Which Homosexuals Are "Incurable"?

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Deo_Volente said:
Grace & Peace!

I’m very glad that you have a loving and happy family and that your experience of God’s grace has had a profound effect on your life.

I’m curious, though–do you considered yourself “cured” even though you appear to deal with unwanted attractions or tendencies on a daily basis?

Under the Mercy,
Mark

All is Grace and Mercy! Deo Gratias!
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Mark, thank you for your post. Yes, actually I consider myself ‘cured’ of my prior weakness of yielding to my sexual tendencies. By God’s grace, it seems the natural consequence of the above that one experiences fewer and fewer temptations. I see what your point is: am I cured of the weakness or homosexuality itself. I cannot answer this, I’m not even sure whether this matters as long as my tendencies don’t separate me from Jesus. After all, we don’t choose our attractions. All we have to decide is what to do with the cross that is given to us. Sorry if it sounds a bit Gandalf-like. I’m a Tolkien geek 🙂 Don’t think I fancy McKellen though.

God bless!
 
Marcin_L said:
Mark, thank you for your post. Yes, actually I consider myself ‘cured’ of my prior weakness of yielding to my sexual tendencies. By God’s grace, it seems the natural consequence of the above that one experiences fewer and fewer temptations. I see what your point is: am I cured of the weakness or homosexuality itself. I cannot answer this, I’m not even sure whether this matters as long as my tendencies don’t separate me from Jesus. After all, we don’t choose our attractions. All we have to decide is what to do with the cross that is given to us. Sorry if it sounds a bit Gandalf-like. I’m a Tolkien geek 🙂 Don’t think I fancy McKellen though.

God bless!
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Marcin,

The question more likely than not is to suggest either you are not cured or you were never homosexual. Continue to decide what to do with your thoughts and feelings.
 
CopticChristian said:
Marcin,

Blessings on your life. I believe that to say you changed your thinking that caused you to change your actions with the grace of God brought you joy. I am not a fan of cure…

If you believe you changed your thinking, that changed your actions…then understand that in your mind all you have are thoughts and feelings and if you can change your thinking then you can change the feelings you associate with whatever you see in the world…this you can take to the bank…
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Thanks for your post. I would replace the word ‘thinking’ with ‘reacting to God’s will’ and then it’s 100% what I meant 🙂

God bless!
 
Marcin_L said:
Thanks for your post. I would replace the word ‘thinking’ with ‘reacting to God’s will’ and then it’s 100% what I meant 🙂

God bless!
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Marcin,

Then you are on track with Church teaching and if you have not read Veritatis Splendor you should and there you will find what true Freedom is.🙂
 
CopticChristian said:
Marcin,

Then you are on track with Church teaching and if you have not read Veritatis Splendor you should and there you will find what true Freedom is.🙂
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Thank you, I am familliar with Veritatis Splendor, probably not as much as I’d like to. It wonderfully touches on the compatibility of freedom and Divine Law, also pointing out that human freedom cannot be seen as an absolute in itself.
I very much agree.
Many thanks for good words.
God bless!
 
epan said:
You are correct in saying that the only way to be 100% certain of zero risk for HIV (and all other STD) infection is abstinence…
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This was all great information I read the whole thing you would be happy to know this is HIV/AIDS 101 in school now and here is the big problem.

anal sex passes the disease faster then any other method we know of.
b, any method of protection that has less then 100% does not help. Condoms are the most notable example. They are booked by many as SAFE SEX how do you like that. They are not 100%, but people use them like they are. Which means they have dramatically more sex a bit more indiscriminately then they other wise would have but they we being safe. And lets not forget the human component to this particular method. “I won’t use it this one time” all it takes. No telling them they can be safe only sets them up in a poor mindset and leads directly to the spread of the disease. Its sad to be sure. It is tragic. no its not as bad as it is in africa.

Here is the big one though. Saying we can fix it with drugs (as my lecturer admited to 100 students) only means we can keep the rich alive. The poor will die like everyone else who does not live in relative prosperity. 21000 deaths a year to AIDS attests to that.
 
Marcin_L said:
Thank you, I am familliar with Veritatis Splendor, probably not as much as I’d like to. It wonderfully touches on the compatibility of freedom and Divine Law, also pointing out that human freedom cannot be seen as an absolute in itself.
I very much agree.
Many thanks for good words.
God bless!
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Marcin,

I will also suggest you get hold of the Audio Catechism USA for adults and listen to it as often as you can…it will change & transform your mind and if you recall…

We are called to repent=change our mind and we are called not to be transformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind…I am sure you have heard…

GIGA

Garbage in/Garbage out…

When you fill your head with this you will formulate your thinking as the Catechism is ordered…

Profession of Faith
Sacramental Life
Life in Christ
Prayer…

You will find in time that all your responses to any question will be referencing these 4 segments and you will find your life transformed…when that happens you will discover that the only thing you need to change anyone else, is to change yourself…🙂
 
CopticChristian said:
Marcin,

I will also suggest you get hold of the Audio Catechism USA for adults and listen to it as often as you can…it will change & transform your mind and if you recall…

We are called to repent=change our mind and we are called not to be transformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind…I am sure you have heard…

GIGA

Garbage in/Garbage out…

When you fill your head with this you will formulate your thinking as the Catechism is ordered…

Profession of Faith
Sacramental Life
Life in Christ
Prayer…

You will find in time that all your responses to any question will be referencing these 4 segments and you will find your life transformed…when that happens you will discover that the only thing you need to change anyone else, is to change yourself…🙂
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Lots of interesting things to meditate on 🙂 Thank you. As for the Audio Catechism USA, it might be difficult as I’m in the UK. Will see what I can do.
God bless!
 
down_under said:
This was all great information I read the whole thing you would be happy to know this is HIV/AIDS 101 in school now and here is the big problem.

anal sex passes the disease faster then any other method we know of.
b, any method of protection that has less then 100% does not help. Condoms are the most notable example. They are booked by many as SAFE SEX how do you like that. They are not 100%, but people use them like they are. Which means they have dramatically more sex a bit more indiscriminately then they other wise would have but they we being safe. And lets not forget the human component to this particular method. “I won’t use it this one time” all it takes. No telling them they can be safe only sets them up in a poor mindset and leads directly to the spread of the disease. Its sad to be sure. It is tragic. no its not as bad as it is in africa.

Here is the big one though. Saying we can fix it with drugs (as my lecturer admited to 100 students) only means we can keep the rich alive. The poor will die like everyone else who does not live in relative prosperity. 21000 deaths a year to AIDS attests to that.
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Most of medicine and most public and personal health decisions are not 100% certainties of anything. It is a cost benefit ratio.

Anal sex is not the fastest known way to spread a pathogen. You might want to revisit that claim, too.
 
speakttruth said:
Please read your Catechism, and learn what the church teaches instead of what the world is pushing. Homosexuality is not normal and not natural and far from it according to God.
He did not make Adam and Steve. This is why we are in so much trouble in this church. We are not Cafeteria Catholics that can pick and choose what we want to believe.
God help us!
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I appreciate the position that the church teaches - but that does not make it right. Homosexuality is normal and is very natural - that is evolutionary biology at work. Invoking a god - to make an argument to the contrary does not change human biology or physiology.
I don’t think humans do pick and choose what they believe, we have a system where we explore and test hypotheses on a continual basis to determine what is factual and verifiable as such.
 
epan said:
Hehe. You might one or two people here who would beg to differ with that statement.
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I will not bother to comment on that statement, since that is purely his opinion with no foundation so there is no reason to refute it. However, I must address this:
aprilfloyd said:
Homosexuality is normal and is very natural - that is evolutionary biology at work.
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Homosexuality is against the natural law. If you know anything about biology, you would know that. It is completely against the normal purpose of our sexual organs; it doesn’t fit with them at all. To claim otherwise is to be ignorant of nature, biology, and common sense.
 
down_under said:
No I have to say you are quite mistaken here. (and quite possibly because you are too close to the subject matter to objectively comment) science disagrees with you. People have been changing there orientation for years with quite a bit of success. Some fail this is true. Some go back to the bottle and the cigarettes as well. Some put the weight back on and some light up the 8 ball that don’t mean it is not possible to change. The fact of the matter is it does happen and can be done, but won’t be done if the attempt is not honestly made by a person who wants to change. When people who want to change are given the help the need the success rates are as high as for any other addictive habit. However, to suggest a dividing line by which one can decide which ones can and cannot change.
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I think you are wrong to say that the reason people can’t change their orientation is because they don’t want to. Thats not only dangerous but also lacks real evidence.
 
aprilfloyd said:
I appreciate the position that the church teaches - but that does not make it right. Homosexuality is normal and is very natural - that is evolutionary biology at work. Invoking a god - to make an argument to the contrary does not change human biology or physiology.
I don’t think humans do pick and choose what they believe, we have a system where we explore and test hypotheses on a continual basis to determine what is factual and verifiable as such.
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In terms of spiritual truth though, teaching of the Catholic Church is more binding than human ability to “explore and test hypotheses on a continual basis to determine what is factual and verifiable as such”. Also, I don’t clearly see what you mean by “evolutionary biology at work”; evolution does not normally lead to an extinction, does it? Unless you see homosexualism as a punishment for sins of humanity, which might be quite a gloomy concept 🙂

(By the way, shouldn’t it be God with a capital? Just saying this as you state you are a Catholic.)

God bless!
 
Linux said:
I think you are wrong to say that the reason people can’t change their orientation is because they don’t want to. Thats not only dangerous but also lacks real evidence.
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I’m the living evidence (see previous post) 🙂

God bless!
 
Marcin_L said:
I’m the living evidence (see previous post) 🙂

God bless!
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Marcin, the point i am trying to make is that there are many devout Christians that are chaste and nevertheless experience what society calls homosexual attraction. So i don’t think its fair to say that its “their fault” why they can’t change their orientation. This is not to say however that it is not logically possible to change ones orientation; but it clearly isn’t in everyones power to do so. I don’t think its fair to assume otherwise without genuine evidence.
 
Linux said:
Marcin, the point i am trying to make is that there are many devout Christians that are chaste and nevertheless experience what society calls homosexual attraction. So i don’t think its fair to say that its “their fault” why they can’t change their orientation. This is not to say however that it is not logically possible to change ones orientation; but it clearly isn’t in everyones power to do so. I don’t think its fair to assume otherwise without genuine evidence.
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Linux, sorry I misunderstood your point. I agree that it may be impossible to CHANGE one’s orientation. It if perfectly feasible to ‘keep it under control’ though and not let it separate you from God. Agreed 🙂
 
Linux said:
I think you are wrong to say that the reason people can’t change their orientation is because they don’t want to. Thats not only dangerous but also lacks real evidence.
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It is an absolute verifiable certainty that if a person does not want to change they will not. I apologies if I made it sound like this is the only reason for lack of change. Much like the bottle some can’t change. Many of those however do make meetings and have a lot of success at staying chaste. Sometimes it goes away by itself. The orientation just naturally changes without any outside purposeful influence. This was born out in the Mark Regnerus study. This has nothing to do with the way he added up his numbers. The simple fact is he found most of the people interviewed found that there parents went back to heterosexual relations or came from and then went back to heterosexual relations after a number of years.
 
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