Which Homosexuals Are "Incurable"?

[speakttruth]

Detroit,

You do have an active imagination, as do I. I imagine that anyone knowing anything about the world can imagine whatever it is to imagine and understand that when discussing something descriptors tend to be judgmental…

Homosexual acts are sinful…should be quite enough. How do we teach that? We say that they are sinful, we point out why they are sinful and we try to be Charitable in that approach. I fail sometimes here however in the context of providing understanding fewer words may be useful.

I understand Detroit’s frustration and it can be repulsive. It is justifiable anger and I do get upset when it comes to the world influencing my son to stay in a life or even other people who agree with that life out of pity. But when I actually started going to the conferences of Courage and seeing so many men come out of that life and still struggle with SSA, I realized I wasn’t looking at the person, I was just focusing on the actions. No one chooses to feel SSA, the ones that actually have this and where ever it leads them, hopefully to Christ, they will have become a stronger man because of this cross. Hero’s in the kingdom of God. It’s a heavier cross for most of them who still feel that temptation because of past mistakes of acting out or when their hormones are raging. It’s not the same as heterosexual. It’s worse because some have no hopes of ever feeling like they are going to have a wife and a family the way God intended and many want them.
I no longer feel that anger toward the individuals, since I know what it feels like to have a child that I wouldn’t want people to hate. I just have to continue to lead people to Christ in a charitable way, in which we still love, but in truth and keep my own salvation in check.

I would rather focus on the leaders who are leading people to sin. Many of them are not just living as homosexuals, they are pedophiles. I don’t know if anyone has heard of Church Militant.TV, but Michael Voris, a revert himself, did an excellent job explaining a report he likes to call FBI on homosexuality. He brings you back to the beginning when the movement started and to now and does mention Courage. Just my thoughts
GB

 

[down_under]

Grace & Peace!

Second, I’m not trying to convince the RCC to change her teachings–if I were, I wouldn’t spend so much time here on these forums! I’m trying to better understand those teachings as well as the sort of life a Roman Catholic same-sex attracted person faithful to those teachings is asked to live.

Personally, though, the thing I find most curious about the teaching is that it seems to understand same-sex attraction as being about homosexual sexual activity as opposed to being about attraction to someone of the same sex. That seems odd and not quite accurate to me. Surely anyone who sees another person as merely instrumental in the performance of an act or repertoire of acts to which they’re actually attracted is, indeed, in a bit of moral trouble regardless of their sexual orientation.

curious perhaps but accurate. think about it this way. nobody tells a person who is predisposed to colon cancer they are evil. They do however tell them how bad cancer is and that they should go for scans every few years as they get older just in case.

The churchs teaching on SSA is very much like there teaching on heterosexuality or sexuality in general. They are not saying that having a natural attraction to skinny blondes is bad. The Church is saying if you allow this attraction to consume your life in vain actions without regard for the general purpose of the union (or the good/needs of the partner in question) bad things are going to happen. The first thing you must understand about sin in Christianity is that sin is not sin because God said so. It is sin because there are moral and temporal consequences for these actions.

The biggest piece of censorship in the modern day is the death toll among the SSA male population to AIDS. Go look up the figures at the CDC.

In 2009, the estimated number of deaths of persons with an AIDS diagnosis in the United States and 6 U.S. dependent areas was 18,234. In the 50 states and the District of Columbia, this included 17,770 adults and adolescents, and 4 children aged less than 13 years at death.

The cumulative estimated number of deaths of persons with an AIDS diagnosis in the United States and 6 U.S. dependent areas, through 2009, was 641,976. In the 50 states and the District of Columbia, this included 614,394 adults and adolescents, and 4,986 children aged less than 13 years at death.
cdc.gov/hiv/topics/surveillance/basic.htm#ddaids

This is an unprecedented tragedy. when you factor in the figures from the government that only 2-4% of the population suffer SSA this becomes akin to genocide.

consider this found under transmission categories on the same page.

male to male contact counted for 28782 new cases diagnosed in 2010 male to female contact accounted for 4416 in males and 8459 in females
but the same organization estimated the SSA population to be no more than 4% in 2010. just doing the numbers shows that you cannot underestimate the tragedy currently underway in the SSA community among men.

and that is just one category of the spiritual and temporal consequences of acting on SSA tendencies.

 

[speakttruth]

curious perhaps but accurate. think about it this way. nobody tells a person who is predisposed to colon cancer they are evil. They do however tell them how bad cancer is and that they should go for scans every few years as they get older just in case.

The churchs teaching on SSA is very much like there teaching on heterosexuality or sexuality in general. They are not saying that having a natural attraction to skinny blondes is bad. The Church is saying if you allow this attraction to consume your life in vain actions without regard for the general purpose of the union (or the good/needs of the partner in question) bad things are going to happen. The first thing you must understand about sin in Christianity is that sin is not sin because God said so. It is sin because there are moral and temporal consequences for these actions.

The biggest piece of censorship in the modern day is the death toll among the SSA male population to AIDS. Go look up the figures at the CDC.

In 2009, the estimated number of deaths of persons with an AIDS diagnosis in the United States and 6 U.S. dependent areas was 18,234. In the 50 states and the District of Columbia, this included 17,770 adults and adolescents, and 4 children aged less than 13 years at death.

The cumulative estimated number of deaths of persons with an AIDS diagnosis in the United States and 6 U.S. dependent areas, through 2009, was 641,976. In the 50 states and the District of Columbia, this included 614,394 adults and adolescents, and 4,986 children aged less than 13 years at death.
cdc.gov/hiv/topics/surveillance/basic.htm#ddaids

This is an unprecedented tragedy. when you factor in the figures from the government that only 2-4% of the population suffer SSA this becomes akin to genocide.

consider this found under transmission categories on the same page.

male to male contact counted for 28782 new cases diagnosed in 2010 male to female contact accounted for 4416 in males and 8459 in females
but the same organization estimated the SSA population to be no more than 4% in 2010. just doing the numbers shows that you cannot underestimate the tragedy currently underway in the SSA community among men.

and that is just one category of the spiritual and temporal consequences of acting on SSA tendencies.

The fact is that sin is death and the more we sin the more we die.
We need to get the facts out about the CDC and not just the message to not to redefine marriage. People don’t think of it in terms of putting a loved one in danger of death by enabling the behavior out of pity. They need to see how it’s killing more than helping to agree and accept that lifestyle that is all about feelings and not reality. May God help us!
GB

 

[CopticChristian]

The fact is that sin is death and the more we sin the more we die.
We need to get the facts out about the CDC and not just the message to not to redefine marriage. People don’t think of it in terms of putting a loved one in danger of death by enabling the behavior out of pity. They need to see how it’s killing more than helping to agree and accept that lifestyle that is all about feelings and not reality. May God help us!
GB

Truth,

In the context of this thread it is clear that based on this and the last post, there are homosexuals that are incorrigible despite the negative consequences of their action indicating the significant adherence to a belief that does not serve them well.

 

[Maxirad]

I don’t know if anyone has heard of Church Militant.TV, but Michael Voris, a revert himself, did an excellent job explaining a report he likes to call FBI on homosexuality. He brings you back to the beginning when the movement started and to now and does mention Courage. Just my thoughts
GB

I know which video you’re thinking of, speakttruth. Unfortunately, I don’t feel comfortable posting a link to it here on CAF. There is at least one part that can be seen as an attack on Catholic clergy.

 

[speakttruth]

I know which video you’re thinking of, speakttruth. Unfortunately, I don’t feel comfortable posting a link to it here on CAF. There is at least one part that can be seen as an attack on Catholic clergy.

I don’t think he attacks the position of clergy and such, but the people in it who have taken advantage of the flock. I think he just tells it like it is and doesn’t sugar coat it and keeps us informed. When I am fighting a battle, I don’t want soft, I want tough and he knows his faith. Some people don’t like the hard message. Were fighting the devil and he has brought down a lot of Catholics. Let’s face it, we are in mess and we have disobedient clergy, religious and bishops, unfortunately, that have brought us here. Judas was one, example. Their are many good informed sites and each has there own way of preaching the gospel. I like the site of Courageous priest too.

GB

 

[speakttruth]

Truth,

In the context of this thread it is clear that based on this and the last post, there are homosexuals that are incorrigible despite the negative consequences of their action indicating the significant adherence to a belief that does not serve them well.

Ok,
I had to look up that word, don’t make fun of me.
Yes I agree many are incorrigible and that’s why we need to pray more.
GB

 

[epan]

Which Homosexuals Are “Incurable”?

I guess that depends on their medical condition.

 

[down_under]

I must have made a good argument. I thought for sure there would be a flaming revenge coming my way. Usually anger is the response to this information. Instead I got no response. I hope someone read those stats and took them to heart.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

I must have made a good argument. I thought for sure there would be a flaming revenge coming my way. Usually anger is the response to this information. Instead I got no response. I hope someone read those stats and took them to heart.

Or maybe they just cringed and moved on because it wasn’t worth their time to address the flaws in the analysis.

 

[down_under]

Or maybe they just cringed and moved on because it wasn’t worth their time to address the flaws in the analysis.

Oh well then perhaps as you are so enlightened you will explain said logical flaws to us. Because I don’t see any. And no one else has yet posted that there is any flaw in this analysis. So go ahead sir and make specific objections. Make a logical argument and lets see if it stands up to scrutiny.

 

[epan]

I must have made a good argument. I thought for sure there would be a flaming revenge coming my way. Usually anger is the response to this information. Instead I got no response. I hope someone read those stats and took them to heart.

I just reviewed your posting. What was the argument?

 

[aprilfloyd]

Just to make it clear, it is totally impossible he’ll become straight. Prayer cannot change biology. Accept him for who he is and openly discuss your lives with each other as siblings should.

God bless.

 

[down_under]

I just reviewed your posting. What was the argument?

In short sin is not sin because God said so (which suggests it might change with Gods mood this is a Muslim idea) but because it has spiritual and temporal consequences. Then I go on to list the horrific consequences hiv and aids are dishing out on the SSA people who participate in this lifestyle.

Someone has suggested there is a rebuttal to the self imposed holocaust of the SSA portion of society (particularly the men as these stats bear out). Stay tuned or perhaps suggest yourself how this argument is somehow incorrect or absurd. I don’t see how AIDS is absurd.

 

[down_under]

There is no factual evidence you can give to suggest it is a biological problem. It is not a genetic problem as far a science can tell us. There is no SSA gene. We have mapped the genome.

 

[epan]

In short sin is not sin because God said so (which suggests it might change with Gods mood this is a Muslim idea) but because it has spiritual and temporal consequences. Then I go on to list the horrific consequences hiv and aids are dishing out on the SSA people who participate in this lifestyle.

Someone has suggested there is a rebuttal to the self imposed holocaust of the SSA portion of society (particularly the men as these stats bear out). Stay tuned or perhaps suggest yourself how this argument is somehow incorrect or absurd. I don’t see how AIDS is absurd.

HIV transmission is not restricted to gay people. In some parts of the world, the population is largely gay. In other parts of the world, it is largely straight. How do you account for that?

 

[down_under]

HIV transmission is not restricted to gay people. In some parts of the world, the population is largely gay. In other parts of the world, it is largely straight. How do you account for that?

okay so you did not read anything that I posted. In 2010 there were 4500 cases of HIV detected in 96% of the population and 29000 cases detected in 4% (the SSA portion specifically male). HIV is a plague on promiscuous people (another sin that has serious temporal consequences) but among the active SSA male population it is a holocaust. do the math there the relative risk for SSA active males to contract HIV is absolutely astronomical. you are hundreds of times more likely. This is just 1 consequence of promiscuity. The fact that the SSA male problem is so much worse. If this were a way of transmitting bird flu the practice would already be banned or treated like smoking due to the massive adverse health risk. What is so hard to understand about this.

 

[epan]

okay so you did not read anything that I posted. In 2010 there were 4500 cases of HIV detected in 96% of the population and 29000 cases detected in 4% (the SSA portion specifically male). HIV is a plague on promiscuous people (another sin that has serious temporal consequences) but among the active SSA male population it is a holocaust. do the math there the relative risk for SSA active males to contract HIV is absolutely astronomical. you are hundreds of times more likely. This is just 1 consequence of promiscuity. The fact that the SSA male problem is so much worse. If this were a way of transmitting bird flu the practice would already be banned or treated like smoking due to the massive adverse health risk. What is so hard to understand about this.

Yes, I did read what you wrote. You did not do your research. I am not an epidemiologist, but I do have some knowledge of disease transmission and the nature of pandemics, such as the HIV/AIDS pandemic.

Your conclusions are wrong. In sub-saharan Africa, 60% of HIV infected people are heterosexual females, for example. If you don’t believe me, check the UN and WHO statistics on the disease. They are readily available. There are 10’s of millions of people worldwide living with HIV. The nature of the pandemic varies geographically, racially, and culturally.

Further, you have no idea what the actual MSM population is. Nobody does. The estimates range from 2% (conservative think tanks) to 10% (Kinsey) for primarily gay, with estimate ranging from rather lowish to nearly 30+% (which I think is very high), for MSM behavior on a sporadic basis. The exact numbers are not known.

Furthermore, genetics may play a role. Asians appear to be far less likely to be infected, than are Africans. Cultural practices count too. Transmission rates are much higher with uncircumcised men over circumcised men. Are all of these risk factors somehow God’s judgement?

Please be more careful. You are making conclusions which are false, based on what is known. You are making assumptions based on what is unknown.

 

[speakttruth]

HIV transmission is not restricted to gay people. In some parts of the world, the population is largely gay. In other parts of the world, it is largely straight. How do you account for that?

oh my goodness, aids started with homosexuality, rectal chlamydia is a homosexual disease exclusively in the homosexual population back when it started, which the activists don’t like to admit…
Just how do you think the women in Africa get aids? The men are having sex with men and then with women and transmitting it to them. If women and men don’t have sex out side of marriage they don’t get Aids unless someone gave them blood that had the disease.
It was well know it started from homosexuality. We can’t have Immoral sex and unnatural sex without getting the consequences. That is why the Aids still is advancing and STD’s are growing They aren’t even using protection and now we have bug chasers who are deliberately trying to contract aids and then deliberately trying to give someone aids out of sexual satisfaction. It is a depraved activity which we are all suffering the consequences for in this society.
God help us!

 

[speakttruth]

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaldobyzantine
Just to make it clear, it is totally impossible he’ll become straight. Prayer cannot change biology. Accept him for who he is and openly discuss your lives with each other as siblings should.

God bless.

Accept him for what? Who is he? So 100 percent of all people with SSA can not change? Are these facts? So they should all just give up? For in Christ we become a new creation.
God works at his own pace, not ours.
GB