been good about saying that Catholics are CHristian and promoting good relationships. However, in some of the Sunday school classes for adults, it is the opposite. Now, is that particular baptist church fostering anti-Catholic attitudes? I do not know. On the one hand, the official leadership is working against it. On the other hand, some of the rank and file members are not hearing the message. I am not sure what to think about it.
I do not want you to think that I think that CoG or CoC denominations are inherently anti-Catholic. I do not. I am not shocked if the Catholic CHurch is never mentioned at all. I do think that there are members of some of these churches that are anti-Catholic, though. Just like there are Catholics who are anti-Protestants.
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rolltidefan
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Completely agree! The only time that I had ever heard anything mentioned about the Catholic church in my church was one time we had this guy come in to give his testimony…he had been put in jail…well a Catholic priest had been praying and was showed that he was to go to the jail and pray for this young man…so the Catholic priest went and this guy said that when the priest prayed for him that it was the most moving prayer and how much of God he felt in that prayer. This was a Charismatic priest and so he prayed in tongues when he prayed for this guy. Anyway, that is the only thing that I have ever heard mention about the Catholic church in my church and I think that representation was high and this guy thought well of the Catholic church as Christians. I personally would not sit in any church that dogged another denomination. No matter what religion, as I think we have more to be concerned about as Christians than to be doing this.
Also, I live in the Northwest corner of Alabama, right on Mississippi line…where about in the state are you from?? I think that might make a big difference in tolerance for some on both sides. In a small Mississippi town about 30 minutes from me, they have what they call a “community service” and the Catholic church there actually participates with this. I think that is great! I think in some ways some areas are coming a long way. Also though we don’t have that many Catholic churches in our area. I can think of only 4 within a hour drive from my home and 1 within 30 minutes. I actually never knew that much about Catholics until I married one. I lived in Louisiana for quite a while and had neighbors and friends that were, but during my younger teenage years it was just not something we discussed or I guess cared about at that time, we had BOYS on the brain! lol I left behind some very loved friends there that did practice the faith. Then moved to Alabama and we just don’t have that many churches here, so none of my friends were Catholic. I think it was rougher actually for me to be CoG (pentecostal) and had to grow up with what the Baptist were saying to us than anything. Anyway, so good to talk to an ALABAMA person!! lol
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ralphinal
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I am near Birmingham, in Trussville. The numbers on Catholics in Alabama are strange. Prior to the influx of hispanics, less that 10% of the population was CAtholic, usually around 5-7%. 40% of the Catholics in Alabama live within an hour of Birmingham, with the next largest groups in Huntsville and Mobile.
Where in NW Alabama are you? I am familiar with some of that area.
Overall, Baptists make life tough on all of us
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Walden
Guest
There are a couple of us. Anyway, I know what you mean. Most posters on here don’t realize that unless you live in a bigger city (Birmingham, Montgomery, Mobile), there just aren’t that many Catholic Churches. There was one in the town I grew up, but you’d need to drive over 30 minutes to find another.
In Alabama at least, the various denominations are not really actively anti-Catholic because there just aren’t that many around. It’s kind of like a non-issue for most. They are too busy finding fault with the CoC down the street or the Pentecostal megachurch across town.
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Psalm4
Guest
Saying that a denomination is ‘bad,’ in the context of this thread, simply means that their attitude towards Catholicism is negative. It doesn’t mean the denomination is bad in and of itself. You are free to disagree about whether or not a denomination is anti-Catholic, but calling it that is not an insult. It’s just the observation of a trend! And, as noted on this thread previously, there are MANY individual exceptions.
Also, it is not a sin to call a “Christian” church non-Christian. This is an objective statement that can be made based on a survey of a denomination’s beliefs. For example, if a church calls itself Christian but decides to believe that Jesus is not God, we could objectively say that they are not Christian, even though they consider themselves to be, because they don’t fit the definition Christian. This doesn’t mean that they aren’t sincere in their beliefs or that they will go to hell.
Finally, keep in mind that the anti-Catholic attitudes tend to be expressed OUTSIDE of church services. I don’t know of any pastor who would use his sermon to bash a particular religion. So it’s possible to attend an anti-Catholic church without noticing any bias. The bias tends to be among the people, outside of church, manifested in their attitudes and comments. For example, a Methodist friend of mine has made anti-Catholic statements directly to me, though I’m sure she never heard them during the Methodist worship services she attends!
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rolltidefan
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So you are only about 2 hours from me then. I live in a little town called Red Bay. It is quite small, but actually pretty well known because of the Allegro Motorhomes or “Tiffin” motorhomes. It is the hometown of the famous Alabama kicker, Van Tiffin. Also his son which is Leigh Tiffin. Anyway, it is good to meet you. I agree with you also about the growth of Catholics due to the hispanics. I know in the little town nearest me that has a Catholic church, which is Russellville, Alabama, the Catholic church there has grown a lot. However, it is mostly due to the Hispanics and they also have a Spanish Mass. All in all, I think here in these parts of Alabama, we all just get along and mind our own business. Great place to live though in my opinion. Again, it is good to meet you. Glad you made the comment earlier or I wouldn’t have!!! lolI am near Birmingham, in Trussville. The numbers on Catholics in Alabama are strange. Prior to the influx of hispanics, less that 10% of the population was CAtholic, usually around 5-7%. 40% of the Catholics in Alabama live within an hour of Birmingham, with the next largest groups in Huntsville and Mobile.
Where in NW Alabama are you? I am familiar with some of that area.
Overall, Baptists make life tough on all of us
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rolltidefan
Guest
Hey Walden…Good to meet you also. It is nice to see people from your home state on here. I don’t know about you, but it is WAY TOO COLD for me right now here. It is like 25 degrees!!! HATE IT. I guess I need to move further south in Alabama. lol
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Walden
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And to you! It is a bit chilly down this way as well.
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grampben
Guest
Sounds like a CAF blacklist
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rolltidefan
Guest
After talking to Ralphinal, I don’t think they meant it to be “bad” comment at all. However, I think some could take it as that. I think if I had come on here and stated it in the same way, but used Catholic in the place of the other denominations that I would have been jumped on so fast by the Catholics on here that my head would have spun!
I disagree with the fact about whether it is wrong to call a Christian church nonchristian. You either are or you ain’t. No two ways about it. Anyway, just my 2 cents on that and not worth arguing. I know where I stand and I will be the only one that answers to God for where I stand.
As far as preachers, priest or etc, using the pulpit to say something about another denomination, you are wrong there also. I have been in churches before, nope not mine, and I would rather not say because I don’t believe in talking and putting down other beliefs, but they have said things about others. It actully wasn’t even said about the Catholics, it was said about the pentecostals. As I said earlier also, I have been to a mass with my husband in 2008 and something was said by the priest about the Anglican church, so yes it does happen. No, I don’t think they should use that as place to say things as that. Neither do I think anything should be said outside about others religions also. It just isn’t right to degrade someones religion in that manner, no matter if you agree or disagree with what they believe. Now I am not saying that you cannot state what you believe, but you know as well as I do that there is a proper way that you can do that and still be respected. Forcing your beliefs on someone has never or will never work. As the old saying goes, you can catch alot more bees with honey than with vinegar!! lol Anyway, good to meet you. God Bless You
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grampben
Guest
There seems to be confusion about the reformed churches.
Most of these churches understand the blatantly anti-catholic elements of the confessions to be products of the time and situation, rather than doctrine.
For example my denomination, the Presbyterian Church in Ireland, adheres to the Westminster Confession of Faith, which calls the Pope the anti-christ. But many moderators have said this is unlikely and is probably untrue.
Then again, here in Northern Ireland we have more reason than most for ecumenism
Most of these churches understand the blatantly anti-catholic elements of the confessions to be products of the time and situation, rather than doctrine.
For example my denomination, the Presbyterian Church in Ireland, adheres to the Westminster Confession of Faith, which calls the Pope the anti-christ. But many moderators have said this is unlikely and is probably untrue.
Then again, here in Northern Ireland we have more reason than most for ecumenism
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Rleng616
Guest
My experience has been the Seventh Day Adventists, followed by Jehovah Witnesses.
In my experience, although they may be cordial, they believe the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon and the Pope is the Anti Christ.
Bob
In my experience, although they may be cordial, they believe the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon and the Pope is the Anti Christ.
Bob
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ChristianKnight
Guest
Where is your proof for Southern Baptists being Anti-Catholic?
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