C
CopticChristian
Guest
Bucket,
I anticipate I will get resistance. I joined. I see nothing. I suppose I need to be approved. If asked, I will tell them you sent me.
I am not a fan of 12 steps and may cause some boat rocking.
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I anticipate I will get resistance. I joined. I see nothing. I suppose I need to be approved. If asked, I will tell them you sent me.
I am not a fan of 12 steps and may cause some boat rocking.
T
The_Bucket
Guest
Well I suggest not posting then. People are trying their darndest to get out of their addiction to these terrible sins and I don’t think you’d want to be counter-productive and hurt their recovery.Bucket,
I anticipate I will get resistance. I joined. I see nothing. I suppose I need to be approved. If asked, I will tell them you sent me.
I am not a fan of 12 steps and may cause some boat rocking.
F
fix
Guest
The first sentence is a statement of fact. The second sentence is also a fact. The third sentence is a fact and is taken from the Vatican website.All three of those sentences are, without a doubt, crazy. And this is coming from a guy who does not support gay adoption.
F
fix
Guest
The key is to use emotion as your guide. Not emotion governed by intellect and will but one conformed to the world. That way truth will be seen as hate.Where do you find any post, any thread that any addict in their addiction is posting that we must understand them in their addiction.
T
The_Bucket
Guest
Are you serious? You have little understanding about addiction and little compassion for anyone. If you had understanding, you’d know that the first few steps in recovering from addiction involve taking responsibility for your sinful/addictive actions, admitting that you cannot defeat them on your own and then surrendering to God’s will. His will, of course, is that addicts get out of their addiction and end their sinful behaviors.The key is to use emotion as your guide. Not emotion governed by intellect and will but one conformed to the world. That way truth will be seen as hate.
That said, I’m genuinely happy that the Lord has kept you from all temptation and grave sin. You should thank Him every day for that. It’s an amazing gift.
F
fix
Guest
My post referred to “gays” acting as parents. Whether they are addicted or not is a separate matter. You said my words were crazy. I pointed out they are not crazy and in fact are correct. Children have rights.Are you serious? You have little understanding about addiction and little compassion for anyone. If you had understanding, you’d know that the first few steps in recovering from addiction involve taking responsibility for your sinful/addictive actions, admitting that you cannot defeat them on your own and then surrendering to God’s will. His will, of course, is that addicts get out of their addiction and end their sinful behaviors.
That said, I’m genuinely happy that the Lord has kept you from all temptation and grave sin. You should thank Him every day for that. It’s an amazing gift.
F
fix
Guest
Children have rights. No one is saying not to have compassion. What I am saying is to not use false compassion to further your agenda.Are you serious? You have little understanding about addiction and little compassion for anyone. If you had understanding, you’d know that the first few steps in recovering from addiction involve taking responsibility for your sinful/addictive actions, admitting that you cannot defeat them on your own and then surrendering to God’s will. His will, of course, is that addicts get out of their addiction and end their sinful behaviors.
That said, I’m genuinely happy that the Lord has kept you from all temptation and grave sin. You should thank Him every day for that. It’s an amazing gift.
C
CopticChristian
Guest
Bucket,Well I suggest not posting then. People are trying their darndest to get out of their addiction to these terrible sins and I don’t think you’d want to be counter-productive and hurt their recovery.
So you believe that if there is real aid, knowing that the 12 steps is not the best way, or the only way…and I oppose the 12 steps knowing
There are better ways
There are other ways
You suggest I do not suggest better ways and ways that do not suggest you are powerless, rather perpetuating that you are a victim…
Ok…
C
CopticChristian
Guest
Bucket,Are you serious? You have little understanding about addiction and little compassion for anyone. If you had understanding, you’d know that the first few steps in recovering from addiction involve taking responsibility for your sinful/addictive actions, admitting that you cannot defeat them on your own and then surrendering to God’s will. His will, of course, is that addicts get out of their addiction and end their sinful behaviors.
That said, I’m genuinely happy that the Lord has kept you from all temptation and grave sin. You should thank Him every day for that. It’s an amazing gift.
This is the 12 step paradigm that in alcohol as an addiction ranks about 37/48 out of methods that work better…
You don’t have to
Admit you are powerless
Believe that the only way to resolve them is by continuing to do the steps…
There are other better ways…so your exasperation is based on accepting a faulty paradigm that when someone says something other than what you know and believe you say…
Are you serious?
Yes, just as serious as you and knowing that what you learned may not help everyone.
T
The_Bucket
Guest
I’m only a victim insofar as I hurt myself with my own actions. I am powerless to change myself but God can change me if I let Him. I fail to see how this does not perfectly line up with Christianity and specifically with the teachings of Paul.
The good that I do comes not from me, but from me allowing myself to be a conduit for Christ’s love. The evil that I do, however, comes from me. We are all called to be what Paul called himself; “a slave to Christ.” We are called to surrender control of our lives to God no matter what our vocation. Some do this through entering the monastic life. Others give themselves to God and His will despite living in the world. These lay people with families or still single live in the world but are not of the world.
For if we are not slaves to Christ, to whom are we slaves? Ourselves and Satan. Certainly we all have free will but we also have a tendency towards sin. Original sin is wiped out at baptism but the propensity to sin remains. The only way to escape that propensity is to fully surrender one’s life to God.
The “illness” model is not one to which I adhere and honestly I don’t see it in others either. Certainly there are those in my groups who had terrible starts and were true victims themselves. But that does not absolve them from their actions. In my own case, nothing that happened in my childhood, as rocky as it was, excuses the choices I made later. The choices I made to sin. The choices I made to avoid repentance out of shame and pride.
I’m a victim but I’m also the perpetrator. I harmed myself but I also harmed others greatly. I’m responsible for the harm I committed against myself and my relationship with God, as well as the harm I did to others.
I am powerless to control my behavior insofar as we are all powerless to resist Satan without God’s intervention. No more and no less.
The good that I do comes not from me, but from me allowing myself to be a conduit for Christ’s love. The evil that I do, however, comes from me. We are all called to be what Paul called himself; “a slave to Christ.” We are called to surrender control of our lives to God no matter what our vocation. Some do this through entering the monastic life. Others give themselves to God and His will despite living in the world. These lay people with families or still single live in the world but are not of the world.
For if we are not slaves to Christ, to whom are we slaves? Ourselves and Satan. Certainly we all have free will but we also have a tendency towards sin. Original sin is wiped out at baptism but the propensity to sin remains. The only way to escape that propensity is to fully surrender one’s life to God.
The “illness” model is not one to which I adhere and honestly I don’t see it in others either. Certainly there are those in my groups who had terrible starts and were true victims themselves. But that does not absolve them from their actions. In my own case, nothing that happened in my childhood, as rocky as it was, excuses the choices I made later. The choices I made to sin. The choices I made to avoid repentance out of shame and pride.
I’m a victim but I’m also the perpetrator. I harmed myself but I also harmed others greatly. I’m responsible for the harm I committed against myself and my relationship with God, as well as the harm I did to others.
I am powerless to control my behavior insofar as we are all powerless to resist Satan without God’s intervention. No more and no less.
C
CopticChristian
Guest
Bucket,.
The “illness” model is not one to which I adhere and honestly I don’t see it in others either. Certainly there are those in my groups who had terrible starts and were true victims themselves. But that does not absolve them from their actions. In my own case, nothing that happened in my childhood, as rocky as it was, excuses the choices I made later. The choices I made to sin. The choices I made to avoid repentance out of shame and pride.
I’m a victim but I’m also the perpetrator. I harmed myself but I also harmed others greatly. I’m responsible for the harm I committed against myself and my relationship with God, as well as the harm I did to others.
I am powerless to control my behavior insofar as we are all powerless to resist Satan without God’s intervention. No more and no less.
Apply this thinking to Homosexuals…can you?I’m only a victim insofar as I hurt myself with my own actions. I am powerless to change myself but God can change me if I let Him. I fail to see how this does not perfectly line up with Christianity and specifically with the teachings of Paul.
No, by grace you have been saved, through Faith working in love…without the grace of God you can do nothing on your own…by assent to the Will of God…The good that I do comes not from me, but from me allowing myself to be a conduit for Christ’s love. The evil that I do, however, comes from me. We are all called to be what Paul called himself; “a slave to Christ.” We are called to surrender control of our lives to God no matter what our vocation. Some do this through entering the monastic life. Others give themselves to God and His will despite living in the world. These lay people with families or still single live in the world but are not of the world
The 12 steps are Protestant in nature and have a mechanics about them that do not line up with Catholic teaching, although many believe they do…Canon 6 Council of Orange…we do what we do by the Grace of God…
CANON 6. If anyone says that God has mercy upon us when, apart from his grace, we believe, will, desire, strive, labor, pray, watch, study, seek, ask, or knock, but does not confess that it is by the infusion and inspiration of the Holy Spirit within us that we have the faith, the will, or the strength to do all these things as we ought; or if anyone makes the assistance of grace depend on the humility or obedience of man and does not agree that it is a gift of grace itself that we are obedient and humble, he contradicts the Apostle who says, “What have you that you did not receive?” (1 Cor. 4:7), and, “But by the grace of God I am what I am” (1 Cor. 15:10).
You may serve the Devil or you may serve the Lord, but you gotta serve someone…Bob Dylan…For if we are not slaves to Christ, to whom are we slaves? Ourselves and Satan. Certainly we all have free will but we also have a tendency towards sin. Original sin is wiped out at baptism but the propensity to sin remains. The only way to escape that propensity is to fully surrender one’s life to God.
Addict=Addicere=Slave…however see what love the Father has that he calls us to be slaves…no he calls us to be children of God and so we are…
Islam is slave/master…Christianity is Father/Child…
I’m a victim but I’m also the perpetrator. I harmed myself but I also harmed others greatly. I’m responsible for the harm I committed against myself and my relationship with God, as well as the harm I did to others.
Karpman’s triangle, all dysfunctional, you are your own worst enemy on your own…you are all powerful when you assent to the tools you are given…by human habit called virtues that is taught in the Catechism…on your own you can do nothing and by knowing what you have been given you can overcome…I am powerless to control my behavior insofar as we are all powerless to resist Satan without God’s intervention. No more and no less
Sadly the 12 steps are a condemnation of thinking and as you say those that are judging homosexuals, the 12 step disciples, as you have proved condemn anyone that opposes this paradigm, even if means showing that there are better more effective ways to aid a problem…
The paradigm at all costs…because it worked for me…
T
The_Bucket
Guest
I think you’re off-track at least as far as I go. I’m not a disciple of the 12 steps. I’m a disciple of Christ.
The thing that has helped me the most in terms of my understanding as to how to relate to Christ is a book by Fr. Larry Richards called “Surrender.” It has absolutely nothing to do with addiction. It’s just about how to accept God’s love, how to show love for God and how to show God’s love for other people. It’s been invaluable to me in my life.
Perhaps there are some recovering addicts who adhere strictly to the 12 steps as their religion. To that I say, so what? I imagine the vast, vast majority of them were not Catholic to begin with. At least they have God in their lives to some extent. They were once completely lost and are now walking on the right path and hopefully find the Church as part of that journey.
As for me, the 12 steps are not my religion. I am not a disciple of theirs and I do not believe that it is the only way to get sober. I do believe that surrender to God’s will is the only way to live as a disciple of Christ and, therefore, the only way to kick grave sin out of one’s life. There are many different ways, however, to go about that.
The thing that has helped me the most in terms of my understanding as to how to relate to Christ is a book by Fr. Larry Richards called “Surrender.” It has absolutely nothing to do with addiction. It’s just about how to accept God’s love, how to show love for God and how to show God’s love for other people. It’s been invaluable to me in my life.
Perhaps there are some recovering addicts who adhere strictly to the 12 steps as their religion. To that I say, so what? I imagine the vast, vast majority of them were not Catholic to begin with. At least they have God in their lives to some extent. They were once completely lost and are now walking on the right path and hopefully find the Church as part of that journey.
As for me, the 12 steps are not my religion. I am not a disciple of theirs and I do not believe that it is the only way to get sober. I do believe that surrender to God’s will is the only way to live as a disciple of Christ and, therefore, the only way to kick grave sin out of one’s life. There are many different ways, however, to go about that.
C
CopticChristian
Guest
Bucket,I think you’re off-track at least as far as I go. I’m not a disciple of the 12 steps. I’m a disciple of Christ.
The thing that has helped me the most in terms of my understanding as to how to relate to Christ is a book by Fr. Larry Richards called “Surrender.” It has absolutely nothing to do with addiction. It’s just about how to accept God’s love, how to show love for God and how to show God’s love for other people. It’s been invaluable to me in my life.
Perhaps there are some recovering addicts who adhere strictly to the 12 steps as their religion. To that I say, so what? I imagine the vast, vast majority of them were not Catholic to begin with. At least they have God in their lives to some extent. They were once completely lost and are now walking on the right path and hopefully find the Church as part of that journey.
As for me, the 12 steps are not my religion. I am not a disciple of theirs and I do not believe that it is the only way to get sober. I do believe that surrender to God’s will is the only way to live as a disciple of Christ and, therefore, the only way to kick grave sin out of one’s life. There are many different ways, however, to go about that.
I believe your thinking is confused…
You posted the above in response to Homosexual parenting. Your beliefs, your thinking caused you to chide me and others that we are being judgmental by our thinking in this regard…You simply can’t make the judgment calls that you’re making.
You said…and I said…openly and honestly based on how I think and believe…Go join the Impurity Addicts Support Group on these forums. See what it takes for an addict to break the cycle.
you responded…Provide me a link. I may visit. My suspicion is that it will be filled with 12 step disciples that usually have little joy in what I say.
You made a judgement…Well I suggest not posting then. People are trying their darndest to get out of their addiction to these terrible sins and I don’t think you’d want to be counter-productive and hurt their recovery.
You advised me not to post. Why?
I may be counter-productive, because I am not a fan of 12 steps. Opposing 12 steps that is the least effective means of addressing any of these issues and letting people know is counter-productive, you judge. Hurt their recovery implies accepting the paradigm hook line and sinker, once an addict always an addict…I have this disease…
So, my knowing and believing that you and all the others do not have a disease, and are not in recovery, just have bad habits that require other than the 12 steps…
You judge as counter-productive even though I know and could provide insight that may help…you judge…I should not go there…
You do what you want us not to do because while you ask others not to judge you judge…you reveal the inherent nature of your dilema…you are judgmental and see in others what is in yourself…
Think about this…
T
The_Bucket
Guest
I advised you not to post if you’re just going to jump in there and be critical and rock the boat. It’s a support group. It’s not a place to debate the efficacy of 12-step recovery programs. You can do that here or anywhere else.
If you yourself have struggled with addiction and want to provide some advice, then by all means do it. If you just want to “rock the boat” as you said, then don’t.
If you yourself have struggled with addiction and want to provide some advice, then by all means do it. If you just want to “rock the boat” as you said, then don’t.
C
CopticChristian
Guest
Bucket,I advised you not to post if you’re just going to jump in there and be critical and rock the boat. It’s a support group. It’s not a place to debate the efficacy of 12-step recovery programs. You can do that here or anywhere else.
If you yourself have struggled with addiction and want to provide some advice, then by all means do it. If you just want to “rock the boat” as you said, then don’t.
Here again you show a judgment based on the 12 step disease paradigm.
Only an addict can help an addict.
Only an addict can support an addict.
Providing support, providing encouragement in the 12 step paradigm/disease model is only availalble from someone that has been addicted or they have no insight.
So, anyone struggling with depression, can only be supported by someone that has been depressed.
Anyone that has been suicidal and struggles can only be supported by someone that has been suicidal.
Do you see how wrong this is?
T
The_Bucket
Guest
I don’t think you’d completely lack insight, but are you a licensed therapist? Are you a counselor by trade? Or are you just a lay person with no experience but some theories?
Addicts can most certainly get help by counselors, therapists and members of the clergy who have never themselves been addicts but have experience in dealing with the addicted. The only reason I as a lay person have experience with addicts is because I’m one myself. By the way, my experience does not make me more qualified in terms of offering advice to others than people who have histories of counseling the addiction. I merely offer my own experience and what has worked in my life.
I try to avoid giving advice unless asked because I’m just some guy who is struggling to be rid of a terrible vice. I’m not a formally trained counselor or member of the clergy and do not have the same level of expertise as they would.
Addicts can most certainly get help by counselors, therapists and members of the clergy who have never themselves been addicts but have experience in dealing with the addicted. The only reason I as a lay person have experience with addicts is because I’m one myself. By the way, my experience does not make me more qualified in terms of offering advice to others than people who have histories of counseling the addiction. I merely offer my own experience and what has worked in my life.
I try to avoid giving advice unless asked because I’m just some guy who is struggling to be rid of a terrible vice. I’m not a formally trained counselor or member of the clergy and do not have the same level of expertise as they would.
C
CopticChristian
Guest
Bucket,I don’t think you’d completely lack insight, but are you a licensed therapist? Are you a counselor by trade? Or are you just a lay person with no experience but some theories?
Addicts can most certainly get help by counselors, therapists and members of the clergy who have never themselves been addicts but have experience in dealing with the addicted. The only reason I as a lay person have experience with addicts is because I’m one myself. By the way, my experience does not make me more qualified in terms of offering advice to others than people who have histories of counseling the addiction. I merely offer my own experience and what has worked in my life.
I try to avoid giving advice unless asked because I’m just some guy who is struggling to be rid of a terrible vice. I’m not a formally trained counselor or member of the clergy and do not have the same level of expertise as they would.
You are amazing. You judge again by what you do not know. If you were to survey most so called licensed facilities you would find staff without any qualifications, call addiction counselors…this has already been done…seen here…below…
You again show a learned prejudice and judgement.
On average the US treatment system has a one-size-fits-all approach based on the 12-step approach to recovery. Some facilities do a good job, at a reasonable price, in providing this approach. However, most facilities suffer from under-qualified staff, failure to provide sufficient individualization of treatment, failure to provide the latest evidence-based practices, and failure to offer the client adequate information about treatment options. Among the evidence-based practices that are lacking are addiction medications (such as methadone or buprenorphine), which many facilities simply refuse to make available, inadequate assessment practices, and failure to include psychosocial approaches known to work while including others (e.g., confrontation) known to make people worse.
Inside Addiction Treatment…You may think Ms. Fletcher is exaggerating or misrepresenting what she found. Consider a statement in the Handbook of Alcoholism Treatment: Effective Alternatives (3rd ed., 2003, edited by Hester & Miller), in a chapter entitled “What Works? A Summary of Alcohol Treatment Outcome Research,” by Miller, Wilbourne and Hettema. They state that “the negative correlation between scientific evidence and treatment-as-usual remains striking, and could hardly be larger if one intentionally constructed treatment programs from those approaches with the least evidence of efficacy.” The 2nd edition of this book (1995) reached the same conclusion.
thedianerehmshow.org/shows/20…tion-treatment
The book is
Inside Rehab: The Surprising Truth About Addiction Treatment-and How to Get Help That Works
Review of the Book…
K
Kolbe300
Guest
Some do come here to argue against your beliefs, that’s true. You have a right to stand up for what you believe, though you should always do it compassionately. I’ve noticed, however, that the last few threads started on the topic of homosexuality were started by you. When folks who disagree with you join a thread you started, you certainly can’t blame them for starting it.Your thoughts are heartfelt. The tragedy is that based on past postings some do not come here as those that have given up what most of of have in that our ahderence to the flesh or loving our life is losing it.
They believe in the presence of the Holy Spirit and seek blessing from God. I’d say that’s more of a good start than an unforgivable tragedy. We have a choice then: we can tell them how disordered we think they are, how evil we think their actions are, what “derelicts” we believe them to be, or we can show them how and why the Church offers those who seek Christ, even those with a homosexual orientation, a path to do so that is fulfilling and beautiful. Isn’t the best option there obvious?The tragedy is that some are involved in monagamous homosexual relationships, believe that those relationships are blessed, that the Holy Spirit dwelss there in the unions of spirit and flesh and these same people speak…for who…for you or for themselves…?
Here’s the difference that I’ve pointed out more times than I care to count - one cannot be a fornicator without having fornicated. One cannot be a masturbator without having masturbated. One can, however, have a homosexual orientation without ever acting upon it. A homosexual person who decides to live Church teaching will likely not cease to have a homosexual orientation because of it. You are always speaking of the sin, the sin, the sin, the sin. That’s why you refuse to speak of anything other than homosexual behavior. If you’re going to be effective in this area, you have to get past that. If you don’t, your attempts will never be effective. Never.How many do you believe that are on this forum have Fornicated, Masturbated, Lusted…do you see any speaking for the solidarity of those that suffer these sins, speaking as if we should change how we believe to accomodate them?
Three words: The Good News. I want to champion the hope of the Gospel.What do you want to champion?
This is the kind of language that does not, has not, and will never work.We should have threads “which homosexuals and other derelicts are incurable”…that may aid your concern.
C
CopticChristian
Guest
Some do come here to argue against your beliefs, that’s true. You have a right to stand up for what you believe, though you should always do it compassionately. I’ve noticed, however, that the last few threads started on the topic of homosexuality were started by you. When folks who disagree with you join a thread you started, you certainly can’t blame them for starting it.
They believe in the presence of the Holy Spirit and seek blessing from God. I’d say that’s more of a good start than an unforgivable tragedy. We have a choice then: we can tell them how disordered we think they are, how evil we think their actions are, what “derelicts” we believe them to be, or we can show them how and why the Church offers those who seek Christ, even those with a homosexual orientation, a path to do so that is fulfilling and beautiful. Isn’t the best option there obvious?
Bucket,
You took this statement out of the context in which it was stated as it is not part of the thread from which other comments were taken…do you believe that this is the way to portray your opinion?
We should have threads “which homosexuals and other derelicts are incurable”…that may aid your concern.
C
CopticChristian
Guest
Kolbe,This is the kind of language that does not, has not, and will never work.
This statement was taken out of context…
You and other Catholics should review this…as it appears that those that say…no therapy has ever been proven scientifically that Homosexuals cannot change have not read this…We should have threads “which homosexuals and other derelicts are incurable”…that may aid your concern.
catholiceducation.org/articles/sexuality/ho0039.html
Those promoting the idea that sexual orientation is immutable frequently quote from a published discussion between Dr. C.C. Tripp and Dr. Lawrence Hatterer in which Dr. Tripp stated: “… there is not a single recorded instance of a change in homosexual orientation which has been validated by outside judges or testing. Kinsey wasn’t able to find one. And neither Dr. Pomeroy nor I have been able to find such a patient. We would be happy to have one from Dr. Hatterer.” (Tripp & Hatterer 1971) They fail to reference Dr. Hatterer response:
“I have ‘cured’ many homosexuals, Dr. Tripp. Dr. Pomeroy or any other researcher may examine my work because it is all documented on 10 years of tape recordings. Many of these ‘cured’ (I prefer to use the word ‘changed’) patients have married, had families and live happy lives. It is a destructive myth that 'once a homosexual, always a homosexual.” It has made and will make millions more committed homosexuals. What is more, not only have I but many other reputable psychiatrists (Dr. Samuel B. Hadden, Dr. Lionel Ovesey, Dr. Charles Socarides, Dr. Harold Lief, Dr. Irving Bieber, and others) have reported their successful treatments of the treatable homosexual." (Tripp & Hatterer 1971)
A number of therapists have written extensively on the positive results of therapy for same-sex attraction. Tripp chose to ignore the large body of literature on treatment and surveys of therapists. Reviews of treatment for unwanted same-sex attractions shows that it is as successful as treatment for similar psychological problems: about 30% experience a freedom from symptoms and another 30% experience improvement. (Bieber 1962: Clippinger 1974: Fine 1987: Kaye 1967: MacIntosh 1994: Marmor 1965: Nicolosi 2000: Rogers 1976: Satinover 1996: Throckmorton: West)
Reports from individual therapists have been equally positive. (Barnhouse 1977: Bergler 1962: Bieber 1979: Cappon 1960: Caprio 1954: Ellis 1956: Hadden 1958: Hadden 1967b: Hadfield 1958: Hatterer 1970: Kronemeyer 1989 , Nicolosi 1991) This is only a representative sampling of the therapists who report successful results in the treating of individuals experiencing same-sex attractions.
There are also numerous autobiographical reports from men and women who once believed themselves to be unchangeably bound by same-sex attractions and behaviors. Many of these men and women (Exodus 1990-2000) now describe themselves as free of same-sex attraction, fantasy, and behavior. Most of these individuals found freedom through participation in religion based support groups, although some also had recourse to therapists. Unfortunately, a number of influential persons and professional groups ignore this evidence (APA 1997: Herek 1991) and there seems to be a concerted effort on the part of “homosexual apologists” to deny the effectiveness of treatment of same-sex attraction or claim that such treatment is harmful. Barnhouse expressed wonderment at these efforts: “The distortion of reality inherent in the denials by homosexual apologists that the condition is curable is so immense that one wonders what motivates it.”(Barnhouse 1977)
Tripp, C. Hatterer, L. (1971) Can homosexuals change with Psychotherapy? Sexual Behavior. 1, 4: 42 - 49.Robert Spitzer, M.D., the renowned Columbia University psychiatric researcher, who was directly involved in the 1973 decision to remove homosexuality from the American Psychiatric Association’s list of mental disorders, has recently become involved with research the possibility of change. Dr. Spitzer stated in an interview: “I am convinced that many people have made substantial changes toward becoming heterosexual…I think that’s news… I came to this study skeptical. I now claim that these changes can be sustained.” (Spitzer 2000).
and more seen at the end of the article…
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